Hit and run - four months in jail and no deportation
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If you were born in GB, spent 90% of your time in the UK before you were 16 then you would be considered born and bred in my book.
Your ancestry might not be so though..0 -
William the Conquerer was my dad. Oh, hang on...0
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bails87 wrote:
I think you'll find in most cases they're leaving their country to avoid persecution and a very real threat of death.
I suppose when you only see people as money-grabbing leeches coming here for the (pretty meagre) handouts, it's easy to complain. If you see them as people trying to avoid being murdered by their own corrupt government.....well, it helps you see them as human beings rather than a drain on your finances I suppose.
Lets bring this back to the person in question shall we, we're generalising big time here.
If the man in question was fleeing persecution and possible death for no apparent reason then fine I am all up for giving the man a place to lead a life however when he comes over here and takes the complete p*ss with his string of offences then clearly he isn't a man bothered about fleeing for his life, if you were you'd sure as hell make the effort to put back in to the society that is giving you safe haven.
Perhaps he fled his county because he commited various crimes and was going to face the death penalty? Then best he go back and face the consequences if thats the case because I dont want the cheesewand over here.0 -
Everybody has to be put in their own box.
How very stone ageFormally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
bails87 wrote:
If every one of them is on asylum seekers support for a year, then yes, but are they? I honestly don't know btw.Pudseyp wrote:Ok....in 2009 over 30,000 adult asylum seekers applied for applications to remain in the UK...so as you have told me £47 x30,000 =£1,141,000 per week = £73,320,000 per year....
Are these the immigrants who have to do 12 months work here before they're entitled to any out-of-work benefits?and that is just asylum seekers and does not include imigrants
Benefits galore? Fine that's your opinion. You keep giving me hyperbole when I'm using actual (real) numbers.....so yes I am a bit pi$$sed of that I pay my taxes that I work hard for when the UK gives hundreds of millions away, and then if there application is accepted, benefits galore !!!
Real numbers...my arsehole....the numbers above are from the national statistics, whom I am sure know alot more than you do,,,,,no....imigrants from the EU can claim benefits (see link in my earlier post).....benefits galore....if you think the country can aford hundreds of millions your dafter than I thought.....can't remember if your ar student..if so when you grow up and start earning and giving away a third of your salary and still think our open armed approach is great, then good on you...perhaps you can open a soup kitchen as you obviously feel that strongly for them......0 -
BUT DA BABY ANGLES!!!!Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0
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bails87 wrote:CraigXXL wrote:Please don't think this is the only cost to the country as illegal or not they still make use of Health Service, Education System as well a further drain on the police and local council resources.
No, no, no, no, no! Overall, immigrants contribute MORE to the public purse than "born and bred" british citizens. There's only so many times I can keep repeating facts whilst being slapped in the face with tabloid/bloke-daan-the-pub-told-me nonsense. I *think* they're less likely to be in trouble with the police than us natives too, but I can't remember the source for that so I won't state it as fact.
Most immigrants, especially those due to the EU, are young men. They tend to be healthy (so no health spending) they don't have kids (no schools), they come here, work, pay a load of tax, then go home to have a family, get old etc.
As for the guy in the OP. Yep, he's a peice of sh*t. And he should be in jail. 4 months for killing someone is appallingly short.
Nothing like twisting what I said in reply to PudseyP's comment about the figures of £47 x number of immigrants been the cost. I know that immigrants contribute to the economy but they are also a drain to on the countrys resources. The actual gain to the economy is probably minimal when you account for everything. Like most statistics they are manipulated to fit the statement at the time by the government in power saying how good it is to the local government at the same time stating they can't cope with the influx of immigrants and their demand on the services.
Anyone coming to this country should treat it with respect. In the same way if I visited your home and took a dump in your living room you would soon kick me out if I had somewhere to go or not, then the same should apply to anyone coming to this country too.
