Turbo Training for endurance
Comments
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Chiggy wrote:Likewise, hill intervals at the same intensity 'should' be increasing in number as the weeks go by.
Erm, no. You cannot keep increasing the number of intervals in an interval session and have it be remotely the same workout. 10x5 minutes with 2 minute rest in between and 4x5 minutes with 2 minute rest in between are going to be forced to do the 5 minute efforts at a lower intensity in the former one. So if you follow your advice increasing the number of intervals will just reduce the intensity of the workout eventually degrading to a high rest threshold workout which is unlikely to be a particularly effective workout - and certainly a very different one to the early one.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
I think what Chiggy is saying is that, for example, you do 3 x 8 minute intervals at 90% FTP, you will be able to increase the number of intervals over time and still maintain that 90% FTP n each added one.0
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NapoleonD wrote:I think what Chiggy is saying is that, for example, you do 3 x 8 minute intervals at 90% FTP, you will be able to increase the number of intervals over time and still maintain that 90% FTP n each added one.
Well, anyone should be able to do 8 x 8 minute intervals at 90% of FTP (64 minutes of on work at a rate below what they can sustain solidly for 1 hour with rests, that's a pretty easy workout) But add another one, and another, and another, and it quite quickly goes out to become an impossible workout - actually not that quickly on your above example but consider 4 x 5 minutes at 115% of FTP or 2 x 20 at FTP. Both 4 x 20 at FTP or 8 x 5 at 115% are almost certainly completely impossible workouts which no-one will complete.
The intensity is already relative to your fitness, so whilst your fitness changes the intensity of the workout shouldn't. Of course one component is that you can do more total work in a week as you get fitter, but I would strongly say that shouldn't overly change the nature of the individual workouts just increase the number of workouts in the week.
'cos increasing the number of intervals will just decrease the intensity in the intervals which will change the workout.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Surely that just indicates that your FTP has improved and you haven't tested for it recently?NapoleonD wrote:I think what Chiggy is saying is that, for example, you do 3 x 8 minute intervals at 90% FTP, you will be able to increase the number of intervals over time and still maintain that 90% FTP n each added one.0 -
Dunno. I know nothing of these things. I was just explaining my interpretation of what Chiggy was saying, I wasn't agreeing with him/her.
This thread, like all the training threads, just compounds my confusion.
That's why I have a coach! I haven't a clue what I'm doing!0 -
NapoleonD wrote:Dunno. I know nothing of these things. I was just explaining my interpretation of what Chiggy was saying, I wasn't agreeing with him/her.
If he was saying you could do 3x8 minutes at 250 watts then after training you could do 4x8 at 250 watts and then 5x8 at 250 watts, then yes you could but the intensity would then change since being fitter in the later examples makes the intensity of 250watts lower.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Start with 5 x 2 minutes at 325 - 350 W with 5 seconds rest between them.
Build it up gradually over several weeks to 21 x 2 minutes at 350 W.
Then do 30 minutes continuaously at 260 - 280 Watts, take a five minute gentle cruise and then do the 21 intervals.
Then when you've got this conquered, Do 30 mins at 275 W, 5 mins cruise, 30 mins at 275 W, 30 mins cruise and then the 21 intervals.
Start now and when next July comes round, you'll fly up the Etape.
When a cyclist has a great big hill at the end of his front drive, the best he can do to begin with is to ride up it as far as he can before he has to get off and walk.
If he's on the lowest gear and trying to keep a decent cadence, the power with each successive climb will be similar, but his aim is to extend the time scale to a point where he can sustain the effort all the way to the top.
He will of course gain a little power as his muscles grow. The over-riding noticable gain will be the distance he can climb before failure.
This is 'Endurance'.0 -
Chiggy wrote:Start now and when next July comes round, you'll fly up the Etape.
I can complete the final workout now. but my wife, who'd also fly up the Etape almost certainly can't do the first one. You appear to be mistakenly using an absolute power number for something that should be a relative intensity as NapD said (whatever he says about not understanding it appears to not be true)Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Is there an echo in here?Chiggy wrote:Power Output is the result of all our training efforts.
