the Cyclo cross racing post

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  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    I shed my cyclocross virginity last weekend at the York round of the Yorkshire Points series. I sensibly avoided as many good riders as possible, and entered the novice event. I managed to impress a group of fellow novice riders by falling off my bike in the car park just after completing my warmup!

    The race itself went OK, if rather painfully. Heart rate stats were indistinguishable from crit racing, and I was very glad when I crossed the start finish line for the 5th time to find a guy in a dayglo jacket signalling me to the infield rather than round for another lap.

    We were set off 2 minutes after the youth riders, and whilst the novice field was soon very split up, there was no end of action as I was lapped by a fair few of the leaders, but also dished it out to a goodly number of youngster less than a third of my age. I'll take it where I can find it!

    I came second in the novice race, 5 minutes down on the winner, who I never saw other than on the start line. I don't fancy racing in the proper 40-49 category, if only as an hour sounds like a long time to spend in the "Hurt Box". Is there an official definition of a novice? It feels like just my category standard-wise, but racing it again doesn't feel quite right.

    On an equipment note, I raced on my Boardman hybrid, and a fine steed it is as well. I've heard that flat barred bikes aren't allowed in "proper" cross events. Does anyone know if this is true?

    Thanks - and good luck to anyone racing with a hangover tomorrow!
    Congratulations on losing your CX virginity. As there aren't many more races in the season why not give the Vets a crack? Vets races are only 40-45 mins not the hour of seniors. Good news is you've now got a year to train for next season :)
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,638
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Good news is you've now got a year to train for next season :)

    Or a year to get older and slower!

    Still, compared to road and crit racing, cyclocross does seem a good way to refuse to get old gracefully, as crashing onto mud doesn't result in leaving half your backside behind!
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Good news is you've now got a year to train for next season :)

    Or a year to get older and slower!

    Still, compared to road and crit racing, cyclocross does seem a good way to refuse to get old gracefully, as crashing onto mud doesn't result in leaving half your backside behind!

    Tell that to the four guys from our race last Sunday who spent their Sunday evening in A&E...
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    VamP wrote:
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Good news is you've now got a year to train for next season :)

    Or a year to get older and slower!

    Still, compared to road and crit racing, cyclocross does seem a good way to refuse to get old gracefully, as crashing onto mud doesn't result in leaving half your backside behind!

    Tell that to the four guys from our race last Sunday who spent their Sunday evening in A&E...
    Really? What happened?
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    Big pile up in the starting sprint.
  • slam that stem
    slam that stem Posts: 104
    Was that at Footscray or elsewhere? Sorry to hear that...
    The titifers have sung their song.

    Now it's time for sleep.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    slam that stem wrote:
    Was that at Footscray or elsewhere? Sorry to hear that...

    Snetterton. No lasting damage thankfully.
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    Forecast for Welwyn Garden City tomorrow calls for a wet suit and really long studs :(
  • antsmithmk
    antsmithmk Posts: 717
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Forecast for Welwyn Garden City tomorrow calls for a wet suit and really long studs :(

    I've already ditched the club jersey and packed the gabba.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    How was it?
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
    https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
    Facebook? No. Just say no.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    bendertherobot wrote:
    How was it?

    Scrumptious.
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    A great course, soaking wet and muddy obviously but would've been fun if I hadn't ended the race with a mechanical after half a lap :( Got massive chain suck so every time I went to power out of a corner or up a climb the pedals just locked up. I couldn't fix it and didn't feel like running for 45mins so DNF'd. A bit annoyed, it seems to happen in the same conditions but never any other time so first time was the first Milton Keynes race and now today, so when it's really wet mud that doesn't stick to the bike I get chain suck but if it's dry or really sticky mud nothing......well as it's my last race for the season I've got 8 months to sort it out I guess just disappointing to finish it that way as I really enjoyed my warm up lap and missed the first three pile ups too.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    A great course, soaking wet and muddy obviously but would've been fun if I hadn't ended the race with a mechanical after half a lap :( Got massive chain suck so every time I went to power out of a corner or up a climb the pedals just locked up. I couldn't fix it and didn't feel like running for 45mins so DNF'd. A bit annoyed, it seems to happen in the same conditions but never any other time so first time was the first Milton Keynes race and now today, so when it's really wet mud that doesn't stick to the bike I get chain suck but if it's dry or really sticky mud nothing......well as it's my last race for the season I've got 8 months to sort it out I guess just disappointing to finish it that way as I really enjoyed my warm up lap and missed the first three pile ups too.

