Hit and run - four months in jail and no deportation
Comments
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If he was a failed asylum seeker, then he would be being deported. The fact that he isn't means that, by definition, his asylum request has been granted.
We don't have to abide by any laws the EU pass. we choose to. We can refuse to pass the laws if we like, but successive governments from both sides of the political spectrum have realised that it's in our interests to go with the EU.
Next, how is it possible for an Eastern European to take your job? Do they ambush you in the car park, force a P45 into your hand and threaten your manager until he gives away your former job? No. There are, of course, low paid Eastern European migrants doing the crap jobs which allow the country to function. This is mostly because British people turn their noses up at those jobs and refuse to do them. Economic migrants pay income tax, pay VAT on everything they buy, etc. They contribute to the economy in a very substantial way.
By the way, the aid to Turkey and Spain? That's intended to grow their economies, allowing them to contribute back to the EU coffers later on. It's called an investment.0 -
whyamihere wrote:If he was a failed asylum seeker, then he would be being deported. The fact that he isn't means that, by definition, his asylum request has been granted.
We don't have to abide by any laws the EU pass. we choose to. We can refuse to pass the laws if we like, but successive governments from both sides of the political spectrum have realised that it's in our interests to go with the EU.
Next, how is it possible for an Eastern European to take your job? Do they ambush you in the car park, force a P45 into your hand and threaten your manager until he gives away your former job? No. There are, of course, low paid Eastern European migrants doing the crap jobs which allow the country to function. This is mostly because British people turn their noses up at those jobs and refuse to do them. Economic migrants pay income tax, pay VAT on everything they buy, etc. They contribute to the economy in a very substantial way.
By the way, the aid to Turkey and Spain? That's intended to grow their economies, allowing them to contribute back to the EU coffers later on. It's called an investment.
All Ibrahim's applications for asylum and citizenship had been rejected at the time of the accident.
But although he was technically awaiting deportation, he was not returned to Iraq because it was too dangerous. Just weeks before knocking down Amy outside her home in November 2003, Ibrahim had been banned for nine months for driving while disqualified and without insurance or a licence.
The eastern europeans and alike are cheaper to employ so we actually loose out in tax etc...
As for giving billions away when we are billions in debt has caused our cost of living to increase....just remember the VAT increase in Jan...0 -
You're going to have to provide a source for the claim that the asylum claim had been rejected, as different places are claiming different things.
Economic migrants all receive the minimum wage. So, no, they're not cheaper than British workers. And if you think that giving away a couple of billion in aid will make any noticeable difference to the national debt, then you need to learn to do your sums better. Turkey was receiving aid from the EU well before the economic crisis, so that's moot. I can't find any decent source on aid that Spain is receiving, only references to a possible future bailout. I assume you're not trying to refer to the bailouts of Greece and Ireland? If you were, then those are Eurozone bailouts, not EU. We're not in the Eurozone.0 -
He's scum full stop no matter what race,religion, birthplace he sports...he left my freinds child under his car to die.
Paul is a nice bloke, and he deserves his rights to be heard as well, his right to a family life has been taken from him by someone who doesn't even deserve to be called a human.
Caz xx0 -
whyamihere wrote:You're going to have to provide a source for the claim that the asylum claim had been rejected, as different places are claiming different things.
Economic migrants all receive the minimum wage. So, no, they're not cheaper than British workers. And if you think that giving away a couple of billion in aid will make any noticeable difference to the national debt, then you need to learn to do your sums better. Turkey was receiving aid from the EU well before the economic crisis, so that's moot. I can't find any decent source on aid that Spain is receiving, only references to a possible future bailout. I assume you're not trying to refer to the bailouts of Greece and Ireland? If you were, then those are Eurozone bailouts, not EU. We're not in the Eurozone.
Here is another for your purusal http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itain.html
I cannot find any reference to say he at the time he killed her his application had been approved..
An influx of cheap labour has been capitalised by industy by lowering wages to the minimum allowed...how you can say giving away billions in aid will not make a noticable differance, of course it will as we have to borrow more increasing the intrest we pay so me thinks it's you that needs to work on your sums...Yes we will also bankroll Greece and Ireland..
Anyway you have your opinions and I have mine...let's leave it at that.....if you want to condone this person which has taken a life of a young girl, who at the time was a failed asylum seeker (fact), whom at the time was banned from driving and had a host of criminal covictions (again fact) that's you prerogative0 -
He has a string of offences, from theft to drugs to driving without a license etc etc.
