Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
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Data collected at a crime scene can be stored forever. Data taken from a suspect - not necessarily. Perhaps you don't remember when judgets ordered millions of DNA samples taken from innocent individuals to be destroyed, saying that keeping a database of the samples was a violation of human rights?meggiedude wrote:Its not anyone and everyone being given samples for testing.
WADA/UCI should ensure the samples are held securely and only send out the samples to specific authorised labs.
Whats the issue with future tests proving guilt or innocence. Its no different to new police forensic methods catching guilty parties years after they have committed crimes.
All these riders have signed up to these races on the premis they are clean. They should not have any issue with the authorites testing their samples whenever they like.
But anyway - this is getting just slightly off topic
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surista wrote:Well, I suspect that there would be those that would always 'doubt my intergrity' regardless of what I did - just look at the 9/11 truthers or those that believe the moon landings were a hoax. Lord knows there are people out there who will willfully ignore any and all evidence to hold on to their tinfoil hat or otherwise irrational positions (cough cough*FF*cough cough).
So I would not *freely* offer anything. I would happily give whatever they had a warrant for, and I'd have a lawyer beside me the entire way.
But then surely you wouldn't whinge about how unfair the whole thing was and how a great injustice was being done and that lots of folk that once liked you now thought that you were a bit of a c*ck...0 -
Not sure what your point is....?Garry H wrote:surista wrote:Well, I suspect that there would be those that would always 'doubt my intergrity' regardless of what I did - just look at the 9/11 truthers or those that believe the moon landings were a hoax. Lord knows there are people out there who will willfully ignore any and all evidence to hold on to their tinfoil hat or otherwise irrational positions (cough cough*FF*cough cough).
So I would not *freely* offer anything. I would happily give whatever they had a warrant for, and I'd have a lawyer beside me the entire way.
But then surely you wouldn't whinge about how unfair the whole thing was and how a great injustice was being done and that lots of folk that once liked you now thought that you were a bit of a c*ck...0 -
I do mate. Does not mean I necessarily agree with that decision. As you say though that is off-topicsurista wrote:
Perhaps you don't remember when judgets ordered millions of DNA samples taken from innocent individuals to be destroyed, saying that keeping a database of the samples was a violation of human rights?meggiedude wrote:Its not anyone and everyone being given samples for testing.
WADA/UCI should ensure the samples are held securely and only send out the samples to specific authorised labs.
Whats the issue with future tests proving guilt or innocence. Its no different to new police forensic methods catching guilty parties years after they have committed crimes.
All these riders have signed up to these races on the premis they are clean. They should not have any issue with the authorites testing their samples whenever they like.
But anyway - this is getting just slightly off topic Can I upgrade???0 -
LOL - indeed. We might have to agree to disagree on that aspect.
Lord, what will they say, us being all civil and all.0 -
Rhods wrote:
However the main reason fo my post is the fact that I saw a certain Michael Rasmussen speaking out in contador's defence on cyclingnews! the fact that he is speaking in your defence can't be a a great thing pr wise. But more than that, he says that they should "judge what is performance enhancing" that proves this guy hasn't changed. As has been well verserd, the worry is that it is also an attitude held by many others in the sport.
You can't use half measures to tackle this problem.
To me it's not surprising to hear MR defend AC. They know each other, are co-workers of sorts, and may be friends and that's what friends do, right or wrong. I can see their point at times. It seems that this whole doping thing has produced an exteme "us vs them" relationship in cycling. On one side you have the "blood sucking vampires" and on the other the "cheating, low life dopers". It's a somewhat pathetic situation on both sides.
As for using "whole measures" to stop any of this, I still believe that there will always be people who will try to beat the system despite the most severe of penalties.0 -
dennisn wrote:
To me it's not surprising to hear MR defend AC. They know each other, are co-workers of sorts, and may be friends and that's what friends do, right or wrong. I can see their point at times. It seems that this whole doping thing has produced an exteme "us vs them" relationship in cycling. On one side you have the "blood sucking vampires" and on the other the "cheating, low life dopers". It's a somewhat pathetic situation on both sides.
As for using "whole measures" to stop any of this, I still believe that there will always be people who will try to beat the system despite the most severe of penalties.
Which is why as was previously suggested it's important to get the percentage of cheats caught much higher. The threat of severe punishment doesn't work, but the likelyhood of being caught would be more of a deterrent.0 -
Sorry, can't use the quote function on the mobile. But, with reference to dennisn's last post, my half measures comment was in relation to strict liability (I.e if it's found in your blood it's your fault) rather than life long bans etc. I think it must be like that or you get people wangling out of it for all sorts of reasons. E.g. If we were to take rasmussen's argument, then none of the masking agents should result in a ban. Once you add an element of subjectivity to the amount found etc, it's a big step backwards.
As others have mentioned, I don't think that life bans would stop people from taking the risk- just imagine how many are/ have been getting away with it under the present scheme- still likely to be worth it for many. Also, enforceability likely to be an issue.0 -
Well after the Hog's fine defence of Contador, here's the chicken:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/danish- ... -2010-tourMeanwhile, Contador received support from a different Danish source. Michael Rasmussen, who served a two-year doping-related suspension, called Contador's claim of contaminated meat, “the only plausible explanation, he told the Danish newspaper Ekstra Bladet.
“You have to judge what is performance enhancing. What they found Contador positive for has no performance enhancing effect. Their system leaves no room for common sense.”
