Watts - And The Meaning!!!

steve23

ok, so i had a ramp test done and a max power effort too, but what do they all mean!?

i was told what my watts per kg is, but does anyone know what is an avergae output etc for W/kg and max power?

thanks

Anonymous

If you don't know what the numbers represent and how to interpret them, may I ask as to the reason you did one?

steve23

i know what they are, and what they represent, but i have nothing to compare my results to.

ive no idea what the average w/kg is for say a pro rider, top amateur, club cyclist etc

Bronzie

Have a look at the following "power profiling" scale:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/media/694 ... ing_v4.xls

It will give you an idea of how you compare to others PROVIDED your efforts were the best you could manage. Obviously your current level of fitness / training will affect where you fall on the scale to a large extent (ie it's where you are now rather than the best you can ever be).

Your highest 1 min sustainable power at the end of your ramp test is your MAP (Maximum Aerobic Power). Multiply this by 75% to give your approximate 1-hour FTP (Functional Threshold Power) and then compare with the FT column in the spreadsheet.

The figures quoted for 1 min in the data are for an all out maximal effort of just 1 minute rather than at the end of a ramp test, so don't compare your data with this column.

You maximum sprint power can be compared against the 5-sec column, but bear in mind that the best figures in this column are achieved by the likes of Chris Hoy (ie pure track sprinters) so most endurance road riders tend to score quite poorly on this scale.

Anonymous

It's difficult to compare the figures from the Hunter Allen table and a ramp test. I go by the HA table but it is skewed towards specialists in each area at the top end, and is a little low in the bottom. e.g. I'd suggest Cat4 racing in the UK is about the level of Cat3 on the HA table.)

Dunno if this is of help but it's from the wattbike website... MMP = final minute of test.

Fitness Levels
Training Guide>Getting Started>Fitness Levels
There are 5 fitness levels (note – Power/weight ratios based on 70kg for male and 55kg for female)

Level 1 (Beginner)
No previous cycling experience, not currently exercising
MMP: < M 240W, F 160W Power/weight ratio: M < 3.43W, F < 2.91W

Level 2 (Moderate Fitness)
Informal exercise over the last 12 months
MMP: M 240W-290W, F 160W-200W Power/weight ratio: M 3.43W-4.14W, F 2.91W-3.64W

Level 3 (Active Fitness)
Exercising 2-3 times a week for the last 12 months
MMP: M 290W-340W, F 200W-240W Power/weight ratio – M 4.14W-4.86W, F 3.64W-4.36W

Level 4 (Active Cyclist)
Cycling 2-3 times a week for the last 12 months
MMP: M 340W-400W, F 240W-280W Power/weight ratio – M 4.86W-5.71W, F 4.36W-5.09W

Level 5 (Experienced Cyclist)
Cycling 5 + times a week for the last 24 months +
MMP: M >400, F >280 Power/weight ratio – M > 5.71W, F >5.09W

jibberjim

One thing to remember about the MMP test is that it's entirely possible that you didn't actually ellicit VO2max during the test in which case the number is not an absolute. Personally I fail if the protocol for the test involves a fixed or unchanging cadence i.e. you either have to keep the cadence within a specified range or have to pick a cadence and then stick to it.

Rather than simply being allowed to produce power.

I also produce significantly less power indoors anyway.

a_n_t

jibberjim wrote:

I also produce significantly less power indoors anyway.

Me too, waaaay down! Mind you I have a crap fan and a cheapo mag turbo.

freehub

NapoleonD wrote:

It's difficult to compare the figures from the Hunter Allen table and a ramp test. I go by the HA table but it is skewed towards specialists in each area at the top end, and is a little low in the bottom. e.g. I'd suggest Cat4 racing in the UK is about the level of Cat3 on the HA table.)

Dunno if this is of help but it's from the wattbike website... MMP = final minute of test.

