Incoming - tube strike
Comments
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electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
No problem:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ked-men.do
Opening the doors on the wrong side - even a monkey has a 50/50 chance of getting it right - competent or incompetent - you decide.
ETA - on a cycle theme - running red lights
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... n-month.do0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
And
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23805874-tube-drivers-pass-54-red-lights-in-month.do0 -
W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
No problem:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ked-men.do
Opening the doors on the wrong side - even a monkey has a 50/50 chance of getting it right - competent or incompetent - you decide.
ETA - on a cycle theme - running red lights
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... n-month.do
OK - so the evening Standard says that the strike is about two sacked workers - and therefore it is eh?
It isn't.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
And
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23807806-tube-passengers-stuck-in-tunnel-for-hours-and-staff-didnt-know.do0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
And
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23866764-runaway-tube-train-travels-three-miles-on-london-underground.do0 -
JZed wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
And
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23805874-tube-drivers-pass-54-red-lights-in-month.do
I noticed the word subcontractor in there quite a bit - yes some can be on the incompetent side. But they are not on strike. I think most tubeworkers would prefer to have more control over who they are forced to work with - as some of them are positively danegrous.
SPADs are not due to incompetence in most cases - lights fail - best will int he world - especially if you're working with a seriously delapidated signalling system that should have been replaced 40 years ago.
Some SPADs are caused by badly placed lights, or obstacles in the way - there's a long waiting list for this sort of work - and always has been - due to short staffing and money issues.
Many are intentional under controlled conditions for various reasons.
Also like to point out that with thousands of train movements a month - do you realise how tiny a number 54 is even if we did accept this figure on face value. And in all cases - the fail safe system kicks in - it slows the train down, but there's no danger of a crash due to a SPAD - thanks to the extrememly comptent and skilled signals staff who set the systems up.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
JZed wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
And
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23807806-tube-passengers-stuck-in-tunnel-for-hours-and-staff-didnt-know.do
Glitches in system long overdue for renewal - held back for financial reasons - and glitches appearing partly due to subcontractors tight deadlines and not enough control over these works within LU to check through plans - all comes down to money in the end.
Train radios not working properly? - oh yeah - money - project to sort htis issue out keeps getting pushed back.
So more cuts won't exactly help.
LU hires its engineers from the general job market - people who seem perfectly comeptent when working for, eg, British Aerospace, BT, O2, etc. So do you think LU put them through some sort of mind wash device before emplying them? Or maybe the world's oldest underground has a series of particular problems made worse by underfunding?Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
No problem:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ked-men.do
Opening the doors on the wrong side - even a monkey has a 50/50 chance of getting it right - competent or incompetent - you decide.
ETA - on a cycle theme - running red lights
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... n-month.do
OK - so the evening Standard says that the strike is about two sacked workers - and therefore it is eh?
It isn't.
Oh, I know this one isn't - I was just adding an off the cuff comment that tube workers aren't unknown for striking even when their own incompetence meant one of them got sacked. You wanted some justification, I gave you some - we can take this off topic further if you want, but I think the point has been made, don't you?0 -
W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
No problem:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... ked-men.do
Opening the doors on the wrong side - even a monkey has a 50/50 chance of getting it right - competent or incompetent - you decide.
ETA - on a cycle theme - running red lights
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... n-month.do
OK - so the evening Standard says that the strike is about two sacked workers - and therefore it is eh?
It isn't.
Oh, I know this one isn't - I was just adding an off the cuff comment that tube workers aren't unknown for striking even when their own incompetence meant one of them got sacked. You wanted some justification, I gave you some - we can take this off topic further if you want, but I think the point has been made, don't you?
I don;t know what point you were trying to make, but you were wrong. I'll accept thatHello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
JZed wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:[so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence.
OK - back that up!!
And
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23866764-runaway-tube-train-travels-three-miles-on-london-underground.do
Contractors didn't follow procedure - that's an easy one.
8) Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:
I don;t know what point you were trying to make, but you were wrong. I'll accept that
What an interesting contradiction. If you don't know what point I was trying to make, how do you know I was wrong?
Anyhow, enough of this side-track. Let's look forward to the chaos tomorrow.0 -
W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:
I don;t know what point you were trying to make, but you were wrong. I'll accept that
What an interesting contradiction. If you don't know what point I was trying to make, how do you know I was wrong?
Anyhow, enough of this side-track. Let's look forward to the chaos tomorrow.
Pedant!
That this strike is "so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence" - wrong
Your point? - still escapes me - do you know?Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:
I don;t know what point you were trying to make, but you were wrong. I'll accept that
What an interesting contradiction. If you don't know what point I was trying to make, how do you know I was wrong?
Anyhow, enough of this side-track. Let's look forward to the chaos tomorrow.
Pedant!
That this strike is "so they can protect their jobs/income/incompetence" - wrong
Your point? - still escapes me - do you know?
It doesn't really matter what this strike is supposed to be about - at the end of the day it will be for one of those reasons (even if it's not admitted).0 -
Well no-one can argue with your position if you choose to maintain such a fantasy as fact. The ES will always support such ludicrous claims when it can be used to smear the unions. Here is the Unions position in a press release today:
"Tube staff to strike again to defend safety and jobs
Publication Date: November 1 2010
Suspend cuts and we will halt strikes, say RMT and TSSA
STRIKE ACTION by more than 11,000 members of RMT and TSSA, the two biggest unions on London Underground, will go ahead tomorrow evening after Tube bosses again failed to suspend their “dangerous and unnecessary” plan to axe 800 safety critical station staff.
Engineering staff will start their third 24-hour strike at 19.00 tomorrow (November 2), while operational staff will not book on for shifts scheduled to start from 21.00. A fourth 24-hour stoppage is scheduled for November 28 and 29.
Both unions today urged London Underground to suspend cuts cuts that are also opposed by the London Assembly and have raised “severe concerns” from London TravelWatch.
The unions also released photographs (attached – see note below) of damage found on a District Line train while in service last week, underlining their case that maintenance cuts are already having a devastating effect on the fabric of the Tube network.
RMT general secretary Bob Crow said today:
“All we have been asking is that the London Mayor stick to the pledge he made during his election campaign, when he too recognised that people wanted to see stations staffed properly. The message is simple: suspend these cuts and we will suspend our action.
“Only last week Tube workers were commended by the inquest into the July 7 bombings for their selfless actions in rescuing victims, yet among them are the very grades that the mayor is now intent on cutting.
“Far from keeping his word, the Mayor now has more than 2,000 Tube jobs in his sights. He now has a choice. He can either be rembered for devastating Tube safety and the fabric of the network or he can work with us to defend it.”
TSSA general Secretary Gerry Doherty said:
"Boris has broken his word to Londoners on delivering a world class Tube in time for the Olympics in 20 months time.
"He has also broken his word on keeping full staffed ticket offices open. Insterad of trying to impress the Tory shires with his anti trade union rhetoric, he should be sitting down with us to work out a fair solution to this dispute which no one wants.”
ends – notes follow
Notes to editors: Photographs attached show damage found on a District Line train in service last Tuesday (November 26). Photo 1 shows shows a brake hanger with a retaining pin half hanging out, and pic 2 shows another brake hanger on the same train where the retain pin has fallen out and the brake actuating arm has fallen off causing damage to the gear pan – potentially causing a derailment had it fallen under the wheel.
