Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

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Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    frenchfighter wrote:
    why do we only know about this now?

    Probably because it took this long for someone to leak it.
    _
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    It seems Beautiful Bert was aware of this. Funny how he's not brought it up before?

    Also, can anyone remember at the time there were 2 tests done close together (same day). One with clen, one without?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    iainf72 wrote:
    It seems Beautiful Bert was aware of this. Funny how he's not brought it up before?

    Also, can anyone remember at the time there were 2 tests done close together (same day). One with clen, one without?

    There's a lot going on behind the scenes - we're only getting the odd yelp through the wall.
    _
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Well, Bertie's officially lodged his appeal with CAS. I'm not sure it's the wisest move.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-submits-appeal-against-clenbuterol-ban
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • natrix
    natrix Posts: 1,111
    Rather than going through 119 pages of debate, can anybody tell me if Contador has been stripped of his yellow jersey??
    ~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    barnesr wrote:
    Rather than going through 119 pages of debate, can anybody tell me if Contador has been stripped of his yellow jersey??

    He hasn't, no.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • natrix
    natrix Posts: 1,111
    Thanks for that 8)
    ~~~~~~Sustrans - Join the Movement~~~~~~
  • josame
    josame Posts: 1,162
    CN:
    Contador defence team denies that the traces of Clenbuterol could arise from blood doping, claiming that his UCI Biological Passport showed no signs of blood manipulation and that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol.

    Can anyone explain how they reach that conclusion...
    'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    josame wrote:
    CN:
    Contador defence team denies that the traces of Clenbuterol could arise from blood doping, claiming that his UCI Biological Passport showed no signs of blood manipulation and that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol.

    Can anyone explain how they reach that conclusion...

    lawsuit-cash-advance-hand-to-hand.jpg
    _
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    josame wrote:
    CN:
    Contador defence team denies that the traces of Clenbuterol could arise from blood doping, claiming that his UCI Biological Passport showed no signs of blood manipulation and that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol.

    Can anyone explain how they reach that conclusion...

    I take it they're simply ignoring the fact that it doesn't matter how it got there...
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    josame wrote:
    CN:
    Contador defence team denies that the traces of Clenbuterol could arise from blood doping, claiming that his UCI Biological Passport showed no signs of blood manipulation and that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol.

    Can anyone explain how they reach that conclusion...

    I take it they're simply ignoring the fact that it doesn't matter how it got there...

    But it does matter how it got there. If they can prove it was by mistake, under the rules (as I read them) there is wiggle room. This is the whole point offhand argument otherwise there would be no point trying to defend their position.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Currently, Bert seems to be following the Landis playbook to the letter. If he's really not able to see where that can lead, at this of all times, then he deserves everything he gets.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • josame
    josame Posts: 1,162
    Sorry to clarify it was this bit that I didn't get
    "that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol."
    'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Surely the rules as they stand ate that clen is banned, if you have it in you system you get banned?

    Accidental ingestion doesn't come into it, unless I've missed a change in the laws.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    josame wrote:
    Sorry to clarify it was this bit that I didn't get
    "that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol."

    A huge amount of clen-tainted blood transfused back into the body.

    And the Yellow jersey will be taken away once all appeals are dismissed, etc.
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    edited February 2011
    josame wrote:
    Sorry to clarify it was this bit that I didn't get
    "that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol."

    If Bert had been taking clenbuterol at the TdF in medically useful quantities, he'd then have need a large volume of clean blood to either flush all clen traces from his system or to dilute the residual clen down to the 50 pg level. The intake of such a large volume of stored blood would completely screw up his passport readings.
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Surely the rules as they stand ate that clen is banned, if you have it in you system you get banned?

    Accidental ingestion doesn't come into it, unless I've missed a change in the laws.

    No, if you can prove it was accidental you can get the bad reduced.