Asylum is a very abused word and people will lie to get into this country, they will destroy any identification to make it difficult to prove which country they have come from as well as lie about their age to avoid so they can't be deported. All this uses up the resources needed to care and provide for those who do need asylum.0 -
bails87 wrote:
No, no, no, no, no! Overall, immigrants contribute MORE to the public purse than "born and bred" british citizens.
Ummmmm I would like to question your rationale on this....where are the facts ?? because I think your talking bollocks...0 -
I think he means per person and I can believe it. UK people will at some point use the benefits system (from signing on to claiming cold weather payment). A lot of economic migrants come to UK from the EU, work for a few years and go back. Bare in mind they can't claim for anything for 12 months. Most are happy to do this as they have no intention of living in a crap hole of a country (that happens to pay better than most others in Europe). The wife worked with a load of such people (from places like Germany, France and Holland) and was fascinating to hear them talking about how they'd be gone in a flash if they could have done that job back home. And before you start crying "BUT DAY IS STEALIN OUR JOBS!!" I'd ask you to tell me just how many people in this country (good ol' fashioned "whiteys") can speak another language?
It's all about the skillset that companies are looking for. So pipe down man. You're talking utter pish (seriously!! Some of these comments look straight from a Daily Mail comments section...and we all know how full of crap those sections are)Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
bails87 wrote:As for the guy in the OP. Yep, he's a peice of sh*t. And he should be in jail. 4 months for killing someone is appallingly short.
Jeezo. He wasn't convicted of killing someone. Pay attention up the back.Rhyl wrote:there's nothing daft about it at all.
if your sole reasons for seeking asylum are to prevent persecution, you would go to the nearest place you could to get away from it.
What I mean is, the burden shouldn't be stuck on the nearest countries. If there was suddenly a million asylum seekers from the republic of ireland would you think it's OK that britain would get stuck with them all or do you think it'd be fair enough for some to end up in Germany?
We had a family of Iranian asylum seekers down the road, they were supposed to be going to Austria- they had family there. They didn't speak english at all, got more or less loaded onto a plane by their "agent", wasn't til they got stopped by immigration that they found out they were in the UK. They were pretty pissed off but it's hard to get a refund off people traffickers.
Incidentally the number of asylum seekers is falling in the UK and has been pretty consistently since 2002.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Pudseyp wrote:Ummmmm I would like to question your rationale on this....where are the facts ?? because I think your talking bollocks...
Nah, it's true. There was a hilarious study from Immigration Watch a couple of years ago (an anti-immigration group) which set out to prove the cost of immigration then eventually even they had to admit that there's a net benefit. So they had to quickly change their tune from IMMIGRANTS COST US TOO MUCH to IMMIGRANTS DON'T MAKES US ENOUGH PROFIT.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind
Shhh, I know he wasn't conveicted of killing her, but I'm trying to keep some credibility with the DM types.
PudseyP I posted the link a few pages back.Immigrants, including refugees, pay more into the public purse compared to their UK born counterparts. (Institute for Public Policy Research, Paying their way: the fiscal contribution of immigrants in the UK, 2005)
And no, your numbers weren't from the ONS, you took the number of asylum seekers in 2008 from that, and then assumed that they all claimed benefit for a whole year, which may well be a wild overestimate. IT doesn't show ho wmany were in the country then, just how many arrived. The fact that 65,000 were deported in the same time as 30,000 arrived means some probably weren't here for a full year. If you have some actual numbers, not ones you've made up, then yeah, I'll accept them, but if you're making things up because the truth doesn't match up to what you've read in the tabloids then you start to lose a fair bit of credibility.
Also "when you get a job"? Don't patronise me, thankyou very much. I'm not a student, I was (then I got my Economics degree, that involved a fair bit on immigration and stats and a presentation to a professor at St Andrews and the Governemnt Economic Servce on the effect of migration) and now I work.