Power can be used to co-relate from the last dyno test. BUT, between then and now, the body has re-tuned itself to get more fuel and O2 to the business end.
Without any other measurements ( V02, BL & HR ) an increase in peak kW in our repeated test schedule will tell us we are stronger than last week.
Durabilty wise, a continuous exertion of x kW 'should' be able to be sustained for a longer period of time before fatigue failure.
Likewise, hill intervals at the same intensity 'should' be increasing in number as the weeks go by.
In other words it sounds like you agree that you can best evaluate performance with power measurement and that BL, VO2 and HR are not particularly important/useful wrt training.0 -
How can you suggest power outputs for training when you don't know what a rider is actually capable of to start with?Chiggy wrote:Start with 5 x 2 minutes at 325 - 350 W with 5 seconds rest between them.
Build it up gradually over several weeks to 21 x 2 minutes at 350 W.
Then do 30 minutes continuaously at 260 - 280 Watts, take a five minute gentle cruise and then do the 21 intervals.
Then when you've got this conquered, Do 30 mins at 275 W, 5 mins cruise, 30 mins at 275 W, 30 mins cruise and then the 21 intervals.
Start now and when next July comes round, you'll fly up the Etape.
Why bother with 5-second rests?0 -
jibberjim wrote:Chiggy wrote:Start now and when next July comes round, you'll fly up the Etape.
I can complete the final workout now. but my wife, who'd also fly up the Etape almost certainly can't do the first one. You appear to be mistakenly using an absolute power number for something that should be a relative intensity as NapD said (whatever he says about not understanding it appears to not be true)
The way I look at it, if I am going to spend loads of dosh going to France to ride up some long hills, I study the route, evaluate the exertion I will be faced with and train for it INCLUDING a safety factor. ( same as I would a TT or RR ).
I did exactly this for the Weekend when the TdF started in Dublin. I rode up Wicklow and left a group of Essex lads trailing.
The simple reason for 'overkilling' the training is so I didn't make an asshole of myself on the day.
When competing, aim for 'overkill' in training, and then you might find yourself on the podium. Note "Aim" for overkill, not necessarily 'do' overkill. 0 -
Just out of curiosity Chiggy since you're dishing out some very specific training advice - what's you're background and do you actually know what you're talking about? IMHO your suggested workouts are a bit odd anyway More problems but still living....0
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OP asked for some advice on how to improve his endurance by using a turbo.
I gave him the whys and wherefores on my first post, along with a very simplified session that doesn't require HRMs etc. His session duration should tell him his progress.0 -
Indeed Chiggy, what are your credentials? Why should we listen to your advice? I know it sounds blunt but, well, y'know?0
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Get the miles in.0
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NapoleonD wrote:Indeed Chiggy, what are your credentials? Why should we listen to your advice? I know it sounds blunt but, well, y'know?
I didn't know I needed to sit an exam to post on an internet forum.
Go and take a copy of my first post on this thread, show it to your coach and come back if you still have any issues.
In future, I shall keep my mouth shut and let someone else do the talking.
If your coach says you do not need to stimulate capillarisation to improve endurance, consider changing your coach.0 -
Chiggy wrote:NapoleonD wrote:Indeed Chiggy, what are your credentials? Why should we listen to your advice? I know it sounds blunt but, well, y'know?
I didn't know I needed to sit an exam to post on an internet forum.
Go and take a copy of my first post on this thread, show it to your coach and come back if you still have any issues.
In future, I shall keep my mouth shut and let someone else do the talking.
If your coach says you do not need to stimulate capillarisation to improve endurance, consider changing your coach.
Here, Here, better still why not ask Sean Kelly if he ever needed to stimulate capillarisation, having met Sean I think I can guess the answer!! :roll: 0 -
Chiggy wrote:NapoleonD wrote:Indeed Chiggy, what are your credentials? Why should we listen to your advice? I know it sounds blunt but, well, y'know?
I didn't know I needed to sit an exam to post on an internet forum.
Go and take a copy of my first post on this thread, show it to your coach and come back if you still have any issues.
