2012 Olympic MTB course

njee20

Peaty is fitter than Oli Beckingsale? That's what you're saying?

He's more skilled technically, he's probably stronger (power:weight less so), he's certainly heavier, but fitter is not only hard to quantify, but total rubbish!

Steve is a very gifted rider, but I've heard from several people who've ridden with him that he's not the quickest up the hills and why would he be!?

Thewaylander

yeehaamcgee wrote:

njee20 wrote:

I still think we'd have no chance.

+1

XC is a balance of skill and fitness, some courses test one more than the other. DH obviously requires more skill, but frankly not that much fitness, XC racing is the opposite. Surely that's how it should be?

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this, as no one's going to change their opinion!

I'd contest that DH racing requires "frankly not that much fitness".
I will readily accept that they're not as fit as the XC guys, but at a competitive level, fitness can still make or break a rider's chances.
It's also a different kind of fitness, explosive power over short distance, versus long sustained endurance.
Like the difference, for example, between a 100 metre sprinter, and a triathlete. The triathlete would always destroy the specialist sprinter in a long distance race, but that's not to say the sprinter is not superhumanly fit in his own way.

Totally Yee,

Its like boxing fit, as a Wu Shu fighter i used to train for 3 3minutes full contact knock out rounds, I could ride for miles on a bike but training for that was hard... Totally the same for DH.

But my point is have been to a few XC some riders are good, the majority other than the top 20% are nothing special, and since most of them are not pro as you said, i don't consider them pure XC riders as most of them ride all sorts in different ways, some race both xc and DH and so on and are just bikers to me.

njee20

But your example was based on your experience of a low-level chippers race in the UK no? Where most people are just average members of the public, which makes it a rather redundant comparison!

Thewaylander

To be honest your argument lost me when you stopped talking about pro riders.

Simply the XC courses are a bit boring and lack technicality to allow for overtaking and fitness based racing, Alot of the pro's train hard and are good riders indeed, and alot of the feild are casual ridiers of varied level like any sport.

The argument started with the course, and most people simply pointed out that its probably gonna be crap and since the max hight of essex area is under 200meters this is liekly so. and that most people find the teechnical levels on display in the races to be poor, this could be riders and across a whole field of riders a large proportion are amatuer riders.
But more to the point its to do with the courses which allow almost road bikes off road and is the direction the sport has taken. The average trail center will show you tougher terrain and techncial riding. now bringing some of that into the XC to make it more interesting and consumer friendly would be nothing but good for the sport no?

When we on about people here being more skilled than XC racers i was sceptical too as i thought you meant pro, but half the people on this site go racing XC races and could be just the people you are on about. some people commit to XC races regularly because it gives them something to keep fit for. basiclly the people your are talking about is the Jo bloggs biker so i fail to se you argumetn with riders.

njee20

Nah, I was talking about the top world cup pros, there are plenty of people on here who go XC racing who can't ride a bike, I include myself in that category, I don't doubt there are better people than me on here! I'd be worried if there wasn't.

Your comment seemed to be "XC racers are rubbish, I beat loads at my chippers race last year", which bears little resemblance to the skill level of those winning world cup races.

I must leave this thread alone, but it's just rather entertaining!

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

Fitness is as significant in DH as bike skills in XC then. Should that balance be altered?

Fitness is important at a competitive level of any sport, even motorsports.

And as for the fitness test, I don't remember Peaty being fitten than Oli. More powerful, yes, and I think there was something about being able to sustain absolute maximum power output for longer, or something, but Oli had the most endurance.

I'd be intruiged to see how Gee Atherton compares, as I know his training regime is absolutely brutal.

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

I must leave this thread alone, but it's just rather entertaining!

Indeed, your beliefe in world class XC racers hainv legendary technical skills is very amusing.

njee20

Not legendary, but certainly better than the average forum dweller! Your belief that you are superior to professional sports people is even better!

Fitness is important at a competitive level of any sport, even motorsports.

