Weapons...Do you carry anything?

pte1643

I can't believe people are discussing this on a public forum. :?

Bikerbaboon

pte1643 wrote:

I can't believe people are discussing this on a public forum. :?

could be worse

http://www.cyclingforums.com/cycling-eq ... pment.html :shock:

Dubzy

"This punk, is a 357 Magnum, the world's most powerful handgun - capable of blowing a man's head clean off his shoulders. Now punk, tell me, do you feel lucky?"

If it worked fot Clint Eastwood .............

Seriously though - the carrying of any kind of weapon is likely to back fire on you, particularly if you are overpowered - if thugs finds a knife or similar, then they are likely to slash more than just your tyres. Always walk or pedal away from trouble.

knj23

Bikerbaboon wrote:

pte1643 wrote:

I can't believe people are discussing this on a public forum. :?

could be worse

http://www.cyclingforums.com/cycling-eq ... pment.html :shock:

Gotta love the americans

mudsucker

You could try a bit of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGco9JAaLjU

tiny_pens

If you search the instructables website, there is a bloke who mounted a home made taser into the frame of his bike activated by phoning a pager. I think its configured to give a shock to the handlebars but you could always connect it to the saddle and hand over the bike in the event of a confrontation.

Ring Ring

Bzzzt

:twisted:

thedirge

If they annoy you, get home, phone a few friends and go beat the pi55 out of them.

They won't shout abuse if their jaw's are wired.

P-Jay

Christ, I love where I live, the most I ever get on my Local ride is the local scout group shouting "nice bike!" and they mean it.

Personally I'd ignore them or go another way, they're only acting up and probably completely normal lads when they're not trying to prove themselves in front of their mates..

But if it ever does come down to a mugging and it's them or your bike, power away, they'll never chat you on foot.

Failing that, the old ways still work the best. Spot the ringleader, there's always one and it'll probably be obvious which one it is. If you can, without the merest hint of hesitation or "hold me back I'll swing at him" procrastination smash him square in the nose. Luckily a fit /strong MTB'er has got a massive head start on any young lad who spends his evenings drinking alcopops and smoking weed.

thel33ter

This will scare them off

cavegiant

Ok peeps I cannot stress this enough, do not start fighting chavs, get your bike inusred and understand that if you do get mugged you are going to get a brand new bike, this years model and the chance to change all those things that bug you about your current ride.

If you pull a weapon you are likely to get hurt badly, or potentially worse, hurt someone else badly. Think about it really, do you actually want to hurt someone bad, you may think you want to, but really think the situation through.

For the military trained guy above, be VERY careful.

One of my dads friends was a retired officer from the SAS. He was walking along the beach with his wife and a gang of thugs had a go. Needless to say, SAS, the thugs lost badly.
He got prosecuted and spent many years in jail for using his military training without warning the other people. So a retired guy walking on a beech with his wife get attacked. His wife had to spend years alone while he was in jail, was it worth it?
He didn't even kill any of them (though not far off from my understanding)!

The law is biased, and it is not in your favour.
Oh forgot to add the thugs were armed, with hindsight, bet he would gave given up his wallet and a bit of dignity.

On a sidepoint, most chavs are unfit, weak with no idea how to fight. There will always be the occasional one who does mma or boxing seriously as a hobby. My 3rd Dan Judo instructor learnt the hard way not to underestimate your opponent. I may have been wearing a white belt, doesn't mean I can't feint a fall and transition to a triange choke. youtube if you don't know the move, used my cyclists legs to shut off the blood supply to his brain, WIN!

Uchiga

As a cyclist you should have a reasonable amount of fitness to cycle away quickly enough. Fighting is always a last option. You give them what they want first,run away and hide second and lastly fight. Although goign by the seven p's

Prior Planning and Preparation prevents Piss Poor Performance.

thedirge

thel33ter wrote:

This will scare them off

Fixed single speed! that would scare ME off!

slimboyjim

Right, first off I'm going to say carrying a weapon is stupid and runs the risk of you getting into serious trouble with the law. I'd second the calls of others on here to take a different route home if you're feeling intimidated - better safe than sorry.

Right, here's the legalities:

Knives
- you cannot carry a lock-knife (classes as an offensive weapon)
- you cannot have a knife with a blade over 2.5" (this is the reasonable limit for knife size determined via UK law).
- you need to have a reasonable/lawful excuse to carry the knife. Carrying it for defence does not fall into the category.
In essence having a small trailside tool like a penknife is OK providing you have it for non-defence reasons.

Batons, etc.
- These are classed as offensive weapons. If something is designed to hurt or incapacitate someone it's safe to assume it's illegal.

