Why did the Merlin thread get locked?

maryka

bendertherobot wrote:

bompington wrote:

infopete wrote:

I think I should spread the word to other forums, which forums would you suggest?

What about the LGBT forum or whatever they're called? They certainly seem to know how to dish it out.
Trouble is, they might not know what a hanger is.

I'm not sure the lesbian gay bisexual and transvestite forum is the best place to ask.

Try again with that last one

bompington

bendertherobot wrote:

bompington wrote:

infopete wrote:

I think I should spread the word to other forums, which forums would you suggest?

What about the LGBT forum or whatever they're called? They certainly seem to know how to dish it out.
Trouble is, they might not know what a hanger is.

I'm not sure the lesbian gay bisexual and transvestite forum is the best place to ask.

moonshine

im guessing he meant http://www.lfgss.com/?, however if that was an autocorrect from his user dictionary... then ooops! :oops:

Busted!

Buckled_Rims

I guess the only recourse is getting Merlin ABG to either "buy" a nearly new Cielo as replacement, get your money back or accept a Shitespeed....sorry, Litespeed.

I really want you have a new Cielo, but that Litespeed looks likes it's being packed ready as your options ain't getting any better.

Captain Fagor

infopete wrote:

Lynskey don't want to repair my Merlin Cielo

They're concerned about it becoming un-glued when they repair it.

Interesting. Lynskey's view suggests the price you pay for your highly valued aesthetics is that the frame is to all intents and purposes unrepairable. Either that or they're concerned about the legal consequences of repairing frames that ABG deem irrepairable.

Perhaps Merlin's original fabrication sequence involves the lugs and all titanium components all being pre-welded, then the carbon tubes inserted and then glued together. Presumably any oven based curing of the glue would be at a temperature lower than those associated with the welding process. Perhaps composites man MontyD could confirm?

Flasher wrote:

You need to forget about the Cielo, it's probably already cut into small pieces, just get the best replacement frame you can and either build it up or sell it. You need to move on...........

This may be a trifle harsh, but sadly may not be a hundred miles off the mark. I doubt it's cut up, but I don't think that any amount of pressure applied via forums will make ABG change their minds: not what you want to hear, I know. To my mind you have to get the answers to the following questions:

1) Is my Merlin repairable? Approach UK titanium welders and highlight proximity of bonded carbon tubes.

2) If it is repairable within the UK at a reasonable cost, then to get your frame back you have to walk away from ABG without any compensation for the (presumably) defective frame. Are you prepared to do that?

3) If it is not repairable, then which is more valuable to you: (a) the Cielo for artistic / sentimental value (with the possibility of repairing at a later date), or (b) an ugly duckling carbon Litespeed frame that some fool - sorry cycling connoisseur - may pay 70% retail for if new and unused?

Lastly, you mentioned terms and conditions that came with the Litespeed offer. I'm not sure how these affect your thought process either. Are you able to divulge them?

Captain Fagor

Just looking at the original thread again, and the photos that Merlin took of the bike, I forgot that the rear dropouts are bolted (and not bonded) to the seatstays, with the whole chainstay being of titanium tubing.

With that in mind, I would have thought that disconnecting the dropout from the seatstay and appropriate use of heat shielding materials could alleviate any concerns about the seatstay bonding. The next nearest bonding would be with the seat tube above the bottom bracket.

I'm guessing a UK titanium welder would have a reasonable feel for how hot that part of the frame would get during a repair.

infopete

I've not been after compensation though Mrs P wants something evil to happen to them for sending the police round.

I've only ever wanted my Merlin repaired.

Assuming I get it back Mark at Enigma thought they would be able to fix it.

In the meantime I want to choose another forum to start posting on, any suggestions?

infopete

NapoleonD wrote:

http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php/41-Road-Cycling

I'll give them a go Nap

infopete

I'm also going to start a wordpress blog over christmas. I'd like it to be a focal point for disgruntled Merlin/Litespeed customers and with all of your help I hope to get it high on google search.

Captain Fagor

infopete wrote:

In the meantime I want to choose another forum to start posting on, any suggestions?

