Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol

timoid.

“[Contador] is falling. The big champions are falling. It’s like that," said Sylvain Chavanel, the Quickstep rider who had two separate stints in the race leader’s maillot jaune during July’s Tour de France.

"It’s always disappointing to see things like this, but it’s good that we’ve reached a point where things are being found,” he continued.

"The levels [of clenbuterol] might be low, but there are traces there all the same. It’s up to Contador to prove his innocence."

Francaise des Jeux rider Yoann Offredo was even more forthright than Chavanel in his views on the Spanish rider’s problems.

It’s a story that we’ve been expecting," he said to RMC.fr, according to the Herald Sun. "We’re not unduly surprised. A little [surprised] about the clenbuterol because we’d really have expected something else. It’s like the tree that hides the forest.

"Right now, amongst the riders, I can tell you that we’re not that shocked," he added

Very telling. Not too many tears for Alberto

pb21

Flanners1 wrote:

Says he may jack it all in. Riders quotes from Chavanel and Offredo if true are very tell tale.....

http://road.cc/content/news/25099-conta ... r-his-name

"Boy, do I wish I had a piece of that meat so it could analyzed in a laboratory with the level of precision of the one in Cologne," he explained. "That is now something that is totally impossible to prove."

Totally impossible to prove, is it? I would have expected like others have said that the piece of meat could be traced to a farm?

DaveyL

As Mark Ziegler said of Floyd Landis (when the case was still in progress), he's in a sport that has had a massive history of doping and he won the biggest, hardest event in that sport. You decide.

To add to what iain said, anyone who is *convinced* any Tour winner since the early 90s is clean, is a raving moron. I'm afraid serious doubt has to be the default position.

mrushton

Frank wasn't implicated, it was just a few thousand Euros sort of got misdirected or transferred

Gazzaputt

Totally agree here.

2 riders give interviews saying the peleton aren't surprised at what has happened is pretty damning.

nickwill

I'm not surprised!
I always thought that it was significant that there had been a scramble to get away from Saxo Bank afterContador was signed.
The first year he won the Tour, L'Equpe was full of veiled and not so veiled hints about the validity of his win.

iainf72

Nickwill wrote:

I'm not surprised!
I always thought that it was significant that there had been a scramble to get away from Saxo Bank afterContador was signed.
The first year he won the Tour, L'Equpe was full of veiled and not so veiled hints about the validity of his win.

To be fair, a lot of the exodus was before Contador signed.

mrushton

pb21 wrote:

Flanners1 wrote:

Says he may jack it all in. Riders quotes from Chavanel and Offredo if true are very tell tale.....

http://road.cc/content/news/25099-conta ... r-his-name

"Boy, do I wish I had a piece of that meat so it could analyzed in a laboratory with the level of precision of the one in Cologne," he explained. "That is now something that is totally impossible to prove."

Totally impossible to prove, is it? I would have expected like others have said that the piece of meat could be traced to a farm?

Innerring had an article that explained if the butcher who sold the meat could be found then under Euro rules the meat stocked can be traced back to the original animal that was numbered and logged from birth

http://theinnerring.blogspot.com/search ... -results=7

frenchfighter

Timoid. wrote:

“[Contador] is falling. The big champions are falling. It’s like that," said Sylvain Chavanel, the Quickstep rider who had two separate stints in the race leader’s maillot jaune during July’s Tour de France.

"It’s always disappointing to see things like this, but it’s good that we’ve reached a point where things are being found,” he continued.

"The levels [of clenbuterol] might be low, but there are traces there all the same. It’s up to Contador to prove his innocence."

Francaise des Jeux rider Yoann Offredo was even more forthright than Chavanel in his views on the Spanish rider’s problems.

It’s a story that we’ve been expecting," he said to RMC.fr, according to the Herald Sun. "We’re not unduly surprised. A little [surprised] about the clenbuterol because we’d really have expected something else. It’s like th

And what e tree that hides the forest.

"Right now, amongst the riders, I can tell you that we’re not that shocked," he added

Very telling. Not too many tears for Alberto

This is an old quote. And what do you think of what Millar and many others had to say? There are always two sides.

pb21

mrushton wrote:

Innerring had an article that explained if the butcher who sold the meat could be found then under Euro rules the meat stocked can be traced back to the original animal that was numbered and logged from birth.

Why don’t they get on the case and do it then?

Get to the source farm test other animals there, if not something from the original cow, and see what kind of drugs turn up. If nothing then you have a pretty solid case IMO!

Hardly impossible, in fact seemingly straightforward?