Fitness Levels
Training Guide>Getting Started>Fitness Levels
There are 5 fitness levels (note – Power/weight ratios based on 70kg for male and 55kg for female)

Level 1 (Beginner)
No previous cycling experience, not currently exercising
MMP: < M 240W, F 160W Power/weight ratio: M < 3.43W, F < 2.91W

Level 2 (Moderate Fitness)
Informal exercise over the last 12 months
MMP: M 240W-290W, F 160W-200W Power/weight ratio: M 3.43W-4.14W, F 2.91W-3.64W

Level 3 (Active Fitness)
Exercising 2-3 times a week for the last 12 months
MMP: M 290W-340W, F 200W-240W Power/weight ratio – M 4.14W-4.86W, F 3.64W-4.36W

Level 4 (Active Cyclist)
Cycling 2-3 times a week for the last 12 months
MMP: M 340W-400W, F 240W-280W Power/weight ratio – M 4.86W-5.71W, F 4.36W-5.09W

Level 5 (Experienced Cyclist)
Cycling 5 + times a week for the last 24 months +
MMP: M >400, F >280 Power/weight ratio – M > 5.71W, F >5.09W

I'm level 2 according to that and only do informal exercise over the last 12 months when I actually exercise between 2-3 times a week maybe more. I'm around 310w 4.00w/kg. No wonder I'm shite a TT's then.

Infact, when I first starting using a turbo that could measure wattage I was in level 1 (not currently exercising) But I was currently exercising.

Anonymous

Will, it's not FTP it's power in the final minute of a ramp test. You are likely to be the top level...

Alex_Simmons/RST

NapoleonD wrote:

Dunno if this is of help but it's from the wattbike website...

It's not.

What power one is capable producing of has a lot more to it than level of experience.

If I know the body mass and 1-min MMP from an incremental test to exhaustion with a linear increase in power at 20-25W/min, I can provide an indication of relative fitness level.

Anonymous

I think it's aimed at deciding which wattbike training plan to follow...

freehub

How hard are ramp tests? Is it just like intevals, on the computrainer there is this 10 mile course that is called sawtooth and it's got about 7 or 8 3% climbs, supposed to batter it up the climbs then go steadyish down, but if you slowly increase the power up each climb would that count as a ramp test? I usually just sit at 400w or more if I can on each climb then coast down em behind the virtual rider.

inseine

No, it's nothing like that.

Anonymous

Ramp test - start at a given power, say 180 watts. Increase by 20 watts every minute until you can't hold the required power. I got my highest ever HR reading doing one.

freehub

Oh right, I'm doing something similar to that next year, start at 50W, and it constantly goes up and you have to stay at 90rpm tho, it goes up to 1000w I think, goes up slowly tho, I rekon I'll get up to about 550W then have to stop.

jibberjim

freehub wrote:

Oh right, I'm doing something similar to that next year, start at 50W, and it constantly goes up and you have to stay at 90rpm tho, it goes up to 1000w I think, goes up slowly tho, I rekon I'll get up to about 550W then have to stop.

If you can get to 550watts on that ramp test you would have an FTP way over 4 watts per kilo even if untrained otherwise. Seen as you're a pretty accomplished cyclists I think it'll be unlikely if you can even hit 450. Ramp tests are hard. There's certainly no-one who can do 1000watts in one. I suspect even the few elite cyclists up near 100kg's are going to be less than 800. More normal weight people much less.

The 90rpm limitation is a bad one, in fact it's a test which I'd say makes it essentially useless - since you may have a preferred cadence well away from 90 which would allow significantly more power to be produced.

Anonymous

Yeah, the Kingcycle test demands you stay at 90, it's the one I did. At higher wattages I get a lot more out if I mash at 75-80.

jibberjim

NapoleonD wrote:

Yeah, the Kingcycle test demands you stay at 90, it's the one I did. At higher wattages I get a lot more out if I mash at 75-80.

I once asked Andy Coggan why so many tests require the fixed cadence and he suggested it was most likely because the erg's that were originally available weren't reliable across changing cadences so it could be gamed. And the protocols stuck even though the erg's improved

freehub

jibberjim wrote:

freehub wrote:

Oh right, I'm doing something similar to that next year, start at 50W, and it constantly goes up and you have to stay at 90rpm tho, it goes up to 1000w I think, goes up slowly tho, I rekon I'll get up to about 550W then have to stop.

If you can get to 550watts on that ramp test you would have an FTP way over 4 watts per kilo even if untrained otherwise. Seen as you're a pretty accomplished cyclists I think it'll be unlikely if you can even hit 450. Ramp tests are hard. There's certainly no-one who can do 1000watts in one. I suspect even the few elite cyclists up near 100kg's are going to be less than 800. More normal weight people much less.