Early-Day Motion 920 (text below) tabled by John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) and Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North), calls on the mayor to drop proposals that have already been denounced by the Greater London Assembly (text also below) and have raised “severe concerns” from London TravelWatch
Early Day Motion 920, tabled in the House of Commons by John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn
That this House condemns the Mayor of London's proposals to cut 2,000 jobs on London Underground as a serious mistake which will damage passenger services and undermine safety; notes that he has broken a 2008 campaign pledge to defend local ticket offices and that his proposals have been denounced by a cross-party vote in the London Assembly; commends members of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers and the Transport Salaried Staffs Association, pensioner groups and transport campaigners in seeking to defend the Tube as a vital public service; acknowledges London Travel Watch's severe concerns that the cuts will be keenly felt among the elderly and disabled who rely on help to buy tickets; worries that the job losses will lead to increased maintenance problems, more delays for passengers and increased risks as rigorous safety standards are reduced; believes these cuts would leave passengers feeling less secure and staff less able to cope in emergencies; and calls on the Mayor, as Chair of Transport for London, to withdraw the proposals and to agree with the unions' reasonable and safe staffing levels right across the London Underground network to ensure that passengers continue to receive excellent service.
The Greater London Assembly motion, passed on October 20 with cross-party support of Labour, Lib-Dems and Greens:
“The London Assembly is opposed to Transport for London’s proposals to shed up to 800 ticket office and gateline jobs on London Underground. The number of stations which will be staffed by only one person working alone for some time will increase. Ticket machines alone are no replacement for the presence of trained Underground staff and the over reliance on ticket machines will disproportionately impact on those passengers who have a disability. This Assembly believes that passengers will feel less safe on poorly staffed stations particularly at early mornings and in late evenings. This Assembly urges Transport for London and its Chair, Mayor Boris Johnson, to review this decision and re-affirm reasonable and safe staffing levels right across the London Underground network to ensure passengers continue to receive excellent service from London Underground.”
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Funny that the moderate TSSA is also striking and getting zero press coverage - it's harder to smear the always moderate TSSA who generally represent the white collar work-force - so no nasty working class accent to take the pi55 out of.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:A completely unbiased press release from the Unions
Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
As someone said earlier in the thread, it's as though sacking a tube worker who's sitting around on facebook all day is akin to murdering passengers (and their children).
Did you support the strike which was undertaken when (a) one thief and (b) one idiot got the sack? Or was that for "safety" too?0 -
W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:A completely unbiased press release from the Unions
Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
As someone said earlier in the thread, it's as though sacking a tube worker who's sitting around on facebook all day is akin to murdering passengers (and their children).
Did you support the strike which was undertaken when (a) one thief and (b) one idiot got the sack? Or was that for "safety" too?
I didn't mention bias either way in relation to the press release - it's not relevent. That is what the strike is about. You strike and state why you're striking - that's how it's done - and there it is in black and white. The ES is bull-shitting for its own political reasons, and you know it.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
W1 wrote:Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
Oyster's being withdrawn - it's too expensive. Just thought you might like to know.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
W1 wrote:As someone said earlier in the thread, it's as though sacking a tube worker who's sitting around on facebook all day is akin to murdering passengers (and their children)
Facebook is barred in all tube offices, and most tube workers don't even have internet access.
so much for that little smear.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:A completely unbiased press release from the Unions
Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
As someone said earlier in the thread, it's as though sacking a tube worker who's sitting around on facebook all day is akin to murdering passengers (and their children).
Did you support the strike which was undertaken when (a) one thief and (b) one idiot got the sack? Or was that for "safety" too?
I didn't mention bias either way in relation to the press release - it's not relevent. That is what the strike is about. You strike and state why you're striking - that's how it's done - and there it is in black and white. The ES is bull-******** for its own political reasons, and you know it.
Erm, a press release from one side is pretty biased, isn't it! It hardly "proves" your point, it just says what the Unions want people to hear (fact or not).
The alternative to your ideal world is that you strike on the pre-text of safety, whilst actually trying to ensure that your members (who pay your wages) don't lose their jobs, however redundant they might be? Or are you really that naiive?
The ES came up on google - I could have picked a number of similar links.
So did you support the strike about the theif and the idiot?0 -
W1 wrote:Did you support the strike which was undertaken when (a) one thief and (b) one idiot got the sack? Or was that for "safety" too?
You'll have to remind me - I have better things to think about - when was this strike?
