2012 Olympic MTB course
Comments
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cee wrote:with respect to the soloists....its a fun event.. there are no bc point for it...its just for bragging rights...very different than even a nationals level xc bike race....
So? What does this tell you about the riders? Do they have to be earning points to be deserving winners and respected athletes? Fast is fast regardless of the prizes or lack of.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Northwind wrote:cee wrote:with respect to the soloists....its a fun event.. there are no bc point for it...its just for bragging rights...very different than even a nationals level xc bike race....
So? What does this tell you about the riders? Do they have to be earning points to be deserving winners and respected athletes? Fast is fast regardless of the prizes or lack of.
of course...my point was simply that at world class level....riders shouldn't be pushing their bikes...
those soloists are awesome....they are deserving and i have a lot of respect for them...funnily enough...i have more respect for them, than i do for world class athletes who push their bikes down descents and complain its too technical...
of course its technical....you are the best riders in the world! and paid to be so...Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
i have more respect for them, than i do for world class athletes who push their bikes down descents and complain its too technical...
Do you have any evidence of this? At all.
Bear in mind that there is no pre-requisite to be good to be at a World Cup, of course the vast majority are, but if you do the right races you can get the points to move up to Elite (in other countries where there's more races/fewer competitors it's even easier), then you can go to world cups, there's nothing in there that says you have to be professional, or even remotely competent on a bike! The top guys, the actual world class athletes, are all very very good riders.
I know a load of British guys who did the first 3 World Cups this season, and they're all very good riders. I really don't know where this idea that they all want a fireroad around a field actually comes from, is it just based on You Tube videos where people have been walking/running, and people actually have no idea?0 -
I will hold any further judgement until i have seen the olympic race....like you say..it might be great. hope so.Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
It will be a great race, it may not make good viewing! Very different success criteria.0
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Had to join this thread as I'm absolutley flabergasted than anyone can think a WC/Elite XC rider hasnt got technical skill and is just a roadie on fat tyres, I cant even bring mself to argue the point I'm so speechless but I will say that who ever thinks this has never seen a roadie ride off road! And to comparee XC to CX again obviously never done CX as they are miles apart which ironically is why CX is full of roadies! Maybe somebody needs to call Nick Craig and tell him he's shit'..all the bad cats in the bad hats..'0
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Just a quickie to chime in with a couple of points...
1> Some sort of need for it to be legal.
Absolute rubbish. Sorry.
Handguns are (to all intents and purposes) illegal in the UK. Even ones so slanted to sport shooting as to be basically useless are illegal here. Our national shooting team are forced to go abroad to train. That's how bad it is.
And yet - there's shooting at the London Olympics. How is it possible?
They are enacting a temporary change in the law to allow loads of people (who are no threat to anyone) with guns (that will never be pointed at anyone) into the country for the games and then changing it right back after.
Any idea that the route needs to be "legal" falls down right there.
2> Putting in a course and taking it out after.
Yes it's a complete, utter and disgusting waste of money, but that's par for the course in the Olympics.
Back to shooting - they are building a "best in the world" type shooting facility at the cost of £mumblemillion in order to give the best for the event. Then they are pulling it down after the games.
They are not using it as a prime opportunity to bring the sport back to the UK after the absolutely unbelievable knee-jerk nonsense that followed Hungerford and Dunblaine - they are spending a FORTUNE on a facility and then EVEN MORE to pull it down again.
Waste really does go hand in hand with the olympics.
The Olympic Games are a farce pure and simple. I mean for feck sake... they handed control of snowboarding the the SKIING governing body despite there already being a thriving SNOWBOARDER run world cup circuit.
I general we should just wince at the thought of all the money (our money, mind) being spent on the games when we're about to get the living crap kicked out of us in order to pay off the previous government's squandering.
IOC = JOKE!
Olympics = JOKE!
The people running the London Games = JOKE!
The people who comitted us to such an expense when we could ill afford it = JOKE!