Well, this one has nearly 12,000 members...

http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

infopete

Captain Fagor wrote:

infopete wrote:

In the meantime I want to choose another forum to start posting on, any suggestions?

Well, this one has nearly 12,000 members...

http://www.veloriders.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

I've never come across this one and I'm in the East Midlands.

bendertherobot

bompington wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

bompington wrote:

infopete wrote:

I think I should spread the word to other forums, which forums would you suggest?

What about the LGBT forum or whatever they're called? They certainly seem to know how to dish it out.
Trouble is, they might not know what a hanger is.

I'm not sure the lesbian gay bisexual and transvestite forum is the best place to ask.

Whoosh right back at you

infopete

bendertherobot wrote:

bompington wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

bompington wrote:

infopete wrote:

I think I should spread the word to other forums, which forums would you suggest?

What about the LGBT forum or whatever they're called? They certainly seem to know how to dish it out.
Trouble is, they might not know what a hanger is.

I'm not sure the lesbian gay bisexual and transvestite forum is the best place to ask.

Whoosh right back at you

If I'm going with an LGBT forum shouldn't I try Animal Rights too?

infopete

Oooooops I forgot to add save my Merlin

infopete

I've put up a draft blog. http://americanbicyclegroup.wordpress.com/

Tell me what you think about it, tell me what needs changing and what needs adding, pleaae.

And please link to it and please tell everyone to read it.

dodgy

Make sure you clearly write something to indicate your blog is not representing ABG in any way. They might take a view that you're using their trademark or something as you have it in the URL of your site.

maryka

infopete wrote:

I've put up a draft blog. http://americanbicyclegroup.wordpress.com/

Tell me what you think about it, tell me what needs changing and what needs adding, pleaae.

And please link to it and please tell everyone to read it.

From their letter that you quoted:
"We believe this because, not only did we find that the non-drive side drop out was cracked, the head tube was also cracked and the rear mech hanger was bent."

What's this about the head tube? I don't remember reading anything about that or seeing pics of it in either of the BR threads.

peter101cycle

maryka wrote:

infopete wrote:

I've put up a draft blog. http://americanbicyclegroup.wordpress.com/

Tell me what you think about it, tell me what needs changing and what needs adding, pleaae.

And please link to it and please tell everyone to read it.

From their letter that you quoted:
"We believe this because, not only did we find that the non-drive side drop out was cracked, the head tube was also cracked and the rear mech hanger was bent."

What's this about the head tube? I don't remember reading anything about that or seeing pics of it in either of the BR threads.

Yep, I cannot remember reading about the head tube being cracked in any way. Any information about whether this has been noticed before?!?

Unless ABG are a complete bunch of liars (which hopefully they are not), then this is a strange addition to the mix......

infopete

Hi

Non of the photographs they sent to me ever showed the cracked headtube so I assumed the woman from ABG warranty and whose name cannot be mentioned made a mistake in the email.

However, before I packaged the bike to be sent off I took a few pictures. Here are the ones that show the headtube:


Posts: 59 Before I posted my merlin to ABG I took several pictures just in case anything happened to it while it was away.

Here are the links that show the headtube:

http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m001.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m005.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m008.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m026.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m027.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m037.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m038.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m041.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m046.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m058.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m062.JPG
http://www.polysym.com/merlin/m063.JPG

And I can't see any cracks.

balthazar

Have you considered posting in the rec.bicycles.tech newsgroup? American dealers, shop owners and engineers have been contributing for many years; Sheldon was a notable contributor. They have particular enthusiasm for material failure diagnoses. There may be some advice there from those with closer experience with ABG.

https://groups.google.com/group/rec.bic ... pics?hl=en

It looks spammed to death, but is still robustly alive, I think.

FWIW, I think it's totally clear that this is a fatigue failure originating in a manufacture defect, and that you have no fault.

Hondated

infopete having just looked at the photos I can see why you want to keep what you have and why you are so rattled. What a gorgeous bike. I never realised that it was so ornate.

