Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
Comments
-
I haven't seen you on your bike m8, so can't commentTimoid. wrote:I'm still confused. Am I slow?Can I upgrade???0 -
Can't you tell, its obvious...No tA Doctor wrote:Kléber wrote:
No need for wacky theories. Like I say, it could all be rather obvious.
Hopefully this will come out soon, I've got it as a tip-off from a journalist and hopefully they will run with it.
Can you at least tell us if it's obvious and bad for Bertie or obvious and good for him?
Kléber, cut the BS, Fess up.
No point dangling stuff out there - at least offer something up other than this "I've left clues' or 'it could be obvious' cr*pCan I upgrade???0 -
-
jimmythecuckoo wrote:I am soooooo lost !
If you play The Beatles Helter Skelter backwards you'll understand, the message is in there.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I'm also lost - it was far easier to undertand the clues when that amateur rider's positive hadn't been confirmed. Can't we have subtle clues similar to those please?
0 -
I hope its not stupid question, but how long before an event do the transfusions take place, and aren't there any tell tale marks or bruising, or have the docs found a way round that?The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
It's not that I don't get the clues - I don't even get what the issue is in the first place.
There's a positive test for Clembuterol.
There's an alleged positive on a new test for DEHP, implying a transfusion.
What more is there? Are we trying to work out what colour of pants he was wearing, or what?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
So, when the officials at the Tour take samples from riders, what sort of containers are the samples stored in?0
-
Cleat Eastwood wrote:I hope its not stupid question, but how long before an event do the transfusions take place, and aren't there any tell tale marks or bruising, or have the docs found a way round that?
I would assume during the off season, prob during winter training. Not sure how long blood can be stored but it needs to be either doped blood to have an effect, or rested blood packed with more red blood cells. Taking blood out during the season won't help as much as you will already be using up your energy0 -
Yeah but the plastisizers are absorbed by blood. The sampes taken in plastic containers are wee. So their presence still indicates transfusion.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0
-
There have been tales of make-up, plus riders using long socks to cover up the marks after infusion on their legs. In the short time trials it is used in the morning, but for difficult stages where there would be a lot of attacks, it is injected the previous day.sherer wrote:Cleat Eastwood wrote:I hope its not stupid question, but how long before an event do the transfusions take place, and aren't there any tell tale marks or bruising, or have the docs found a way round that?0 -
Dave_1 wrote:am not sure the plasticizer test is totally up to scratch yet...how many other ways can plastic get into the bloodstream?
AIUI its not plastic from the bags per say but a "lining chemical treatment" for IV bags..
ie it doesn't [despite its name] leech out of all plastic containers but is a specific additive for specialized plastics to increase there handling qualities"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:bompington wrote:
Very few: if you've done your homework, or even read this thread through, you'll know that they aren't absorbed through the gut - so intravenous is the only way.Dave_1 wrote:am not sure the plasticizer test is totally up to scratch yet...how many other ways can plastic get into the bloodstream?
As I understood it, firstly they're looking for a specific plasticiser, which is widely used in medical equipment (presumably not elsewhere). Though it can be absorbed through the gut this is only in minimal quantities, nothing like the amount you'd get from a transfusion. So I'm guessing that part of the procedure of verifying this protocol will be to set a maximum permitted level.
I stand to be corrected....
that is what i understand as well"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
presumably the lab would have not carried out the DEHP test if the samples had been stored in DEHP leaching containers, just a hunch :roll:0
-
easy to test, container from same batch as sample, add water/saline/urine analogue (blank). sit in same conditions, test sample and blank, positive in test, positive in blank = present, unsubstantiated. Positive in test, negative in blank = we have something here we shouldn't have.FCN 120
-
why is the + for plasticisers the day before the + for clen? I thought the clen and plasticisers would occur on the same day0
-
Dave_1 wrote:why is the + for plasticisers the day before the + for clen? I thought the clen and plasticisers would occur on the same day
IF the clen and plasticisers are the result of the same transfusion, the plasticisers are expelled far more rapidly. From figures I've read, after 24 hours, about 90% of plastcisers are expelled versus only about 15% of clenbuterol.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
Dave_1 wrote:why is the + for plasticisers the day before the + for clen? I thought the clen and plasticisers would occur on the same day
dunno
X2 dose squezzing a little in a day so as not to spike the crit tests?
second had the bute?
but yeah we dont know WTF we are talking about really
still ... bet he is a blood doping off season clenbuterol injecting cheat though"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
iainf72 wrote:Dave_1 wrote:why is the + for plasticisers the day before the + for clen? I thought the clen and plasticisers would occur on the same day
Nope. It seems your body would try to expell the plasticisers quicker.
there you go..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I'm surprised no one else has tested positive for plastic pee - even if it's not valid, you would think there would be 'leaks' (pardon the pun) on other results.0
-
Its not an approved test so you'd only use it on samples where you had certain suspicions.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0
-
Presumably anyone involved in blood doping is now seeking out non-plastic transfusion equipment.
So, unless the authorities can test samples retrospectively, the new plasticiser test will amount to nothing.0 -
The sequence in which the plasticisers and clenbuterol appear would seem to indicate a transfusion on the night of the 19th. The following day's stage was a tough one and Bert had only 8 seconds over an undoubtedly p!ssed-off Schleck - so there is undoubtedly an incentive for "assistance".
Transfusion on the 19th (or perhaps early on the 20th), plasticisers, being expelled early, appear in the post-stage sample on the 20th but the clenbuterol residues haven't appeared yet. The next (rest) day, the clen now appears but most of the plasticisers have been eliminated.
Mind you, all this assumes that Klebers bombshell doesn't involve Andy Schleck sticking clen patches to the back of Contadors head during the stage.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
LangerDan wrote:The sequence in which the plasticisers and clenbuterol appear would seem to indicate a transfusion on the night of the 19th. The following day's stage was a tough one and Bert had only 8 seconds over an undoubtedly p!ssed-off Schleck - so there is undoubtedly an incentive for "assistance".
Transfusion on the 19th (or perhaps early on the 20th), plasticisers, being expelled early, appear in the post-stage sample on the 20th but the clenbuterol residues haven't appeared yet. The next (rest) day, the clen now appears but most of the plasticisers have been eliminated.
Mind you, all this assumes that Klebers bombshell doesn't involve Andy Schleck sticking clen patches to the back of Contadors head during the stage.
Could it be that the earlier test detected plasticizers but not clen because it was done at a lab that can't detect such low levels of clen (and possibly other contaminants), this raised alarm bells for the testers who then sent the next day's sample off to the other lab to see if there was anything in it that they could nail Bertie with (given that the plasticizer test is still to be verified)?
Just another entirely unsubstantiated theory...0 -
slojo wrote:Presumably anyone involved in blood doping is now seeking out non-plastic transfusion equipment.
I doubt that the transfusion equipment as such will be an issue as the blood has only limited contact time with the tubing. The issue is the IV bags due the extended contact time between the bag and contents. Plasticiser-free bags have been available for the past 30 years - the only issue is whether they are suitable for the storing of blood or plasma. If they are, the test will have a fairly short useful life.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
MatHammond wrote:
Could it be that the earlier test detected plasticizers but not clen because it was done at a lab that can't detect such low levels of clen (and possibly other contaminants), this raised alarm bells for the testers who then sent the next day's sample off to the other lab to see if there was anything in it that they could nail Bertie with (given that the plasticizer test is still to be verified)?
Just another entirely unsubstantiated theory...
Possibly, though I think all the Tour samples were going to Cologne and Lausanne anyway.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0