Anything that can attack someone from a distance (eg. 'Mace')
- these are classed as firearms with very serious penalties. As mentioned 'Deep heat' doesn't fall in this category as it's not designed to attack someone...

Reasonable force (self defence):
- you have a right by law to defend yourself and you may do so using reasonable force. Pulling a weapon out is a massive esculation of force and can only be justified in the most serious of circumstances which you have to justify to the court. If someone who is comparitively much bigger than you, or against multiple assailants you *may* be able to justify it but really it's better to avoid the situation fullstop (just think of the additional distance as training!). Equally if you can only do what is necessary to defend yourself - if they back up or fall over you cannot follow up without good reason. Again you may have to justify why chasing someone down the road and assaulting them or kicking someone on the floor is defensive as opposed to aggressive at court... You are unlikely to be able to do this I warn you now.

Finally, it's something pathetic like 1.5" a knife has to penetrate the chest cavity to kill, so even small legal knives can end up with you facing a murder/manslaughter charge. If someone died because you stabbed or bludgeoned them you would both have massive consequences to face and have a massive amount of guilt on your shoulders, however much of a thieving scumbag they were.

Me, I make sure my bike is insured away from home on my home insurance policy and have details of the serial numbers, etc stored at home.

Radioactiveman

-Liam- wrote:

Is pepper spray acceptable as a form of self defence?...within the eyes of the law i mean ?

I really wouldn't recommend spraying pepper spray into the eyes of the law you may well get arrested

shx8000

The Asp idea is one that I thought about myself. However, in the UK carrying a weapon like that is going to get you in as much trouble as carrying a knife.
If these Chavs get serious and you really are worried, and don't really stand much of a chance, then hand over the bike and get as good a description of them as possible to give the police. Too many idiots carrying knives and guns, so don't go adding to the problem.

Or you could just turn round and head back in the direction you came from, which'd probably be what i'd do.

Buckled_Rims

Well the answer is easy....

Carry a knife. If mugged, use it. When you get caught by the police pretend you're a chav.

In court, wear burberry, track suit, Beghaus jacket, drug user look etc.... Pretend you're thick. Result - Light sentence.

BUT...

Dress smartly and look educated....Result - 2 years hard labour.

It pays to be a CHAV. Don't believe me, go to a crown court and watch

Judges, solicitors and barristers love Chavs because they are return customers, that's why they get ASBO's instead of jail.

Judges, solicitors and barristers hate law abiding citizens because they'd soon be without a job if everyone was one.

bails87

Buckled_Rims

Gazlar

many years ago, I got "told off" by the police because I had a cricket bat in my car when I got pulled over on some pretend claim that a red car had been involved in a burglary nearby, probably more the fact, I was yound, I had a sporty car, and it was 11pm.

They asked if I had a cricket ball, when I said no, they claimed it bought into question my motivation for carrying it ie it could be used as a weapon. The fact I also had cricket whites and had had a match (and therefore didnt need to provide my own ball) that afternoon meant nothing to them. What was strange however, is that I had about a grands worth of knoves in the car also, that I used for my job as a chef. Nothing was mentioned about their use as a weapon.

Anyway to the original point, I'm quite a big bloke, and I can handle myself, but I go to reasonable lengths to avoid putting myself into confrontational situations. To be honest, I couldnt be bothered to deal with being battered or killed or then have to deal with the consequences of having battered or killed someone in self defence

broken weeble

If you dont mind the weight i find a large MagLight is a handy thing to have in your rucksack.


I am told that the weight makes a mess of unsavoury types jaws.

bails87

What's the point of carrying something in your rucksack?

As pointed out already, if someone wants your bike they're going to take it, not sit around waiting for you to get tooled up!

fastercyclist

I would just go straight at them at the first insult. They always scatter and run. Not sure why, works on groups up to 20.

I guess they figure if you're heading for them you're bigger and badder then they are. Remember most chavs aren't out for a fight, they're like dogs trying to sniff your ass. Kick them in the face.

kenan

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... delID=4598

for road side repairs :roll:

Mynameisdann

cavegiant wrote:

Ok peeps I cannot stress this enough, do not start fighting chavs, get your bike inusred and understand that if you do get mugged you are going to get a brand new bike, this years model and the chance to change all those things that bug you about your current ride.

If you pull a weapon you are likely to get hurt badly, or potentially worse, hurt someone else badly. Think about it really, do you actually want to hurt someone bad, you may think you want to, but really think the situation through.

For the military trained guy above, be VERY careful.

One of my dads friends was a retired officer from the SAS. He was walking along the beach with his wife and a gang of thugs had a go. Needless to say, SAS, the thugs lost badly.
He got prosecuted and spent many years in jail for using his military training without warning the other people. So a retired guy walking on a beech with his wife get attacked. His wife had to spend years alone while he was in jail, was it worth it?
He didn't even kill any of them (though not far off from my understanding)!