    I've got 4 letters for you

    SSCX... that's what you need. Gears are bollox, what do you need them for? 90% of the course is non technical pretty flattish... steep banks are too steep to ride anyway and the only technical challenge is the mud, which gears don't help to overcome, tyres do... IF I was racing, I'd get a single speed with flat pedals and minimise the risk of mechanicals and hassles. I don't get why folks waste money in gears to race in the mud, really...
    left the forum March 2023
  • devhads
    devhads Posts: 236
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    A great course, soaking wet and muddy obviously but would've been fun if I hadn't ended the race with a mechanical after half a lap :( Got massive chain suck so every time I went to power out of a corner or up a climb the pedals just locked up. I couldn't fix it and didn't feel like running for 45mins so DNF'd. A bit annoyed, it seems to happen in the same conditions but never any other time so first time was the first Milton Keynes race and now today, so when it's really wet mud that doesn't stick to the bike I get chain suck but if it's dry or really sticky mud nothing......well as it's my last race for the season I've got 8 months to sort it out I guess just disappointing to finish it that way as I really enjoyed my warm up lap and missed the first three pile ups too.

    Sounds like a chainring problem, time to go single chainring maybe, go on you know you want to. I managed to get held up by the first pile up for the third race in a row. Tip to anyone racing with me in the future don't line up either directly in front or behind me, I'm bad luck. Really enjoyed it today, the washing machine is groaning now on it's second wash in succession.
    I've got 4 letters for you

    SSCX... that's what you need. Gears are bollox, what do you need them for? 90% of the course is non technical pretty flattish... steep banks are too steep to ride anyway and the only technical challenge is the mud, which gears don't help to overcome, tyres do... IF I was racing, I'd get a single speed with flat pedals and minimise the risk of mechanicals and hassles. I don't get why folks waste money in gears to race in the mud, really...

    I am thinking of getting a SSCX for next year but not for Welwyn, you'd be running far more than 10% of the course. Might use it for courses like Grafham, fairly flat and really hard on equipment.

    Good luck to all in the Nationals tomorrow.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    VamP wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    How was it?

    Scrumptious.
    ^ this. That perfect type of mud that makes the corners and power climbs tricky, without sticking to the bike and clogging things up. Combined with one of my favourite courses I was having a great time, especially as I was almost keeping up with VamP :-)

    Very annoyingly crashed on the last lap, busting the mech hanger, and had to run a quarter of a lap to the pit, watching all my opponents running past. My own fault though; that classic situation where you don't trust the tyres, even though you know you should, and let the front wheel wash out. 15/17psi was plenty grippy when I had faith in the bike.

    Ugo - why don't you come to a race and show us all how much faster you are than us ignorant gear-users? :-)

    Sheep - was thinking about this on the way home. Assume you were on the small ring - what rings do you have (specifically what difference between rings) and is your chain the absolute shortest it could be? I suspect the underlying issue may be low chain tension. The real answer to your woes may be single chainring and a mech which gives you a higher chain tension - I use SRAM MTB clutch mechs, but if you're on Shimano you should talk to the guy in your club that I mentioned this afternoon, as I'm pretty sure he's on Shimano.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • devhads
    devhads Posts: 236
    TGOTB wrote:
    VamP wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    How was it?

    Scrumptious.
    ^ this. That perfect type of mud that makes the corners and power climbs tricky, without sticking to the bike and clogging things up. Combined with one of my favourite courses I was having a great time, especially as I was almost keeping up with VamP :-)

    Very annoyingly crashed on the last lap, busting the mech hanger, and had to run a quarter of a lap to the pit, watching all my opponents running past. My own fault though; that classic situation where you don't trust the tyres, even though you know you should, and let the front wheel wash out. 15/17psi was plenty grippy when I had faith in the bike.