In future, I shall keep my mouth shut and let someone else do the talking.
If your coach says you do not need to stimulate capillarisation to improve endurance, consider changing your coach.
A bit of background would be useful, that's all, to validate your information.
Otherwise you're just another random anonymous interweb keyboard warrior just copying and pasting from somewhere.0 -
NapoleonD wrote:A bit of background would be useful, that's all, to validate your information.
Otherwise you're just another random anonymous interweb keyboard warrior just copying and pasting from somewhere.
there arent any of those on here are there? Shirley not Your Past is Not Your Potential...0 -
Chiggy wrote:NapoleonD wrote:Indeed Chiggy, what are your credentials? Why should we listen to your advice? I know it sounds blunt but, well, y'know?
I didn't know I needed to sit an exam to post on an internet forum.
Just asking! I think it is interesting to see where people are coming from. It helps me understand why they say what they say0 -
NapoleonD wrote:Chiggy wrote:NapoleonD wrote:Indeed Chiggy, what are your credentials? Why should we listen to your advice? I know it sounds blunt but, well, y'know?
I didn't know I needed to sit an exam to post on an internet forum.
Go and take a copy of my first post on this thread, show it to your coach and come back if you still have any issues.
In future, I shall keep my mouth shut and let someone else do the talking.
If your coach says you do not need to stimulate capillarisation to improve endurance, consider changing your coach.
A bit of background would be useful, that's all, to validate your information.
Otherwise you're just another random anonymous interweb keyboard warrior just copying and pasting from somewhere.
Look at Naps detective work Chiggy your a cycling coach arn`t you?. 0 -
After reading the whole thread i`ve realised i`m not that funny :roll:0
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Heh heh.0
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Ah. Retrieved from my ex-wife's attic. ( Thank goodness she didn't throw them out ).
My Certificate numbers are "Fitness Instructing" 12048 & "Exercise and Fitness Knowledge" 63107.
Both awarded by Central YMCA Qualifications.
The 'cutting and pasting' I have been doing are from my own copies of the course books.
I have been cycling for 44 years. My younger days were with the MC&AC racing round Birmingham's track. My 'unofficial' coach back then was Charlie Holland's brother Alf, who ran a newsagent in Sheldon, Birmingham. Another 'unofficial' coach was Janet Crowther, partner to June Pitchford, who both rode for Stourbridge.
My framebuilding knowledge was gained at Venom Cycles and a little tuition by Tom Crowther.
I still ride behind Harry Reynolds... a long way behind... 0 -
What about Secondary school education?0
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or how many paper-rounds?0
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Riding a bicycle isn't difficult, if the person who rides the bike has suitable genetics.
A person who has been a fat bloater at some time in their life will never be a good cyclist. I've seen lots of these type of riders.
44 years is not enough time for the human genome to change significantly for 'bicycle riding' to warrant a new chromosome. There were thousands of crap riders in the sixties and there are thousands of crap riders today. There were 200 world class riders in the sixties and there are 200 today.
Training techniques don't matter a jot. For the likes of the Schleck Brothers, its a birthright. The others at the front of the pack, they have the correct genetics to do that activity. The riders at the back of the peleton in the major tours also have the correct genetics, but slightly different.
Not everyone can be a great cyclist. There are thousands who try, and thousands who fail. I was one of those who tried and failed.
The only difference between fifty year old training methods and the methods used today is today there are 'on-board' power meters and Heartrate recorders. How muscles work has been known for quite a while.
Just as a BTW, one of my Uncles rode a bicycle for the RAF team. He bought a Claude Butler Tour d'Angleterre, one of the first 531 bikes in 1936. He and others from the MC&AC rode regular from Birmingham to Rhyl and back in ten hours. That's 200 miles with stops for tea and cakes. That's Elite class moving on a bike weighing 22.5 lb.
Are there any members of this forum who would take that challenge?0 -
No. Most of my traIning weeks are only 10hrs tops.0
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The only difference between fifty year old training methods and the methods used today is today there are 'on-board' power meters and Heartrate recorders.
brilliant.
Onward! let us propel our velocipedes with increased haste!0