The law is biased, and it is not in your favour.
Oh forgot to add the thugs were armed, with hindsight, bet he would gave given up his wallet and a bit of dignity.

On a sidepoint, most chavs are unfit, weak with no idea how to fight. There will always be the occasional one who does mma or boxing seriously as a hobby. My 3rd Dan Judo instructor learnt the hard way not to underestimate your opponent. I may have been wearing a white belt, doesn't mean I can't feint a fall and transition to a triange choke. youtube if you don't know the move, used my cyclists legs to shut off the blood supply to his brain, WIN!

are you sure you wasnt watching Con air

Thewaylander

Why not do what i did ten years ago.

Go train hard at martial arts for 7-8 years, then not worry?

tsenior

i always say 'alright lads' to the younger ones (<16), usually they're surprised an adult will give them the benefit of the doubt, if its the same ones hanging around your regualr route they get to recognise you after a while, 9/10 any verbal is posturing cos they're bored.

pro muggers are few and far between outside big urban areas: i wouldent take an expensive bike round some palces any more than i would a nice car, wad of cash, expensive mobile etc.

older (>16) drunks/crackheads etc are more unpredicatble and therefore more dangerous but usually easy to outmanouver, on most trails your past them before they've got time to register your presence. I sympithise with the OP on the specific situation as canals are straight so they have time to see you coming, engage brain and work up to confronting you and there is (usually) only 2 ways to go: past/through them or an ego denting U-turn.

If in doubt take the latter.

going tooled up is just stupid unless your prepared to use it and therefore prepared to kill someone chances are it will be used against you.

stu8975

If someone wants your bike that much a 'weapon' won't really stop them..being a 'big lad' means sod all, you get hit in the right place then you are hitting the floor whether you like it or not.

Once you are on the floor/disbiked and your bike is being pedalled away, what exactly are you going to do with your 'weapon'?

You could always do the funky chicken run after them in your cleated shoes..you won't get far. Riding a route that puts you at a higher risk of having your bike nicked is your decision. There is a very 'common sense' answer to this.

.blitz

All these posts about 'backing off' and 'not getting involved' really grip my sh*t. This sort of attitude is what's wrong with society. I have had a go on more than one occasion and one time I was proud to receive a letter of commendation from Warwickshire's Chief Constable.

Anyone who tries to frighten or intimidate innocent citizens is an animal and deserves to be treated as such. If it means taking a gun to a knife fight, so be it.

butcher of bakersfield

Radioactiveman wrote:

-Liam- wrote:

Is pepper spray acceptable as a form of self defence?...within the eyes of the law i mean ?

I really wouldn't recommend spraying pepper spray into the eyes of the law you may well get arrested

Highly illegal. Merely carrying it is the same as carrying a knife in the eyes of the law, I believe.

Unfortunately it's more commonly used for assault in this country than it is self defence. A charver's dream (yes, it's 'charver' up north). Being able to kick your head in while you don't fight back. Makes them feel twice as hard.

It's great imagining all the scenarios in your head: doing a front flip off your bike whilst simultaneously removing their head with the sword neatly tucked into your camel pack, all before your feet even touch the ground. And, oh, the look on their mates faces, when they realize you're actually a hardened ninja, reared by ancient assasins during a secret Japanese war.

But let's face it. You're not. Take another route and enjoy the ride.

Pufftmw

My old Akido instructor got attacked by 3 or 4 youfs - he defended himself and some of them needed hospital treatment ( )

A few weeks later, they saw him again as he cycled along and pushed him off his bike - he broke his leg...



Keep your eyes open, your senses alert and use your brain. Walk or run away from trouble, its really not worth a beating or worse because some dick-head wants something you have...

bails87

Thewaylander wrote:

Why not do what i did ten years ago.

Go train hard at martial arts for 7-8 years, then not worry?

Because being stabbed is bad no matter what colour belt you're wearing?

.blitz: I see your point, but honestly, I (personally) don't think it's worth it. If I'm confronted by a couple of people with knives and I've got no way of escape, I'm going to chuck the bike at them and leave them to it. Not jump off the bike and ask the punks if they're feeling lucky. My bike can be replaced. I can't

Delivering a swift bick in the kollocks (or something like that) and then riding like the wind is something I'd do though, if I thought I'd get away with it.

Now if I think they're going to fcuk me up regardless, then I'd fight back, but I'm not a 'big' guy (tall, but skinny) So that would be an absolute last resort.

As it happens, the worst I've had was one of a group of kids shouting "Nice helmet" at me. It was only afterwards that I realised "thanks, your mum helped me polish it" was a suitable reply!