Contador tests positive for Clenbuterol
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Mr Budden is wrong in his assertion that autologous blood doping can be detected in tests. It can't. There are indicators but as of today no definite proof available in any test.0
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Diogenes wrote:Kléber wrote:
Au contraire.Diogenes wrote:I do wish that the authorities would exhibit the same honesty, integrity and professionalism in their approach to thorough investigation before releasing a name for the culprit to hanged by the press. The latter of course being very uneasy bedfellows with the truth, honesty and integrity.
The authorities knew the sample, A and B, was positive for a long time but they sat on it for a considerable period of time. Normally A+B = newsflash but this was kept on the QT and very hush hush for a while.
So I understand, it is the requirement of thorough investigation I am interested in, there appears to be confusion within the authorities as to how this could have come about and until such confusion is cleared up they should have kept their thoughts to themselves. Unless of course they are absolutely sure that he cheated in which case they should have taken action immediately and thrown him off the race. They can’t have it both ways, either they are sure in which case they should have acted immediately or they are not in which case they should not publish
D
That's the point so many people are missing. No-one has to prove he was deliberately cheating, they just need conclusive proof that something was in his system that shouldn't have been there. It's then up to Bertie to contest the ban and put up evidence to support this.0 -
And he looks shifty :P0
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frenchfighter wrote:At last I find some calculations (see end for complexity). Place as much trust in them as you want.
http://martinbudden.wordpress.com/2010/ ... -bad-meat/
I agree here too:
In my view the UCI’s reticence on the blood doping issue is inexcusable. Both in fairness to Contador and for their own credibility they must release the results of any blood doping tests they have made on Contador.
Contador dis-believers - what have you got in your arsenal?
The article is interesting. Unfortunately it is wrong in it's assertion that a blood test can detect blood doping - and this is where it falls apart. He basically discounts the blood doping possibility due to his incorrect information - and therefore is an incomplete analysis.
(He correctly says that a blood test can detect if someone else's blood has been transfused - as was the case with Vino - but assumes that the same stands true for when you transfuse your own blood.)
There are many articles that give some math on the possibility of the clen coming from ingested meat - and I think it's now universally agreed that he did not take it at the time on it's own for any therapeutic benefit. The other most likely option is it came from a blood transfusion.
Given the two choices (magical mystery meat or a blood transfusion that would provide a REAL performance boost), most rational people would suspect it was option B.0 -
He also makes a case based on how many nanograms contaminated meat would contain then trys to skip over the point that the amount Contador would have gained through ingestion is higher than his own figure. :roll:
I know Martin, he's a good software architect, as an apologist for dopers, he's not so good.0 -
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WADA disappoint all forum tinfoil hat brigade by admitting they've been involved from early on
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/5889/ ... -case.aspxFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
calvjones wrote:
Its interesting isn't it? If Thor was done for this I might be one calling for a 3 month suspension..
but then it isn't Thor is it?
I think it might not be a bad option.
But that's just me. It's like when you're on a jury. You judge the evidence and decide guilty or not guilty. In this case, the clen was in his urine. So guilty. Then it's up to the judge to look at everything else and set a suitable tariff.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
This is the best thing about the whole affair. You are meant to track down the meat under the EU scheme, every cut of beef in Europe is monitored, from Portugal to Poland. It should be possible to work out what happened to the doped cow (and presumably the whole herd?) and find other samples of meat, even frozen ones.Pokerface wrote:Given the two choices (magical mystery meat or a blood transfusion that would provide a REAL performance boost), most rational people would suspect it was option B.
In other words, we don't have to choose between Option A and Option B because there should be a big trail of evidence. If he'd blamed supplements or other untraceable factors then the whole issue would be murkier but thanks to the EU scheme, maybe this can be cleared up pretty quickly.0 -
Some articles suggest that they have purchased meat from the same shop and are currently testing it.
However, they are covering their bases by saying that the lab testing the meat may not have sophisticated enough equipment to detect low levels of the drug in the meat.0 -
Pokerface wrote:
Given the two choices (magical mystery meat or a blood transfusion that would provide a REAL performance boost), most rational people would suspect it was option B.