Though I seriously doubt it - did this strike actually happen apart from in your head.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:As someone said earlier in the thread, it's as though sacking a tube worker who's sitting around on facebook all day is akin to murdering passengers (and their children)
Facebook is barred in all tube offices, and most tube workers don't even have internet access.
so much for that little smear.
Poor cherubs. What can they be doing all day instead? Actually, don't answer that.0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
Oyster's being withdrawn - it's too expensive. Just thought you might like to know.
Got a source for that? Google hasn't heard of it.0 -
Well - if you can't accept the unions statement about what the strike is about - excuse the clumsy wording there I'm tired - then we cannot discuss further. It's the ES's fantasies vs. what you call a bias press release.W1 wrote:Erm, a press release from one side is pretty biased, isn't it! It hardly "proves" your point, it just says what the Unions want people to hear (fact or not).
I've not said anything about my ideal world here. I'm only trying to establish that what you say the strike is about is not so.W1 wrote:The alternative to your ideal world is that you strike on the pre-text of safety, whilst actually trying to ensure that your members (who pay your wages) don't lose their jobs, however redundant they might be? Or are you really that naiive?
My position? - if you can demonstrate that these cuts can be made without compromising safety then I'd be all for it. I believe that LU and TFL are going through this process right now - so we shall see.W1 wrote:The ES came up on google - I could have picked a number of similar links."
Go on then - it may amuse me. Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
Oyster's being withdrawn - it's too expensive. Just thought you might like to know.
Got a source for that? Google hasn't heard of it.
Can you imagine the cost of removing it
They've only just fitted it to my local train station thingie. 0 -
electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:Did you support the strike which was undertaken when (a) one thief and (b) one idiot got the sack? Or was that for "safety" too?
You'll have to remind me - I have better things to think about - when was this strike?
Though I seriously doubt it - did this strike actually happen apart from in your head.
It was in the first link I posted, although from what I can gather you won't believe it as it's in the Evening Standard and it wasn't told to you by your union so it can't possibly be true....
Anyway, have a nice day off tomorrow, don't worry about all the people you inconvenience in another attempt to blackmail the capital.0 -
nich wrote:W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:Ah yes, the old safety chestnut. Not about jobs at all then. An easy way to avoid any redundancies on the tube, even with the introduction of new technology (such as Oyster).
Oyster's being withdrawn - it's too expensive. Just thought you might like to know.
Got a source for that? Google hasn't heard of it.
Can you imagine the cost of removing it They've only just fitted it to my local train station thingie.
I don't think it's imminent - apparently the Mayors going to commerical institutions such as Barclays, HSBC etc to try to develop a private alternative. I should think most of the infrastructure will probably stay in place.Hello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:W1 wrote:Did you support the strike which was undertaken when (a) one thief and (b) one idiot got the sack? Or was that for "safety" too?
You'll have to remind me - I have better things to think about - when was this strike?
Though I seriously doubt it - did this strike actually happen apart from in your head.
It was in the first link I posted, although from what I can gather you won't believe it as it's in the Evening Standard and it wasn't told to you by your union so it can't possibly be true....
Anyway, have a nice day off tomorrow, don't worry about all the people you inconvenience in another attempt to blackmail the capital.
you don't know if i'm in a union - i haven't told you i am.
i'm not striking
blimey - the assumptions people make.
you need to calm down!
I don;t rely on anyone to tell me what to think - unlike most ES readers. But you keep banging on about the "biased" press release which I used to balance your bias press article.
and that article as far as i could tell did not state when the sackings occured or any strike becasue of it. If I'm wrong feel free to point out where i'm wrong. As I said before - I'm tired - been working hard to dayHello! I've been here over a month now.0 -
electric_blue wrote:you don't know if i'm in a union - i haven't told you i am.
Are you or aren't you?0 -
edit“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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W1 wrote:electric_blue wrote:you don't know if i'm in a union - i haven't told you i am.
Are you or aren't you?
I'm not going to say. I believe we should be able to have a reasonable discussion about the issues without personalising it.
Can you?Hello! I've been here over a month now.0