The 90rpm limitation is a bad one, in fact it's a test which I'd say makes it essentially useless - since you may have a preferred cadence well away from 90 which would allow significantly more power to be produced.

Maybe you're right, the last time I did one was 8 months ago and I only hit 350w on it, we have to keep it at 90rpm cause it's inaccurate wattage reading at any other cadence.

I guess the next time I do it, which will be after crimbo, if I hit 450w I'll be happy then.

I find I can hold higher wattages at around 75-85rpm where I can do around 350-500w and my HR drops.

inseine

I guess the next time I do it, which will be after crimbo, if I hit 450w I'll be happy then.

I find all your descriptions of what you can achieve very confusing! I don't thik you can say 'I'm here I'll be at this level in the future' without actually doing the test. And remember the test is designed so you can create your training around known zones not just so we can all chat about them on a forum! I'm probably saying this because my figures look pretty poor!

freehub

I said I did 350w last time, I'll be happy if I hit 450w next time, if not then fine, I'll train more and will hit it eventually, if I get higher then kwl.

Pokerface

There's no way you will have gained 100w on a ramp test over the course of a year. Probably not over a lifetime*


*Unless measured from completely untrained

Anonymous

I reckon I might have...

Pokerface

NapoleonD wrote:

I reckon I might have...

Pre-injury level to now? Or post-injury level to now?


(Ramp tests are incredibly hard due to their progressive nature - holding 400 watts may seem that hard, but it is after you've just held 380 for a minute, and 360 for the minute before that, etc, etc.)*


*Not directed at you Nap

inseine

I said I did 350w last time, I'll be happy if I hit 450w next time, if not then fine, I'll train more and will hit it eventually, if I get higher then kwl.

I know this is my personal experience but I've just never changed that much whatever I do. I've tried loads of different plans and to be honest I am what I am come what may, but good luck to you if you think you can have improved by 100watts (or 200 as you said originally!) especially when you've not been doing much.

inseine

I'll train more and will hit it eventually

and that's another thing, maybe you just never will. It would be easy if more training meant more power. I'd just end up knackered!

Anonymous

Pokerface wrote:

NapoleonD wrote:

I reckon I might have...

Pre-injury level to now? Or post-injury level to now?


(Ramp tests are incredibly hard due to their progressive nature - holding 400 watts may seem that hard, but it is after you've just held 380 for a minute, and 360 for the minute before that, etc, etc.)*


*Not directed at you Nap

Post Injury, last year in Sept. It was 320. Pre Asthma diagosis

Pre injury I was pi55 weak anyway!

Pokerface

I'm sure Alex or Jim will be along at some point to tell me it IS possible to gain 100w on a ramp test in a year :oops:

I think it's hard enough to add 100w in FTP or even in peak 5s power in a year, let alone in a ramp test. Although I have added 100w in sprint - I'd be surprised if I can do it again in the next year!

Anonymous

I've added 70w FTP since I got a PT (Just under 2 years, although a knackered leg halfway through has slowed progress.)

jibberjim

Pokerface wrote:

I'm sure Alex or Jim will be along at some point to tell me it IS possible to gain 100w on a ramp test in a year :oops:

I think you'd have to be pretty unfit in the first one to make it possible. Whilst most people are not anywhere near there cycling VO2max when they first start you get most of the gains pretty quickly if you do some VO2max training and a ~30% improvement at power at VO2max would be pretty impressive.

Of course it really does depend where you start from. I did a ramp test within 6 months of starting cycling and hit 350, I did 420 fifteen months later on quite high volume and lots of VO2max focussed training (as I enjoy it!) With freehubs training which is much less about VO2max I think it would be unlikely he'd see the same improvements although he is of course much younger so will have more opportunties.

Pokerface

jibberjim wrote:

With freehubs training which is much less about VO2max I think it would be unlikely he'd see the same improvements although he is of course much younger so will have more opportunties.

Especially if his FTP is already 310w as he quoted. If he can add 100w to his ramp test, that would mean a gain in something like 125w to FTP if I'm not mistaken?

With an FTP of over 400w, he would be in the Pro ranks I think!