The only thing I care about is what it's going to cost us. We can ill afford it, especially when some of the facilities won't ever get a chance to pay for themselves, to provide for the community or foster the next generation of athletes.
The games and IOC are so far removed from any form of reality that it how technical the course will or won't be doesn't even come into it.0 -
agree with cost issues and the sad case that lots of the infrastructure will be pulled down but the fact that this course had to be 'in London' and meet other criteria regards spectators/parking/ team buses etc and TV broadcast is a no brainer as far as I can see this is regardless of how sh*t anybodythinks the course wil be'..all the bad cats in the bad hats..'0
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Personally I reckon everyone who likes the olympics should chip in a few bob and have the best facilities imaginable built in Greece.
Every 4 years the whole world rocks up and competes. Greece gets a well needed boost to the economy (with, let's face it, their idea) and the rest of us never need to spend a 2 penny piece on the games ever again. Just make that one place as good as it can be and quit with the farce of bidding, cost overruns and building facilities only to pull them down again after... not forgetting the madness of changing a law to let shooting take place but changing them back and sending our shooters abroad again after.
Dunno where the winter olympics would go - just as long as they aren't wherever I'm snowboarding or skiing I'll be OK with it. Chamonix was the home of the first so going on my Greece logic it'd go there, but that place is busy enough already and it's EXACTLY where I tend to be (I hate the crowds but it has the best terrain in the world and a lovely town to I'm kinda stuck there) when I head for the hills so I object most strenuously to that one.
I actually kinda agree with the need for a TV-friendly course, but only because I don't see the olympics as much more than a travelling sports roadshow that costs a stinking fortune everywhere it lands. It really does belong on TV and so having a course that's not camera friendly is a bit mad.
Any argument that it furthers positive things like human rights was proven completely false when the roadshow hit Beijing. Nothing changed. At all.
It really is just a roadshow and a chance for political leaders to have a pissing contest about who's was the biggest. Beijing won that hands down and London will not beat it. Possibly China is the all-time winner. Who knows?0 -
They don't want to use a current location because it will get loads of coverage and then swamped and ruined.
Makes sense to build a one-off and then remove so the countryside don't get trashed.0 -
carbonfiend wrote:Had to join this thread as I'm absolutley flabergasted than anyone can think a WC/Elite XC rider hasnt got technical skill and is just a roadie on fat tyres, I cant even bring mself to argue the point I'm so speechless but I will say that who ever thinks this has never seen a roadie ride off road! And to comparee XC to CX again obviously never done CX as they are miles apart which ironically is why CX is full of roadies! Maybe somebody needs to call Nick Craig and tell him he's shoot
Ironically Nick Craig said in recent inteview( in MBR I think) that part of the reason that he moved away from MTB XC and took up Enduro riding was because the MTB XC courses were being moved into parks and getting shorter and that currently there is talk of making them shorter still to suit Belgian CX riders....
BTW the World Championship level "rider" in the youtube link earlier in the post certainly does display great skill while he carries his bike down Medusa's Drop without tripping up
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(couldn't watch this originally since I was accesing the net via firewall DRP)njee20 wrote:Watch this, yes it starts with a mincer, who appears not to get back on at the bottom, so may have a mechanical, and Paul Oldham about to get lapped, but watch Schurter and Absalon from 1:10 onwards, that's their 7th time down there, that's not slow descending, but any stretch of the imagination,
oh wow, mind = blown
:roll:
Seriously, that's your representation of great riding?0 -
At the risk of a thread (and thus 'discussion' resurrection) have we done the photos from the world cup this weekend? I'm sure the keyboard warriors will all admit to doing that 7 times on a 20lb carbon hardtail, at 95% of max HR, but I, for one, wouldn't!
Incidentally I didn't say that YouTube video was my representation of 'great riding', merely that they were going rather rapidly down there, I'd love to see you keep up!0 -
thats a cool photo for sure....