Yorkman

iainf72 wrote:

mroli wrote:

I want to believe that Contador is "innocent", but like Lance and the fact that there are incidents in his past, there appear to be incidents in Contador's past too. if someone could explain them away - I'd like that. Otherwise Wiggins could end up second in last year's TdF if you discount those riders with rumours against them (is Schleck A totally
clean? Wasn't Schleck F also implicated in Puerto or with Fuentes?)

Bella Jorg said regarding the initial AC that it was a reasonable assumptions that it was Contador. And keep in mind it said AC was on the same program as JJ. I know everyone likes to get excited about blood bags but I don't think there were any bags attributed to AC, only mention on a couple of pages.

Frank Schleck had hired Fuentes for "training plans". Frankly, anyone who doesn't think CSC were knee deep in it is a raving moron.

This is what stood out about Walsh's piece yesterday - he refers openly to evidence that Contador was doping with Fuentes, as opposed to the initials on one page of a document.

I wish I could find a copy online, it would open up the can of worms a bit more.

Kléber

One interesting aspect is the way Contador claims it comes from the beef. How does he know? The beef is only one angle. His food could have been spiked in the kitchen or water from a maniac roadside fan, it could be a dodgy vitamin pill or many other things. Why is the meat getting so much blame? It's only a theory, no?

timoid.

frenchfighter wrote:

This is an old quote. And what do you think of what Millar and many others had to say? There are always two sides.

Not so old. This story only broke last Thursday.

Lemond and Millar said wait until the facts are known. They haven't exactly defended him.

Sassi thinks Alberto knows the facts and should fess up:

"The only thing I hope is that in this situation, a rider like Contador will find the strength to be ready to say the truth," Sassi told the ABC.

"What the sport needs is for Contador to assume the proper attitude towards this event in order to help cycling."

Evans, Cancellara and most others are reserving judgement. The Frenchies are putting the boot in. But they have an axe to grind with Spanish cycling in general; which is utterly corrupt even by the sport's standards.

The only one that has spoke up properly in defence of Contador is Bruyneel, who ensured the logistics for transfusions from 07 - 09.

Like you I would love him to be innocent. But everytime I have watched him (and young Schleck for that matter), I'm left cold, thinking that he's basically been doing all the bad sh1t for years and getting away with it.

dougzz

Timoid. wrote:

Like you I would love him to be innocent. But everytime I have watched him (and young Schleck for that matter), I'm left cold, thinking that he's basically been doing all the bad sh1t for years and getting away with it.

I hear you. When you watch the GTs they are exciting, but if you stop and think, how many of the top 10 do you think are really clean?

I'm guessing most people would say Evans, and err err err err Maybe Brad really did win a tour

Mettan

Kléber wrote:

Why is the meat getting so much blame?

Because his team has decided that this ficticious scenario will carry a sufficient air of plausibility?

I do find it funny that Contador only has to pass the ''find some clen-infused meat'' test before he's judged innocent......... it'd be a trivial task for someone working on a farm to ensure that beef (from the farm) contained tiny traces of Clen in x-months time (or a plethora of related scenarios). I'm sure the Spanish authorites (or other interested parties) could quite easily ''find'' small traces of Clen in some local meat if they wanted to. Clen-infused meat doesn't prove anything......

sudholz

Mettan wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Why is the meat getting so much blame?

Because his team has decided that this ficticious scenario will carry a sufficient air of plausibility.

There's also a diminishing supply of excuses left in the world:

Non Cycling
Cycling

S

RichN95.

Kléber wrote:

One interesting aspect is the way Contador claims it comes from the beef. How does he know? The beef is only one angle. His food could have been spiked in the kitchen or water from a maniac roadside fan, it could be a dodgy vitamin pill or many other things. Why is the meat getting so much blame? It's only a theory, no?

Had he been spiked deliberately, the levels of Clen would have been higher. And the supplements defence is a lousy one which doesn't often succeed (and there's probably no prior suggestions of a link).

The beef is the most credible scapegoat/cause

frenchfighter

Timoid. wrote:

Like you I would love him to be innocent. But everytime I have watched him (and young Schleck for that matter), I'm left cold, thinking that he's basically been doing all the bad sh1t for years and getting away with it.

I don't understand this. It's not just you who say it either. When will you be happy? When there are no attacks. When no one distances antoher rider, when the time gaps are minimal? I don't get it really. Especially as that would be incredibly boring; might as well go and watch a cat 3.

frenchfighter

Oh and Millar said:

I would 100 percent give Alberto the benefit of the doubt

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5840/ ... z11PJuFx4w

nickwill

'Strict Liability' is fundamental to the future of sport. According to this, any prohibited substance found during tests should result in sanction. It is up to the athlete to make sure that he is clean and above suspicion.
Whatever the sob story, I'm afraid the sport is more important than one athlete, however talented he might be.

slojo

But it undermines his case to say that he's ingested clembuterol accidentally, but knows exactly where it came from.
If it really was an accident, he wouldn't have a clue.
It could just as easily been from the milk on his Frosties.