I was reading about a state of mind people enter where they get so annoyed that someone has proven them wrong that they become even more entrenched in their (incorerct) beliefs as a kind of defence mechanism. They refute any evidence against them as lies, but take anything that supports their view, no matter how small, as gospel..... Full Text and Summary
It's quite interesting to see that in action, but at the same time it's a shame that so many people believe this stuff.people who placed themselves ideologically to the right of center, the correction wasn’t just ineffective, it actively backfired: conservatives who received a correction telling them that Iraq did not have WMD were more likely to believe that Iraq had WMD than people who were given no correction at all0 -
theres a massive difference between offering to share the load if there is a sudden human rights issue in a country who needs the help of the civlised world and a fuckload of johnny foreigners tipping up at dover for a bit of free lunch and a million of benefits.Northwind wrote:If there was suddenly a million asylum seekers from the republic of ireland would you think it's OK that britain would get stuck with them all or do you think it'd be fair enough for some to end up in Germany?0 -
Rhyl wrote:
theres a massive difference between offering to share the load if there is a sudden human rights issue in a country who needs the help of the civlised world and a fuckload of johnny foreigners tipping up at dover for a bit of free lunch and a million of benefits.Northwind wrote:If there was suddenly a million asylum seekers from the republic of ireland would you think it's OK that britain would get stuck with them all or do you think it'd be fair enough for some to end up in Germany?
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bails87 wrote:Immigrants, including refugees, pay more into the public purse compared to their UK born counterparts. (Institute for Public Policy Research, Paying their way: the fiscal contribution of immigrants in the UK, 2005)
How can this be conclusive, it's an acedemic paper that I cannot read.....what is the findings ?bails87 wrote:And no, your numbers weren't from the ONS, you took the number of asylum seekers in 2008 from that, and then assumed that they all claimed benefit for a whole year, which may well be a wild overestimate. IT doesn't show ho wmany were in the country then, just how many arrived. The fact that 65,000 were deported in the same time as 30,000 arrived means some probably weren't here for a full year. If you have some actual numbers, not ones you've made up, then yeah, I'll accept them, but if you're making things up because the truth doesn't match up to what you've read in the tabloids then you start to lose a fair bit of credibility.
The 65,000 sent back (if your numbers are true) and 30,000 arriving clearly shows that it takes so long to process these applications....so in reality they could be here for the year...also you keep quoting fact....where I have not seen any evidence...
Bails, you won't convert me thanks, I like to earn money for me rather than give it to some leech from another country that ends up here...claims asylum then brings 10 members of his family....like I have said there are enough British citizens living in poverty, lets take care of them before others.
My opinion is they should all feck off.....
Merry Christmas to you and your family and the best of health in 2011...0 -
Not sure why you can't read it, it's a publically available PDF file, and I've only had a cursory glance, but the final data shows that migrants to the UK contribute significantly more to the UK economy per capita than natives do. It shows that the migrant share of revenue is growing significantly faster than the migrant share of expenditure. It shows, basically, that you're wrong.Pudseyp wrote:bails87 wrote:Immigrants, including refugees, pay more into the public purse compared to their UK born counterparts. (Institute for Public Policy Research, Paying their way: the fiscal contribution of immigrants in the UK, 2005)
How can this be conclusive, it's an acedemic paper that I cannot read.....what is the findings ?0 -
it makes sense that immigrants contribute alot to the community, without them all of the disused petrol forecourts in the land would remain unused instead of becoming the industrious money laundering illegal immigrant hoarding businesses that they are today0
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whyamihere wrote:
Not sure why you can't read it, it's a publically available PDF file, and I've only had a cursory glance, but the final data shows that migrants to the UK contribute significantly more to the UK economy per capita than natives do. It shows that the migrant share of revenue is growing significantly faster than the migrant share of expenditure. It shows, basically, that you're wrong.Pudseyp wrote:bails87 wrote:Immigrants, including refugees, pay more into the public purse compared to their UK born counterparts. (Institute for Public Policy Research, Paying their way: the fiscal contribution of immigrants in the UK, 2005)
How can this be conclusive, it's an acedemic paper that I cannot read.....what is the findings ?