    Ugo - why don't you come to a race and show us all how much faster you are than us ignorant gear-users? :-)

    Sheep - was thinking about this on the way home. Assume you were on the small ring - what rings do you have (specifically what difference between rings) and is your chain the absolute shortest it could be? I suspect the underlying issue may be low chain tension. The real answer to your woes may be single chainring and a mech which gives you a higher chain tension - I use SRAM MTB clutch mechs, but if you're on Shimano you should talk to the guy in your club that I mentioned this afternoon, as I'm pretty sure he's on Shimano.

    Shimano mechs come with two tension settings, factory default is low, you'd need to change it to high. Depending on the mech this can be a PITA or a five minute job. New Ultegra is easy, 105 a bit tougher. Older Tiagra a pain and anything below Tiagra, I don't even think you can do it. Certainly can't on Sora. No Shimano MTB clutch mechs currently work with STIs so that's not an option.
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    Now that I think about it, last time this happened I changed the jockey wheels and had no problems. Will have a look at them tomorrow. Will also check the tension point of the spring and might tighten it even if jockey wheels are the solution.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,313
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Now that I think about it, last time this happened I changed the jockey wheels and had no problems. Will have a look at them tomorrow. Will also check the tension point of the spring and might tighten it even if jockey wheels are the solution.

    You don't need to change them, but if used in the mud they need frequent servicing. I strip mine every month or so and repack them with grease. They run dry in no time at all this time of the year.
    left the forum March 2023
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Now that I think about it, last time this happened I changed the jockey wheels and had no problems. Will have a look at them tomorrow. Will also check the tension point of the spring and might tighten it even if jockey wheels are the solution.
    Sounds a lot like chain tension. The inevitable friction in the jockey wheels is allowing the chain to pull the mech backwards; the tension in the bottom part of the chain is acting in the opposite direction. As soon as the friction is enough to overcome that, the mech gets pulled backwards and it's game over. Apart from making sure you clear all the grass out of your mech before the start, the only thing you can really do is increase the chain tension. If you feel it happening, you might be able to improve things by shifting to the big ring (if gradient/conditions allow) and/or making sure you're on a large sprocket at the back.

    Reducing jockey wheel friction is fine, but there are always going to be times when the bearings are full of mud and the cage is full of grass.

    As a short-term fix, can you get away with removing a couple of chain links? You really want the chain as short as possible.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    TGOTB wrote:
    cyclingsheep wrote:
    Now that I think about it, last time this happened I changed the jockey wheels and had no problems. Will have a look at them tomorrow. Will also check the tension point of the spring and might tighten it even if jockey wheels are the solution.
    Sounds a lot like chain tension. The inevitable friction in the jockey wheels is allowing the chain to pull the mech backwards; the tension in the bottom part of the chain is acting in the opposite direction. As soon as the friction is enough to overcome that, the mech gets pulled backwards and it's game over. Apart from making sure you clear all the grass out of your mech before the start, the only thing you can really do is increase the chain tension. If you feel it happening, you might be able to improve things by shifting to the big ring (if gradient/conditions allow) and/or making sure you're on a large sprocket at the back.

    Reducing jockey wheel friction is fine, but there are always going to be times when the bearings are full of mud and the cage is full of grass.

    As a short-term fix, can you get away with removing a couple of chain links? You really want the chain as short as possible.
    Like I said, today was my last race of the season so I've got plenty of time to get it sorted. Thinking of stripping the whole bike down and changing a few things anyway. One of the things I want to change is switch to Euro braking, it's a piece of mind thing, on the road bike I'm happy putting more power through the front as I'm surer of the grip but would rather have it rear for CX.
  • antsmithmk
    antsmithmk Posts: 717
    TGOTB wrote:
    VamP wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    How was it?

    Scrumptious.
    ^ this. That perfect type of mud that makes the corners and power climbs tricky, without sticking to the bike and clogging things up. Combined with one of my favourite courses I was having a great time, especially as I was almost keeping up with VamP :-)

    Very annoyingly crashed on the last lap, busting the mech hanger, and had to run a quarter of a lap to the pit, watching all my opponents running past. My own fault though; that classic situation where you don't trust the tyres, even though you know you should, and let the front wheel wash out. 15/17psi was plenty grippy when I had faith in the bike.