I give you darts.

cee

I remember that article...

although i cant remember properly who was fittest, I wouldn't be surprised if it was peaty....the test included a very wide range of fitness including endurance, explosive power, sprinting, cardio....the whole bag...

I don't think there is any doubt that Oli would blow peaty away say in a velodrome...

I am struggling to think of a DH rider the entire WC field that I would say isn't that fit...even riders like fairclough and hill who downplay their fitness...those boys are riding xc and hitting the gym everyday, just like the rest are now.

Of course...some are remarkably fit, I would guess that Gee and Minaar would compare well against anyone in the XC field.

and darts isn't a sport...its a game....and a pub game at that.

supersonic

Peaty overall came out top in 3 of the 4 areas contested. Oli won the endurance.

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

Not legendary, but certainly better than the average forum dweller! Your belief that you are superior to professional sports people is even better!

Fitness is important at a competitive level of any sport, even motorsports.

I give you darts.

LMFAO! ok, I give you that one

I have to say though, your seemingly absolute belief that I am a poorly skilled rider is not only demeaning, it is quite aggravating.

supersonic

The top darts players are pretty committed though. Phil Taylor practises 8 hours a day - though is more about mental fatigue.

njee20

I don't think you're a poorly skilled rider, I fully expect you're a very good rider.

I do however, know how good some of the top professional riders are, so I am assuming that you are not at that level, which seems quite safe.

Your assumption that you are better than all the professionals is a significantly more wild one!

BigShot

cee wrote:

I don't think there is any doubt that Oli would blow peaty away say in a velodrome...

Which event?
From the summaries of the article I've seen here I expect Oli would win hands down in Madison, but the more explosive events like Keirin and the individual sprint would probably go to Peat. A team of Peat-clones would probably beat a team of Oli-clones in team sprint.
If Peat could catch Oli he'd probably win individual pursuit, but if not it'd likely be Oli's. Ditto the clones racing eachother in Team Pursuit.
The points race would probably be a close call though.

All in all I give 3 dead certs to Peat and 1 dead cert to Oli in the shape of Madison.
That leaves the two pursuit events and the points race as the deciding events.

If Peat (and his clones) can catch Oli in the (team) and individual pursuit that makes it 5-1 going into the points race as a final event.
If Oli stays away in the pursuits it's 3-3 going into the final points race event.

Either way the best outcome would be 4-3 to Oli - hardly blowing Peat away.... and depending on the outcomes of the pursuits and the points race it could be as much as 5-2 or 6-1 to Peat.

That's basing it on what I know the different standard velodrome races require and nothing more than the bits about the article mentioned above anyway.

and darts isn't a sport...its a game....and a pub game at that.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Anonymous

But you've never ridden with me, and you seem intent to put me down?

mea00csf

this is a bit tedious, someone can be fit in amany different ways, for example, I'm not quick on a bike, but can cycle for ages. does that mean someone who can easily beat me round a set distance xc course but can't cycle as far isn't as fit as me? no not at all.

yes the technical aspect is relatively low compared to DH, but could you still ride it perfectly and with total ease when you've been been racing at max effort for a couple hours (I have no idea how long an xc race is), probably not, that's the surely the point.

Did anyone see the world cup triathlon in London this weekend? shows what exhaustion can do to the body. The guy who was on the shoulder of the winner with a couple of hundred meters to go, eventually came in well down as he blew up big time, eventually staggering in looking as tho he was drunk, completely all over the place.

I'm not saying that that happens all the time to that degree, but to ignore the effects of exhaustion in endurance events saying "I could ride that" seems a bit ridiculous to me. Of course you could, but not to the speed/endurance standard required, which is what the race is testing.

njee20

But you've never ridden with me, and you seem intent to put me down?

That being my assumption, you're putting down the entire world cup XC field, which is yours. Perhaps my assumption is more personal!

I'll happily let you know if I'm in your neck of the woods, we can go for a ride and discuss this in person.

Anonymous

Triathletes freak me out. I'm almost certain they're not human. Saw the ending of the Iron Man once, and as soon as they crossed the line, they were talking casually, not out of breath at all.
That's just odd :shock:

Anonymous

njee20 wrote:

I'll happily let you know if I'm in your neck of the woods, we can go for a ride and discuss this in person.