To be honest I stated Asylum Seekers....as per the OP....they cannot work untill their application has gone through the process so they are a drain on the UK finances....
Migrants (EU) can also claim benefits...they don't have to work for 12 months before they do !!0 -
sheepsteeth wrote:it makes sense that immigrants contribute alot to the community, without them all of the disused petrol forecourts in the land would remain unused instead of becoming the industrious money laundering illegal immigrant hoarding businesses that they are today 0
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Northwind wrote:Pudseyp wrote:also you keep quoting fact....where I have not seen any evidence..
You keep demanding facts, and rejecting the ones you're shown- so where are yours?
I don't...fact keeps getting posted...but I cannot see anything to back it up....
The point of the mater is they should not be here, I and am sure most of the country feel the same...0 -
Pudseyp wrote:Northwind wrote:Pudseyp wrote:also you keep quoting fact....where I have not seen any evidence..
You keep demanding facts, and rejecting the ones you're shown- so where are yours?
I don't...fact keeps getting posted...but I cannot see anything to back it up....
The point of the mater is they should not be here, I and am sure most of the country feel the same...
who are "they"? though, I can't quite get a handle on who you've got a beef with. You aren't one of those "if you're white, you're all right" types are you?
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Pudseyp wrote:
I think we should adopt a system similar to the aussie one in that if you want to come and live in the UK you must have a valued trade or a certain amount of money to bring in so you can sustain a standard of living without claiming all the benefits under the sun.
Australia takes lots of refugees. Recent Australian governments have indulged in appalling treatment of those refugees, dumping them in hell-holes like Nauru or camps like Woomera (now thankfully closed). After so appeasing the baser racist elements in Australian politics and the right-wing media, the Australian government quietly granted almost all asylum-seekers so treated refugee status and allowed them to stay.
Ticking the right boxes in the points system isn't the only way to get to live in Australia, and the country is far, far better for it. Without successive waves of migrants and refugees it'd be like Chatham in the sun.John Stevenson0 -
woodnut wrote:who are "they"? though, I can't quite get a handle on who you've got a beef with. You aren't one of those "if you're white, you're all right" types are you?
Errr no...if you have read all my posts it is mainly about asylum seeks and the UK system...both which cost us millions....what I do have a beef about is giving money and homes to such people that I have helped pay for...especially when we have poverty in our own country, lets look after our own before we worry about others...we have lost our identity and people take the pi$$, have disrespect for the country the live in (remember the demostrations calling our Army scum etc...OK not tarring them with the same brush,,but it goes on)....how can I respect someone who doesn't respect us, the country and it's laws....0 -
Pudseyp wrote:I don't...fact keeps getting posted...but I cannot see anything to back it up....
The point of the mater is they should not be here, I and am sure most of the country feel the same...
It's rather in the nature of facts that they don't need backing up because they're, you know, true. You're starting to sound like Homer Simpson: "Facts. You can use them to prove anything".
If your "they" is asylum seekers, then I'm afraid they most assuredly should be here. All signatories to the United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees have a legal obligation to deal reasonably with asylum seekers.
And you know what? I'm proud that Britain is generous enough, adult enough and a sufficiently great international citizen to provide security and hope to the desperate, displaced and terrified. And that our legal framework puts keeping a family together over the xenophobia of the mob.
Yes, that's going to mean the system sometimes gets gamed and we end up with some undesirables to go with the ones we grow ourselves and the ones people elect to local councils on the BNP ticket.
That, and the financial cost (your 70 million quid is less than the cost of five of the UK's totally pointless Trident missiles) are a tiny, tiny price to pay to live in a sane, mature and compassionate civil society.John Stevenson0 -
^ this.
especially "I'm proud that Britain is generous enough, adult enough and a sufficiently great international citizen to provide security and hope to the desperate, displaced and terrified"
Nicely put0 -
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