    Ugo - why don't you come to a race and show us all how much faster you are than us ignorant gear-users? :-)

    Sheep - was thinking about this on the way home. Assume you were on the small ring - what rings do you have (specifically what difference between rings) and is your chain the absolute shortest it could be? I suspect the underlying issue may be low chain tension. The real answer to your woes may be single chainring and a mech which gives you a higher chain tension - I use SRAM MTB clutch mechs, but if you're on Shimano you should talk to the guy in your club that I mentioned this afternoon, as I'm pretty sure he's on Shimano.

    Are you guys vets? I was in the seniors and it had stoppstopped raining by 2pm. The mud was very very sticky and it was a really really hard course! Had good fun, didn't come last, didn't break me or the bike! It has taken me about 3 hour to clean everything up mind!
  • cyclingsheep
    cyclingsheep Posts: 640
    antsmithmk wrote:
    TGOTB wrote:
    VamP wrote:
    bendertherobot wrote:
    How was it?

    Scrumptious.
    ^ this. That perfect type of mud that makes the corners and power climbs tricky, without sticking to the bike and clogging things up. Combined with one of my favourite courses I was having a great time, especially as I was almost keeping up with VamP :-)

    Very annoyingly crashed on the last lap, busting the mech hanger, and had to run a quarter of a lap to the pit, watching all my opponents running past. My own fault though; that classic situation where you don't trust the tyres, even though you know you should, and let the front wheel wash out. 15/17psi was plenty grippy when I had faith in the bike.

    Ugo - why don't you come to a race and show us all how much faster you are than us ignorant gear-users? :-)

    Sheep - was thinking about this on the way home. Assume you were on the small ring - what rings do you have (specifically what difference between rings) and is your chain the absolute shortest it could be? I suspect the underlying issue may be low chain tension. The real answer to your woes may be single chainring and a mech which gives you a higher chain tension - I use SRAM MTB clutch mechs, but if you're on Shimano you should talk to the guy in your club that I mentioned this afternoon, as I'm pretty sure he's on Shimano.

    Are you guys vets? I was in the seniors and it had stoppstopped raining by 2pm. The mud was very very sticky and it was a really really hard course! Had good fun, didn't come last, didn't break me or the bike! It has taken me about 3 hour to clean everything up mind!
    Yep TGOTB and I are both Vets, as are VamP and devhads. CX is the new golf :wink:
  • antsmithmk
    antsmithmk Posts: 717
    Well next time can you leave me a strip of grass please! The mud got really sticky towards the end of our race... Lots of broken mechs. Also I timed it really wrong on being lapped and ended up somehow racing for 75mins. My legs are dead today!
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    One of the joys of being an old fart is being able to give the course a really good trashing before you young upstarts get your hands on it...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    So how was Derby?
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    TGOTB wrote:
    So how was Derby?

    Demolition Derby you mean? Not a good day for me, one blown sidewall, one ripped mech, one busted wheel. A pit crew miracle somehow magicked up a spare wheel so I could at least complete the race.

    A mountain to climb to get two working bikes in time for Abergavenny!

    Very cold morning so the course started rock hard icy, but gradually thawed out giving massively changing conditions from lap to lap. Quite fun actually, if I don't dwell on the finishing position.
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Ouch! Well done getting to the finish line without getting lapped, and best of luck getting everything sorted this week!

    Pray for rain too. From the event's Twitter field, it sounds like we can expect very sticky mud if it's not kept well-watered...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • bendertherobot
    bendertherobot Posts: 11,684
    Not a hugely wet week in prospect. Abergavenny looks to be dry-ish. But there will be some rain. So it might end up sticky. Showery on Saturday and Sunday. But the main feature is the wind. Do you like wind?
    My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
    https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
    Facebook? No. Just say no.
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    TGOTB wrote:
    Ouch! Well done getting to the finish line without getting lapped, and best of luck getting everything sorted this week!

    Pray for rain too. From the event's Twitter field, it sounds like we can expect very sticky mud if it's not kept well-watered...


    The importance of having pit crew! I am blessed with a miracle working one 8)
  • VamP
    VamP Posts: 674
    bendertherobot wrote:
    Not a hugely wet week in prospect. Abergavenny looks to be dry-ish. But there will be some rain. So it might end up sticky. Showery on Saturday and Sunday. But the main feature is the wind. Do you like wind?

    I have learned that weather cares little for forecasts, but where are you looking? The one in front of me has rain Wednesday through Saturday...

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