    *if you can prove* being the key phrase. Absolutely nothing that has come from Bert's camp so far suggests that they can.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Surely the rules as they stand ate that clen is banned, if you have it in you system you get banned?

    Accidental ingestion doesn't come into it, unless I've missed a change in the laws.

    From the Cycling News article:

    'Article 296 of the UCI’s anti-doping regulations states that a ban can be eliminated “if the rider establishes… that he bears No Fault or Negligence,” although it is up to the rider to “establish how the Prohibited Substance entered his system in order to have the period of Ineligibility eliminated.'
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    josame wrote:
    Sorry to clarify it was this bit that I didn't get
    "that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol."

    Well this is the thing:

    Everyone understands that it is impossible to have that little amount of Clen in your system by administering it yourself.

    It is also such an insignificant amount that it wont have any benefit.

    Therefore the whole argument of the people who think it dopes hangs on the fact they think he was blood doping.

    The other explanation, widely held by all experts to be true is that it was ingested from meat.

    In direct answer to your question I am not sure exactly what they mean: it certainly isnt clear.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Btw, they are also using:
    O.J. Mayo, of the NBA’s Memphis Grizzlies, who was suspended for only ten games after a positive for DHEA.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    frenchfighter wrote:
    The other explanation, held by all experts engaged by Contador's defence team to be true is that it was ingested from meat. This has been challenged by other experts who point out that Clenbuterol contaminated meat in the EU is almost unheard of.
    Fixed that for you.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    It's more of an issue because Contador made such a thing of it being such a tiny amount.


    Zero zero zero zero zero zzzzzzz.....
    _
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    frenchfighter wrote:
    josame wrote:
    Sorry to clarify it was this bit that I didn't get
    "that a huge quantity of blood would be needed to reach a level of 50 picgrammes/ml of Clenbuterol."

    Well this is the thing:

    Everyone understands that it is impossible to have that little amount of Clen in your system by administering it yourself.

    It is also such an insignificant amount that it wont have any benefit.

    Therefore the whole argument of the people who think it dopes hangs on the fact they think he was blood doping.

    The other explanation, widely held by all experts to be true is that it was ingested from meat.

    In direct answer to your question I am not sure exactly what they mean: it certainly isnt clear.

    It depends on how much was taken and when (in relation to the test) to see if it could be self-administered although it is doubtful that it would have any benefit during the race even in a larger dose.

    As for it being agreed by 'all experts' that it could ONLY have come from meat is a statement put out by Contador's legal team. I'm sure all THEIR experts agree. I'm not sure ALL experts agree. Or he wouldn't have received ANY ban.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    On Wednesday July 21, the second rest day of the Tour, his samples showed the presence of Clenbuterol at 50 picograms per millilitre. This dropped to16 picograms the following day, decreased further to 7 picograms/ml two days later (July 24) and then increased again to 17 picograms/ml on July 25th.

    Jesús Munoz Guerra, director of the Laboratory of Madrid, told Marca that “a rebound in concentration of Clenbuterol from 7 to 17 picograms is more likely an error in estimation of the concentration rather than a second microdose.” The reference to a microdose presumably refers to the hypothesis that the Clenbuterol could have entered his system via a blood transfusion.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Btw, they are also using:
    O.J. Mayo, of the NBA’s Memphis Grizzlies, who was suspended for only ten games after a positive for DHEA.

    Using US sports as a guideline for for suspensions isn't going to wash, I'm afraid.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Same response to you as I said about Gasquet. I don't care. Personally I don't think they should use other people as precendents too much anyway. Everything else in the case outside of the people they are using should be sufficient to clear him.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    I'm not sure the NBA imposes hefty sanctions for the use of banned substances. So the comparison is somewhat moot
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Even though clen was found 4 days running and even though it went up (in a miniscule amount on the 4th day) I would concede that it is ALL from one source.

    But not from ingested meat.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited February 2011
    Double post
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Especially given that the NBA's schedule makes a ten game ban akin to 2 weeks
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent

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