Bobbinogs

Yepp, there are parts of it that look like a fantastic old shotgun with the lovely engraving you only get on expensive models, very nice. Good luck with your claim Pete.

zanes

WTH is/has been going through ABG's minds when all this has been going on?

Admittedly we've only had one side posting on here* but even so it sounds like a colossal "bills up" as Crabtree would say

*Not a dig in anyway
Please don't send the police round

infopete

zanes wrote:

WTH is/has been going through ABG's minds when all this has been going on?

Admittedly we've only had one side posting on here* but even so it sounds like a colossal "bills up" as Crabtree would say

*Not a dig in anyway
Please don't send the police round

One sided Me ...... I'm sure I am not, never ever guv

ABG/Merlin/Litespeed and the bloke in Ireland who reads this all do have the ability to reply.

Velonutter

Bloody hell they are gorgeous frames, I would have jumped at the chance of owning one if only they had honoured your warranty.

Just a thought, have you ever picked up the phone to them, you might find that reaps some rewards!

zanes

infopete wrote:

zanes wrote:

WTH is/has been going through ABG's minds when all this has been going on?

Admittedly we've only had one side posting on here* but even so it sounds like a colossal "bills up" as Crabtree would say

*Not a dig in anyway
Please don't send the police round

One sided Me ...... I'm sure I am not, never ever guv

ABG/Merlin/Litespeed and the bloke in Ireland who reads this all do have the ability to reply.

Like I say, not a dig, just an observation. . You certainly appear to be very genuine from the consistency of your story and your photos. I also agree that the other party(s) do have the ability to reply, but probably have reasons (obvious or not) as to why they aren't.

But I really do find the whole thing to be making less and less sense from their side as the facts appear to stand (unless they're total idiots or actually eight years old, two theories that appear to have very little evidence to disprove them atm). How much would it cost them in time or money to make up some BS reason about "reexamining the frame and finding new evidence" or the ilk, repair it and try to at least come out of it having saved a little face (although in many peoples eyes too little too late I suspect). What can they possibly hope to gain by dragging this out? A few hundred dollars in saved labour, material and shipping costs?

I'm definitely not accusing you of being a liar or similar, just trying to square it all in my mind-maybe ABG are just this stupid. I hope you understand :oops: FWIW I believe you, and shall not be taking custom ABG's way in the future.

top_bhoy

zanes wrote:

<snipped>But I really do find the whole thing to be making less and less sense from their side as the facts appear to stand (unless they're total idiots or actually eight years old, two theories that appear to have very little evidence to disprove them atm). How much would it cost them in time or money to make up some BS reason about "reexamining the frame and finding new evidence" or the ilk, repair it and try to at least come out of it having saved a little face (although in many peoples eyes too little too late I suspect). What can they possibly hope to gain by dragging this out? A few hundred dollars in saved labour, material and shipping costs?

Who knows what is behind their thinking but you have to think they have reasons - no matter how unreasonable we think they are. On the other hand, perhaps they think a UK customer buying a US product can be ignored or there are 'behind the scenes' issues which could lead to a US lawsuit against them.

The big downside for me in this entire episode, aside from not honouring the warranty, was the police involvement. Admittedly I am not up to date with harassment protocols and processes but it appears to me that the police took the view of the person making the complaint and were not being even handed.

I wish you well Infopete in your journey.

Monty Dog

Pete's thread over on RBR has solicited just as much interest and everyone comes to a pretty similar conclusion - how much this has cost ABG in reputation both now and in the future is uncertain, but can't imagine any prospective buyers who come across these threads are going to hold them in high regard and is likely to influence their purchasing decisions. Perhaps it's because ABG are such a bunch of arrogant idiots that they got themselves into this position in the first place?

rc856

Monty Dog wrote:

Perhaps it's because ABG are such a bunch of arrogant idiots that they got themselves into this position in the first place?

+100

infopete

I guess Litespeed/Merlin/ABG think I'll get bored and eventually stop bothering them.

BUT I want my Merlin Cielo back and repaired.

Sometime after Christmas I'll start posting on other forums as it's easier now I have the blog to link to.

ABG, if you're still reading this, I'm not going away.