Pross

+1, it's harsh on anyone who makes a genuine mistake but as soon as the authrities take it easy on someone with a plausible explanation everyone would be at it.

timoid.

frenchfighter wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Like you I would love him to be innocent. But everytime I have watched him (and young Schleck for that matter), I'm left cold, thinking that he's basically been doing all the bad sh1t for years and getting away with it.

I don't understand this. It's not just you who say it either. When will you be happy? When there are no attacks. When no one distances antoher rider, when the time gaps are minimal? I don't get it really. Especially as that would be incredibly boring; might as well go and watch a cat 3.

Its not the style, its the associations. Contador with Saiz, Fuentes and the Hog. Schleck with Riis and Fuentes. And that Simoni quote from the 07 Giro, when regarding Schlecks performance. "So much for clean cycling".

dennisn

Timoid. wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

Like you I would love him to be innocent. But everytime I have watched him (and young Schleck for that matter), I'm left cold, thinking that he's basically been doing all the bad sh1t for years and getting away with it.

I don't understand this. It's not just you who say it either. When will you be happy? When there are no attacks. When no one distances antoher rider, when the time gaps are minimal? I don't get it really. Especially as that would be incredibly boring; might as well go and watch a cat 3.

Its not the style, its the associations. Contador with Saiz, Fuentes and the Hog. Schleck with Riis and Fuentes. And that Simoni quote from the 07 Giro, when regarding Schlecks performance. "So much for clean cycling".

I really don't buy the guilt by association thing. AC is around professional cyclist's, and the like, pretty much 24-7-365. You yourself are around people you know, pretty much in the same way. If one of your friends decides it's a good career move to rob a bank, does that mean you're involved? No, doesn't PROVE a thing against you. It's not even about you. It also doesn't mean that he can't still be your friend.

Pokerface

Dennis - to further the analogy - when a vast majority of your mates are robbing banks, and you have an unexplained massive excess of cash - it would seem probable that you are also somehow involved.

If, however, you are always poor and trying to borrow money.... well then, it might be plausible to think you aren't involved in the bank robberies.


Think on it.

Kléber

Dennis, if I didn't just know a bank robber but spent all day hanging out with known hoodlums, and then I started driving a big car and bought a big house with cash, all whilst spending the day playing craps with my associates, what would you say.

It certainly takes a leap of faith to imagine a rider with Saiz never went near doping products, more so when a riders name is referenced on several documents kept by Fuentes.

But all this is in the past, the issue today is whether he ate a bad steak or not.

nickwill

What I fail to understand, is how he can be so certain that the problem comes from a bad steak. It almost seems like clutching at straws.

Pokerface

Maybe he should volunteer to do a lie detector test instead of volunteering to have his samples retested in 3-5 years. Although, it's my understanding that you can beat the lie detector, especially if you don't think what you did was wrong.

But talk is cheap - and how many riders when caught doping have maintained their innocence vehemently and come up with all manner of reasons how it could have happened?

Even someone like Valverde, in the face of irrefutable DNA evidence, refuses to admit guilt. It is this culture of denial that makes every subsequent case harder to swallow than the last.

RichN95.

Pokerface wrote:

Maybe he should volunteer to do a lie detector test instead of volunteering to have his samples retested in 3-5 years. Although, it's my understanding that you can beat the lie detector, especially if you don't think what you did was wrong.

Lie detectors are hopeless. You've got as much chance of finding out The Truth by flipping a coin as using one of them. You can use it to intimidate someone into confessing, but the actual results are rubbish.

TomBombadil

Re the beef:

How many steaks do I have to buy to ensure I get one with some clenbuterol in?

How many steaks do I have to eat to get a good 'charge'?

Which is the best cut that will have the most clenbuterol in (apart from the liver, not so fond of it ....)

Do I need to eat it rare to ensure that the clenbuterol isn't damaged by cooking?

Should I eat it the night before or a few days before a big event?

Should I just be eating it reguarly?

Should I have it with a glass of milk (clen-milk (c) ) for an additional 'charge'?

Jamie Oliver suggests I should buy local, is this a mistake or should I be looking for Euro beef?

I'm new to this food doping so any advice would be most helpful!

Thanks in advance - Tom