Agreed, especially because it happened the day after a rest day in the mountains. A day that you'd probably choose to do a transfusion if you were going to do one.Scottish and British...and a bit French0 -
DaveyL wrote:A rider who, since the age of 16, has been on teams linked to Manolo Saiz and Johan Bruyneel. A rider whose intials are in the Operacion Puerto documents. A 62 kg climber who can beat the Olympic pursuit champion over a flat 8 km TT. A rider who put out ~ 7 Watts/kg at Verbier last year. A rider who has won several Grand Tours in an era where almost every other GT winner has tested positive or been implicated in doping. Yet he has beaten all of these riders.
A rider who has now tested positive for clenbuterol.
Do you want more?
Not a bad effort - 3/10. You fall down on the following:
- Guilty by team association is lightweight.
- Puerto, he was clearly exonnerated (I will not go into this more as has been covered too much)
- Anncey TT. Surprising maybe yet again this has been covered. It wasn't hors norme. Also, I was there in person on the climb. It was savage and can tell you the Fabian was struggling (great for fans as was wonderful to see him up close so slow).
- Verbier. Banged over and showed to be fine.
- Several GTs. Its called a Champion. You get them in all sports. He was never super dominant by any means in his GTs - no 'alien' performances, just all round excellence and consistency. Also that consistency is an attribute of a clean rider.
If you can give me something new and concrete rather than your opinion based on the fact you don't like a rider then maybe you might have some ground.Contador is the Greatest0 -
But that's only a guess. You're really saying "I don't think he's clean, I'll construct a story to hang on this". You might well be right but it's just finger-pointing, no?0
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frenchfighter wrote:DaveyL wrote:A rider who, since the age of 16, has been on teams linked to Manolo Saiz and Johan Bruyneel. A rider whose intials are in the Operacion Puerto documents. A 62 kg climber who can beat the Olympic pursuit champion over a flat 8 km TT. A rider who put out ~ 7 Watts/kg at Verbier last year. A rider who has won several Grand Tours in an era where almost every other GT winner has tested positive or been implicated in doping. Yet he has beaten all of these riders.
A rider who has now tested positive for clenbuterol.
Do you want more?
Not a bad effort - 3/10. You fall down on the following:
- Guilty by team association is lightweight.
- Puerto, was clearly exonnerate (I will not go into this more as has been covered too much)
- Anncey TT. Surprising maybe yet again this has been covered. It wasn't hors norme. Also, I was there in person on the climb. It was savage and can tell you the Fabian was struggling (great for fans as was wonderful to see him up close so slow).
- Verbier. Banged over and showed to be fine.
- Several GTs. Its called a Champion. You get them in all sports. He was never super dominant by any means in his GTs - no 'alien' performances, just all round excellence and consistency. Also that consistency is an attribute of a clean rider.
If you can give me something new and concrete rather than your opinion based on the fact you don't like a rider then maybe you might have some ground.
I don't care whether you choose to believe it or not.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
iainf72 wrote:You forgot "A rider who responded to all questios about doping with 'next question'"
That's what came to my mind straight after hearing the news. The don't deny / don't admit tactic sends out the wrong signals. The PR man has become a bit too involved.Mens agitat molem0 -
frenchfighter wrote:
If you can give me something new and concrete rather than your opinion based on the fact you don't like a rider then maybe you might have some ground.
Cor, I hope you never need to work on a financial risk model!Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Kléber wrote:
This is the best thing about the whole affair. You are meant to track down the meat under the EU scheme, every cut of beef in Europe is monitored, from Portugal to Poland. It should be possible to work out what happened to the doped cow (and presumably the whole herd?) and find other samples of meat, even frozen ones.Pokerface wrote:Given the two choices (magical mystery meat or a blood transfusion that would provide a REAL performance boost), most rational people would suspect it was option B.
In other words, we don't have to choose between Option A and Option B because there should be a big trail of evidence. If he'd blamed supplements or other untraceable factors then the whole issue would be murkier but thanks to the EU scheme, maybe this can be cleared up pretty quickly.
Contador should probably go to the Spanish authorities help with the tracking.