We probably wouldn't talk to each other, since I often find XC racing snakes to be uncommunicative, and you find the same for freeridey types.
All in all, I don't think we'd get on very well.

cee

BigShot

your knowledge of track cycling far outstrips mine!

joec1

yeehaamcgee wrote:

njee20 wrote:

I'll happily let you know if I'm in your neck of the woods, we can go for a ride and discuss this in person.

We probably wouldn't talk to each other, since I often find XC racing snakes to be uncommunicative, and you find the same for freeridey types.
All in all, I don't think we'd get on very well.

you could get little "ghay" headsets and talk to each other like kids pretending to be the police?

Going by the rest of the convo that would suit you both? as it seems a little childish...

Its an opinion... Get over it and stay on topic lol....

Balance makes a good route, so lets see what thye build up, (if we can blag some plans from somewhere) potentially it could make riding over there more interesting that "flat.... flat..... oh... flat"

delta5

njee20 wrote:

Watch this, see some of the camera angles that pan with the rider, notably the one of Absalon around 1:08, you're gonna really struggle to do all that sort of stuff on a pre-existing course.

Looks more like CX than XC to me. At around 0:45 it looks like the riders are kind of pootling along - but maybe they are holding back from running into each other. I guess we're just used to seeing the Mega Avalanche or Peat and Atherton nailing DH with plenty of air, so an orderly queue of lycras riding gingerly down a few 10-inch steps seems an odd kind of competition!

Its MTB Captain . . but not as we know it.

BigShot

cee - I've watched a few races... :P
Since getting back on bikes and realising how much of a kick I get out of going as fast as I can (on roads, off-road I tend to be a lot more sedate with the odd bit of thrashing where I can manage it) I've been giving a fair bit of thought to getting into track racing.

Keirin looks mental though.
The Japanese bet on it almost religiously (and it has a slightly different format and some extra equipment rules) - search for Keirin on YouTube - the ones in neon colours are the Japanese one and the ones in "normal" gear (sponsor-covered lycra, then) are the rest. You'll see loads of crash footage on there - and probably see why I expect Peat would take that event. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MedBqoFPv-o&feature=fvw is a good race with Chris Hoy eating track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMn_ZJ4acvY is better still.

Bar Shaker

Hadleigh is not far from me and there was an article on the MTB track on our local BBC news, last night.

It will be the steepest MTB track of any recent Olympics!! What they showed looked really good and I am sure it will be a successful venue. Some forests, some open sections, should make for good tv coverage too. I am hoping to get tickets.

english_cj

For anyone interested in the Olympic site development at Hadleigh, I took a look over there a couple of days ago at what's been done so far.

I've uploaded some pics / vids (not the best I know but you get a rough idea)

Photos - http://www.flickr.com/photos/englishcj/sets/72157624505017759/
Vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6SNe9JaArc

handon94

njee20 wrote:

We can show case the country and what we have here. but we are jsut showing how limited and smallw e are to be fair.

That's not what it's about, that's more for the World Cup.

Fewer than 0.1% of the Olympic spectator tickets are for the mountain biking, it has the fewest of any event. I would be surprised if even 1% of the people who go are not mountain bikers!

Roadies on dirt? The Beijing course wasn't bad.

Watch this, see some of the camera angles that pan with the rider, notably the one of Absalon around 1:08, you're gonna really struggle to do all that sort of stuff on a pre-existing course.

im sorry but that track was as boring as riding around in circles in my back garden, i have a track better than that 6 miles down the road

Anonymous

The presence of all that lycra says it all

I still maintain that mountain biking should involve hills or mountains with rocks, roots and the like, and not be flat concrete like tracks, even XC. This is more like speed trials down the local towpath. Maybe the obstacles could be families walking with their kids along the trail

Still don't see why it can't be more like the stuff you get at the winter olympics. 4X would be great going by how much fun the snowboard and ski cross was.