Do we really want that sort of asylum seeker? No we dont, so deport his freaking backside back to Iraq whether he was granted asylum at any stage or not.0 -
whyamihere wrote:You're going to have to provide a source for the claim that the asylum claim had been rejected, as different places are claiming different things.
He was a failed asylum seeker and appealed on numerous occasions hence why he's still here commiting crimes. No problems now his reward for killing a young girl is 4 months (actually only serve 2 months) then allowed to stay in the country.
I do admire your optimism that failed asylum seekers are deported straight away and don't abscond because we have the crazy system were they are released and told to report to be deported at a later date.
FAILED ASYLUM SEEKER.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/8025916.stm0 -
sparrowlegs78 wrote:He's scum full stop no matter what race,religion, birthplace he sports...he left my freinds child under his car to die.
Paul is a nice bloke, and he deserves his rights to be heard as well, his right to a family life has been taken from him by someone who doesn't even deserve to be called a human.
Caz xx
but this is nothing to do with the rights of the victim's family (not that they don't have any rights, but what happens to him now won't bring anyone back, or stop the horrible events from happening). You have no rights as a victim to see your attacker punished as you see fit. You have the right to expect an investigation and fair trial, and for the criminal to be dealt with as the legal system sees fit. But what do you mean by "his rights to be heard"? Of course he's got the right to say what he wants, but he doesn't have the right to determine the punishment, just as you or I don't.
PudseyP:
Also, WTF has this got to do with the EU? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of ... omic_trend
GDP has risen sharply since we joined the EU (or ECC, or ECSC as it was originally). so there's no immediate evidence that EU makes us poorer, in fact many argue that it makes us as much as £300 billion/year better off. (1/3 of GDP)
As for not offending people......*sigh* those stories are almost always utter lies invented by the tabloid press, please, please, please don't believe them, for your own mental health as well as the benefit of the people at the pub that you splutter at in a fit of you-couldn't-make-it-up rage. People weren't banned from using an extractor fan because the smell of bacon might offend muslims, for example (I think that's the most recent one). Near enough every single story like that has been completely misrepresented/made up.
You still haven't explained how someone can steal your job. If you're crap at your job then it might be given to someone else, but it can't be forcefully taken, against the will of your managers can it?
Not that that's got anything to do with the case in hand.
I assume the "send em back" brigade are upset that we're no longer imprisoning innocent children too....0 -
Someone mentioned the 'wonderful benefits system', possibly in jest....
But an asylum seeker gets £42/week to live on and isn't allowed to work. Illegal immigrants obviously get zero benefits. And legal economic migrants get nothing for 12 months, then they're entitled to the same as you or I would be, either here or in their home country.
So there :PImmigrants, including refugees, pay more into the public purse compared to their UK born counterparts. (Institute for Public Policy Research, Paying their way: the fiscal contribution of immigrants in the UK, 2005)
All us lazy natives sponging off the hard-working immigrants.....
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I don't think we should be sending anyone back to Iraq... Regardless of what he's done wrong we don't have the death penalty and we don't do lynchings, so, sending people into a country where even our army isn't safe seems pretty unreasonable to me.
Also as was said right up near the start he's not the only person involved here, he's got family in the UK who've done nothing wrong.
Only thing I think is wrong with the asylum and immigration systems here is that they're so damn slow, it's ridiculous that people are waiting for final decisions and appeals for years, no matter what else they'll make ties and attachments and lose any they had "back home" By all means turn someone around in 6 months if it's appropriate but you've got people who've come here, gone into the system, and now been here so long they have kids in primary school who only speak english and who only know the UK. So what do you do with those? After a point I think it stops being about asylum or immigration and starts being about doing the right thing and taking responsibility for the problem.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind wrote:
Only thing I think is wrong with the asylum and immigration systems here is that they're so damn slow,
this is the main reason why my friend now works for the border agency in the hope they can stop some of the in-flow as opposed to dealing with it once its here!!0 -
bails87 wrote:
You have the right to expect an investigation and fair trial, and for the criminal to be dealt with as the legal system sees fit. But what do you mean by "his rights to be heard"? Of course he's got the right to say what he wants, but he doesn't have the right to determine the punishment, just as you or I don't.
So from the above you agree that 4 months is reasonable ?
PudseyP:
Also, WTF has this got to do with the EU? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of ... omic_trend
GDP has risen sharply since we joined the EU (or ECC, or ECSC as it was originally). so there's no immediate evidence that EU makes us poorer, in fact many argue that it makes us as much as £300 billion/year better off. (1/3 of GDP)
There is also no direct evidence that joining the EU has provided this growth, a lot has been business diversification changing with the times that have improved the GDP
And there is no
As for not offending people......*sigh* those stories are almost always utter lies invented by the tabloid press, please, please, please don't believe them, for your own mental health as well as the benefit of the people at the pub that you splutter at in a fit of you-couldn't-make-it-up rage.