Add that to the it was in the beef line and we have what is known as the Old MacDonald defence...It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
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Wow - difficult to place 100% credence on an un-named source, but this is still very damning indeed.0
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Bakunin wrote:
ouch.
Much like Landis, very plausible detail.
First incidence of whistleblowing from a kinda-current team mate for a while, if ever?___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
The Dauphiné Effect
©iainf720 -
Bakunin wrote:
Article has the ring of truth. Not heard mention of Triiodothyronine before but quick google reveals the clen/T3 combo is widely used by bodybuilders to cut fat while minimizing muscle wastage.0 -
So Astana obviously wish him all the best in his new contract with Riis.calvjones wrote:First incidence of whistleblowing from a kinda-current team mate for a while, if ever?
As Kleber pointed out previously though, this doesn't shed a good light on Astana...........unless they can claim that it was Contador's own personal preparatore who was behind this rather than team organised.0 -
Floodgates open?
Probably not but it is an interesting development.Well. Certaintly...0 -
interesting although it still seems stange he would take blood out after the Dauphine rather than earlier in the season when he would be fresher0
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sherer wrote:interesting although it still seems stange he would take blood out after the Dauphine rather than earlier in the season when he would be fresher
Then again - he would probably be taking a small break at that time and could afford to be without a pint or two and not have to worry about being run down.0 -
sherer wrote:interesting although it still seems stange he would take blood out after the Dauphine rather than earlier in the season when he would be fresher
You can't keep blood for very long. That's why the effect takes place so often.
Anyone else sub-par in races in June who were a lot better in July?
*whistles*Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
@39teeth says it isn't necessarily a rider but the Velonation article is pretty definitive that it is.Velonation wrote:Belgian magazine Humo has published claims from a rider with the Astana team, who alleges that Alberto Contador used Clenbuterol after the Criterium du Dauphiné as part of a weight-loss treatment. The rider, who spoke on condition of anonymity....
Astsna roster for the Dauphiné this year:
11 CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto ESP
12 DE LA FUENTE RASILLA David ESP
13 FOFONOV Dmitriy KAZ
14 HERNANDEZ BLAZQUEZ Jesus ESP
15 NAVARRO GARCIA Daniel ESP
16 NOVAL GONZALEZ Benjamin ESP
17 TIRALONGO Paolo ITA
18 ZEITS AndreyWell. Certaintly...0 -
Actually my tip-off was different and relates to another source of contamination.0
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iainf72 wrote:sherer wrote:interesting although it still seems stange he would take blood out after the Dauphine rather than earlier in the season when he would be fresher
You can't keep blood for very long. That's why the effect takes place so often.
Anyone else sub-par in races in June who were a lot better in July?
*whistles*
Armstrong? No hang on, he got it the wrong way round.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Kléber wrote:Actually my tip-off was different and relates to another source of contamination.
You mean it was actually Lance who tested positive? But he secretly paid the UCI $10 million to switch the samples and stitch his old pal Bertie up instead? Oh, that Lance - such a joker!
So a different source of contamination!? How many different ways did he get this into his system!?0 -
Astsna roster for the Dauphiné this year:
11 CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto ESP
12 DE LA FUENTE RASILLA David ESP
13 FOFONOV Dmitriy KAZ
14 HERNANDEZ BLAZQUEZ Jesus ESP
15 NAVARRO GARCIA Daniel ESP
16 NOVAL GONZALEZ Benjamin ESP
17 TIRALONGO Paolo ITA
18 ZEITS Andrey
Why spilled the beans?
Fofonov or Zeits? Vino?
How does this benefit Astana?0 -
Kléber wrote:The Dauphiné Effect
©iainf72
i guess it was obvious after all"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Bakunin wrote:Astsna roster for the Dauphiné this year:
11 CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto ESP
12 DE LA FUENTE RASILLA David ESP
13 FOFONOV Dmitriy KAZ
14 HERNANDEZ BLAZQUEZ Jesus ESP
15 NAVARRO GARCIA Daniel ESP
16 NOVAL GONZALEZ Benjamin ESP
17 TIRALONGO Paolo ITA
18 ZEITS Andrey
Why spilled the beans?
Fofonov or Zeits? Vino?
How does this benefit Astana?
It's not necessarily anyone who was at Dauphine. But of that lot I'd guess De La Fuente. Was reported to be joining the AC Saxo gravy train, then wasn't. Revenge for a betrayal? (He'll be at Geox next year)
My non-Dauphine guess would be Allan Davis, as he's the only one to have ridden in Belgium for a Belgian team recently (the journo must have had an existing relationship with the rider). Has known Contador since he was a neo-pro and is also supposedly leaving Astana. He's probably p1ssed off at still being called a Puertoista by some.
But I hope the rider gets to keep his anonimity as he's put his head above the parapet.Twitter: @RichN950 -
How does this rider know so much about clen and tri. A rider who would want to bring Contador down by saying this to the media is not the type of rider I would imagine would be close enough to Contador to know these inner workings.
How does an overweight rider ride aggressively and prominently in all the mountains.
How does an overweight rider win atop l'Alpe.
Why would a rider taking clen ride to win stages when those riders are the most likely to be tested.
On what evidence are these accustations made. Did the rider see the clen-taking or removal of blood. Or was he told that he was doing it. Was he doing it himself.
Why do they want to remian anonymous.
These are the questions that come to mind.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Poor Riis though........................he doesn't deserve that now does he? :roll:
I guess he should make up with stewy he hee!!'REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE
SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM'0
No need for wacky theories. Like I say, it could all be rather obvious.