But Patricio Majuade of the Spanish Ministry For Agriculture and Food says their cows are not just the leanest and fastest growing in the world, but are also tested more often than any cows ever. "Spanish cows have never failed a blood test" he said. When asked about a failed test a decade ago he replied that the cow in question had a TUE for a bad case of udder rash.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
iainf72 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:
If you can give me something new and concrete rather than your opinion based on the fact you don't like a rider then maybe you might have some ground.
Cor, I hope you never need to work on a financial risk model!
Haha, you might be surprised to know what I do for a living.Contador is the Greatest0 -
frenchfighter wrote:- Puerto, he was clearly exonnerated (I will not go into this more as has been covered too much)
I'd like the details please, I didn't follow. I've heard he refused to allow a DNA test, is that true? Was he exonerated by the same people that failed to turn up the name of a single non-cyclist, despite the rumours of Barca and Real players being linked, not to mention tennis players?
Sorry if this is all old for everyone else.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
frenchfighter wrote:iainf72 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:
If you can give me something new and concrete rather than your opinion based on the fact you don't like a rider then maybe you might have some ground.
Cor, I hope you never need to work on a financial risk model!
Haha, you might be surprised to know what I do for a living.
Why do you think I said it.
If you were working on a risk model, would all of the excuses satisfy you? Seriously. I know you're a fan and everything, but the body of evidence should introduce a lot of doubt to anyone with a bit of common sense.
Have you ever seen David Lynch's "Lost Highway"?
Fred Madison: I like to remember things my own way.
Ed: What do you mean by that?
Fred Madison: How I remembered them. Not necessarily the way they happened.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Contador is the Greatest0
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Gazzaputt wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Sounds like an innocent man. One prepared to sacrifice an incredible amount for what he believes is right..”
Sounds more like a desperate man to me trying anything he can to keep his head above water.
+ 1 Gazz.0 -
Says he may jack it all in. Riders quotes from Chavanel and Offredo if true are very tell tale.....
http://road.cc/content/news/25099-conta ... r-his-nameColnago C60 SRAM eTap, Colnago C40, Milani 107E, BMC Pro Machine, Trek Madone, Viner Gladius,
Bizango 29er0 -
Interesting that he wants his samples frozen for re-test in 5 years time when he feels the authorities will be able to test more stringently.
(source http://road.cc )0 -
It's when you see names like Chavanel saying they are not surprised that you think Bertie is fishy. Granted Chavanel is on QS but he is a rider who shines on certain days like when he fought back to get the MJ. He has no axe to grind with Contador. But if he isn't surprised are the Schlecks? Has Bruyneel said anything yet?M.Rushton0
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No tA Doctor wrote:I'd like the details please, I didn't follow. I've heard he refused to allow a DNA test, is that true? Was he exonerated by the same people that failed to turn up the name of a single non-cyclist, despite the rumours of Barca and Real players being linked, not to mention tennis players?
+1 please - sorry I don't know what the Puerto position is - like the above poster, all I have read is that he refused to do a DNA test, but there were notes with his initials on.
I want to believe that Contador is "innocent", but like Lance and the fact that there are incidents in his past, there appear to be incidents in Contador's past too. if someone could explain them away - I'd like that. Otherwise Wiggins could end up second in last year's TdF if you discount those riders with rumours against them (is Schleck A totally clean? Wasn't Schleck F also implicated in Puerto or with Fuentes?)http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
mroli wrote:
I want to believe that Contador is "innocent", but like Lance and the fact that there are incidents in his past, there appear to be incidents in Contador's past too. if someone could explain them away - I'd like that. Otherwise Wiggins could end up second in last year's TdF if you discount those riders with rumours against them (is Schleck A totally
clean? Wasn't Schleck F also implicated in Puerto or with Fuentes?)
Bella Jorg said regarding the initial AC that it was a reasonable assumptions that it was Contador. And keep in mind it said AC was on the same program as JJ. I know everyone likes to get excited about blood bags but I don't think there were any bags attributed to AC, only mention on a couple of pages.
Frank Schleck had hired Fuentes for "training plans". Frankly, anyone who doesn't think CSC were knee deep in it is a raving moron.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