Again, every tabloid, TV station reported he is a failed asylum seeker....I cannot find anything to suggest at the time of the incident he was anything more....
You still haven't explained how someone can steal your job. If you're crap at your job then it might be given to someone else, but it can't be forcefully taken, against the will of your managers can it?
Not that that's got anything to do with the case in hand.
Also I am very good at my job....what I am trying to say that before joning the EU everyone had to apply for a work permit/visa...the member states no do not..procedures and screening have been slackened....an infux of cheap labour as I have said has been capitalised by industry....
Bails at the end of the day the thred is about the killing of an innocent girl by a spineless imigrant (and before you quote me on this I am not tarring them with the same brush) who at the end of the day had a failed application by the UK Border Forces (unless you can prove me wrong) should not have been behind the wheel and had a string of criminal convictions...if you think it's right for him to stay and receive 4 months is acceptable...then good on you. Spare a thought for the family who has lost their child and think again......0 -
No, I haven't said that, in fact I'm sure I said the opposite. 4 months is disgraceful for a repeat offender who has caused someone's death.Pudseyp wrote:
So from the above you agree that 4 months is reasonable ?
Fair enough, that's your view, I've got mine that a free market and better integration improves trade, but no matterPudseyp wrote:There is also no direct evidence that joining the EU has provided this growth, a lot has been business diversification changing with the times that have improved the GDP
I know, so why did you bring up the EU and the stuff about having to avoid "offending people"? The stories of Christmas being banned because it offends muslims is the stuff I was saying is made up, not his asylum status.Pudseyp wrote:Bails at the end of the day the thred is about the killing of an innocent girl by a spineless imigrant
So why even mention he's an immigrant? Which is isn't, he was an asylum seeker.Pudseyp wrote:(and before you quote me on this I am not tarring them with the same brush)
Agreed.should not have been behind the wheel
No, I think 4 months is disgraceful, just to say it again, he should still be in jail, even though the crime was committed over 7 years ago.if you think it's right for him to stay and receive 4 months is acceptable...then good on you
What could the courts do to bring back the victim or make the crime not happen?Spare a thought for the family who has lost their child and think again......
How does breaking up another family and taking a father and husband/partner away from a family who may well depend on him help them? There's more people involved here than just him.0 -
Jake151 wrote:4 Months!?
I cannot believe he didn't get manslaughter that's unreal!
Right, one second here-he didn't cause the accident. The girl stepped into the road.
He was jailed for driving while disqualified and for leaving the scene of the accident but the girl stepped directly in front of the car. No careless driving let alone death by dangerous driving. The only way you can blame him for her death is if you say "Oh, he shouldn't have been driving, therefore, if he hadn't been driving she could have stepped into the road without looking to her heart's content and not been hit" but that doesn't really make much sense.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind wrote:Jake151 wrote:4 Months!?
I cannot believe he didn't get manslaughter that's unreal!
Right, one second here-he didn't cause the accident. The girl stepped into the road.
He was jailed for driving while disqualified and for leaving the scene of the accident but the girl stepped directly in front of the car. No careless driving let alone death by dangerous driving. The only way you can blame him for her death is if you say "Oh, he shouldn't have been driving, therefore, if he hadn't been driving she could have stepped into the road without looking to her heart's content and not been hit" but that doesn't really make much sense.
Ok..she did step into the road, but weeks before the accident he had been banned from driving for driving whilst disqualified, without insurance and without a license so he should not of been driving in the first place...ok you can argue that she may have been hit by someone else then again she may have not...also he was not captured immediatley, so was he under the influence of drink or drugs ?? at the end of the day he is no angel..
One of many reports from April prior to last weeks court ruling.......A failed asylum seeker who left a young girl dying under the wheels of his car after a hit-and-run accident has been freed to the disgust of her family.
Aso Mohammed Ibrahim was due to be deported after his applications for asylum and citizenship were kicked out.
But the 31-year-old Iraqi Kurd has been released on bail from custody while he makes yet another appeal to stay in the UK. He says it is too dangerous for him to return to his homeland.
The father of 12-year-old Amy Houston, who was mowed down by Ibrahim's Rover car as she went to the shops more than five years ago, has spoken of his outrage.
Paul Houston, 39, an engineer, said: 'It's an insult to my daughter. I walk around the street and I'm looking over my shoulder every two minutes thinking, "Am I going to see this bloke?"
'How many more appeals does he get? It is my duty as a father to see this through to the end.
'If I didn't fight then another person would find themselves in this position and I don't want anybody else's kid to get killed. He's just laughing at the British justice system. It is so wrong.'
Weeks before the fatal accident, Ibrahim, who was living in Blackburn, had been banned for nine months for driving while disqualified, without insurance and without a licence. He has never held one.
Hit and run
Amy, who lived in nearby Darwen with her mother Joanne, was outside her home in November 2003 when she was knocked down after running into the path of Ibrahim's car.
She was trapped beneath it but Ibrahim responded by getting out and running off.
A police officer drove an ambulance to hospital so both paramedics on board could treat Amy but she died in hospital that day.
Ibrahim, who has married a British woman and has two children with her, was jailed for four months by Blackburn magistrates for driving while disqualified and failing to stop after an accident.
The maximum they could have given him was six months but they were required to give him credit for an early guilty plea.
Since then he has exhausted all his applications to stay in the UK and he was seized in October last year by the UK Border Agency which said he would be deported 'at the earliest opportunity'.
But he has won a court appeal against him being detained while his deportation case is being processed.
He was freed by an immigration judge this week to the outrage of the family, Justice Secretary Jack Straw and the Border Agency.
Mr Straw, MP for Blackburn, said: 'I am very concerned. I'm making arrangements to speak to Amy's family and also with the Home Secretary.'
A spokesman for the Border Agency said: 'We are extremely disappointed at the court's decision - we vigorously opposed bail for this man.
'Individuals with no rights to remain in the UK will sometimes attempt to frustrate the removal process, but the public can be rest assured we will continue to work towards their removal as quickly as possible.'
The agency said it could not estimate how long it would take before a decision was made on Ibrahim, who will have to report to a police station as part of his bail conditions.
Road safety groups campaigned for years for stiffer penalties for killer drivers to be introduced.
In 2007, the Government introduced longer prison sentences for people causing a death while driving a car while disqualified or without valid insurance.0 -
Pudseyp wrote:at the end of the day he is no angel..
You're right, he's a total raging c**t. Beside the point though.
Give you a bit of balance though, the other thing that honks me off is the people making excuses "Oh, of course he ran, he's used to dealing with the Iraqi police who would probably just have shot him so it's perfectly reasonable he ran away". Er, actually he's pretty used to dealing with the british police too and they never shot him any of the other times he got his collar felt. No idea why people reckon he wants excuses made for him.Uncompromising extremist0 -
To be fair we have lots of arseholes in the UK who aren't from other countries. What would you do with them?Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0
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Montevideoguy wrote:To be fair we have lots of arseholes in the UK who aren't from other countries. What would you do with them?
Ok my opinion may have been a bit strong as this cases has angered me a fair bit, I think we should adopt a system similar to the aussie one in that if you want to come and live in the UK you must have a valued trade or a certain amount of money to bring in so you can sustain a standard of living without claiming all the benefits under the sun. I have paid my taxes for years and it angers me that some of these asylum seekers get better treatment than UK citizens. I read a case that a family of 8 had been put up in a house in Kensington in London...not being funny I would kill to live there...the justification was that the three bed flat they were in was to cramped and no other houses were avialable at the time..the rent £2,000 a week, they should have been greatful for a roof over there heads and they had food on the table. We have a massive disused RAF base near Chester with loads of barracks...why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...0 -
Pudseyp wrote:Montevideoguy wrote:To be fair we have lots of arseholes in the UK who aren't from other countries. What would you do with them?
Ok my opinion may have been a bit strong as this cases has angered me a fair bit, I think we should adopt a system similar to the aussie one in that if you want to come and live in the UK you must have a valued trade or a certain amount of money to bring in so you can sustain a standard of living without claiming all the benefits under the sun. I have paid my taxes for years and it angers me that some of these asylum seekers get better treatment than UK citizens. I read a case that a family of 8 had been put up in a house in Kensington in London...not being funny I would kill to live there...the justification was that the three bed flat they were in was to cramped and no other houses were avialable at the time..the rent £2,000 a week, they should have been greatful for a roof over there heads and they had food on the table. We have a massive disused RAF base near Chester with loads of barracks...why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...
Doesn't answer my question though. What about all the UK born arseholes we have in this country? We can't deport them .Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
Montevideoguy wrote:Pudseyp wrote:Montevideoguy wrote:To be fair we have lots of arseholes in the UK who aren't from other countries. What would you do with them?
Ok my opinion may have been a bit strong as this cases has angered me a fair bit, I think we should adopt a system similar to the aussie one in that if you want to come and live in the UK you must have a valued trade or a certain amount of money to bring in so you can sustain a standard of living without claiming all the benefits under the sun. I have paid my taxes for years and it angers me that some of these asylum seekers get better treatment than UK citizens. I read a case that a family of 8 had been put up in a house in Kensington in London...not being funny I would kill to live there...the justification was that the three bed flat they were in was to cramped and no other houses were avialable at the time..the rent £2,000 a week, they should have been greatful for a roof over there heads and they had food on the table. We have a massive disused RAF base near Chester with loads of barracks...why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...
Doesn't answer my question though. What about all the UK born arseholes we have in this country? We can't deport them .
Oooops....we if they are UK citizens then fack all...what we could do though is every month all the scrotes get to go to Old Trafford...no not for footie for "Ultimate Death Match" they all have to pick a weapon such as chainsaws, pitchforks, swords (you get the picture) the last one standing gets to go free and live in Milton Keynes0 -
Pudseyp wrote:Montevideoguy wrote:Pudseyp wrote:Montevideoguy wrote:To be fair we have lots of arseholes in the UK who aren't from other countries. What would you do with them?
Ok my opinion may have been a bit strong as this cases has angered me a fair bit, I think we should adopt a system similar to the aussie one in that if you want to come and live in the UK you must have a valued trade or a certain amount of money to bring in so you can sustain a standard of living without claiming all the benefits under the sun. I have paid my taxes for years and it angers me that some of these asylum seekers get better treatment than UK citizens. I read a case that a family of 8 had been put up in a house in Kensington in London...not being funny I would kill to live there...the justification was that the three bed flat they were in was to cramped and no other houses were avialable at the time..the rent £2,000 a week, they should have been greatful for a roof over there heads and they had food on the table. We have a massive disused RAF base near Chester with loads of barracks...why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...
Doesn't answer my question though. What about all the UK born arseholes we have in this country? We can't deport them .
Oooops....we if they are UK citizens then fack all...what we could do though is every month all the scrotes get to go to Old Trafford...no not for footie for "Ultimate Death Match" they all have to pick a weapon such as chainsaws, pitchforks, swords (you get the picture) the last one standing gets to go free and live in Milton Keynes
Again though that doesn't seriously attempt to answer the question. The one issue I'll give you is the idea that you have people traveling through various EU and other "safe" countries to get here (when a refugee is supposed to go to the closest available safe country).
Thing is though. While there are a number of asylum seekers/refugees who are not pleasant folk and will no doubt get into trouble with the law you cannot tar everyone with the same brush (innocent until proven guilty). The fact is, though, is that we have a lot of problems in the country that have been caused by the people who were born there. Thing is though the red tops love a bit of right wing "IT'S ALL THE FAULT OF THE ARAB TYPES WHO COME HERE!!!". Be focusing on single cases (and usually distorting facts to suit) they whip people up into a frenzy about it. Not much difference to what the nazi party done back in the dayFormally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
Northwind wrote:Pudseyp wrote:why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...
Cos we don't imprison people who've done nothing wrong.
Agreed but untill there imigration status has been approved they should be detained in a humaine way, this would stop the thousands and thousands disapearing into the ether......0 -
Pudseyp wrote:Northwind wrote:Pudseyp wrote:why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...
Cos we don't imprison people who've done nothing wrong.
Agreed but untill there imigration status has been approved they should be detained in a humaine way, this would stop the thousands and thousands disapearing into the ether......
If you detain people in "a humane" way you'll get the inevitable outcry of "ASYLUM SCUM IN CUSHY NUMBER SHOCK!!"Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
Montevideoguy wrote:Pudseyp wrote:Northwind wrote:Pudseyp wrote:why not detain them in places like that that they cannot disapear from untill the claims have been through the system...
Cos we don't imprison people who've done nothing wrong.
Agreed but untill there imigration status has been approved they should be detained in a humaine way, this would stop the thousands and thousands disapearing into the ether......
If you detain people in "a humane" way you'll get the inevitable outcry of "ASYLUM SCUM IN CUSHY NUMBER SHOCK!!"
OK all the food they get is from the Tesco value range.....
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Still money being diverted from "OUR KIDS AND SCHOOLS AND NURSES AND STUFF!!!"
Truth is I'd be more concerned at our completely corrupt political system, an ineffective judicial system and the complete breakdown of society than what a small number of naughty people are doing.Formally known as Coatbridgeguy0 -
bails87 wrote:Pudseyp
All the benefits under the sun?
How much does an asylum seeker get then?
Too much0 -