I admit..I probably wouldn't ride it with my saddle up to my armpits like that.....
did every rider in the race ride the drop like that on every lap?
95% max hr on the descents? I invoke shenigans on that one...dance and all!Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
Nah, but that would appease all the people who are quick behind a keyboard, and where's the fun in that!?
Your HR doesn't really come down in an XC race IME, you're not exactly sitting up like when you're out riding, I'll bet it's still bloody high!0 -
They are real crafty those belgium cx riders they way they have totally taken over at WC XC races pretending to be others riders from a different country, speaking a different language and no doubt wearing a disguise as well, in fact you do know Julian Absalon is really Stijn van Talkinonsense from Ghent'..all the bad cats in the bad hats..'0
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Those crap 'cross riders did it too, damn them and their complete lack of skill!
Sven Nys:
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To be honest, witht he XC riders i wouldn't slander there riding ability.
but with the bikes they ride for max speed, the trails are tailored for this. And then since they are not so huge, with some of the terrain it actually makes it faster to get off and run.. bit crap in my veiw really.
The depressing image XC in biking is down to the almost roady like racing it produced, with emphasis on fitness not trail handling skills, I mean the drop in pictures shown is nothing and I damn well expect a pro off road rider to clear that, otherwise why the hell are they profession off roaders?
The format needs to be address, with more skills sections and so on.0 -
otherwise why the hell are they profession off roaders?
They're not all professionals, the top 50 or so may be.0 -
njee20
You're right let's close this "discussion" once and for all.
The OP was after all about the location of the 2012 Olympic MTB XC course and the thread quickly descended (no pun intended) into a slanging match about the skills or otherwise of current MTB XC racers and forum members.
There's been far too many sweeping generalisations and hytserical , irrational rantings. There has been too much nonsense spouted by too many, leaving little room for properly thought out, reasoned, sensible debate.
XC riders like roadies wear Lycra,'nuff said 0 -
njee20 wrote:otherwise why the hell are they profession off roaders?
They're not all professionals, the top 50 or so may be.
If we are just on about people who race XC, I have a few times, but I don't count my self as an XC racer lol. most people go to the events for fun.
And the simple truth is half the people I have met at XC/Marthon events have technically been awful riders, but it didn't stop then having fun because some of them were just tremendously fit. I took part in one of the Merida marathons last year, and the course was awful but most riders praised it. to be honest for most of it we might as well have been on a road
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Everyone i have met at DH events which a few friends compete in, ALL the riders have been technically good.
I don't think current XC set up show cases bikers skills enough at all at the proffesional level, the pictures in this thread to look fantastic are things alot of do most rides and don't deserve biggging up as skillz.0 -
What puts me off a lot of these things is that they come across often to be more of a fitness exhibition than a test of skills. Not that I'm either fit or have any skills anyway.Thewaylander wrote:And the simple truth is half the people I have met at XC/Marthon events have technically been awful riders, but it didn't stop then having fun because some of them were just tremendously fit.0 -
If we take away the fitness, could we still ride the twisty turny bits as fast as them? Say over 1 lap? I still think we'd have no chance.0
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I still think we'd have no chance.
+1
XC is a balance of skill and fitness, some courses test one more than the other. DH obviously requires more skill, but frankly not that much fitness, XC racing is the opposite. Surely that's how it should be?
Anyway, I'm gonna leave this, as no one's going to change their opinion!0 -
supersonic wrote:If we take away the fitness, could we still ride the twisty turny bits as fast as them? Say over 1 lap? I still think we'd have no chance.
The professionals no, The rest of the feild possibly as I hammered alot of uhm when i was at the mini marthon last year. Pro level is stepping it up alot, but the amount of people that couldn't ride mud on there 1.6" tyres was comicc as they slithered as they were cruised by.0 -
The professionals no, The rest of the feild possibly as I hammered alot of uhm when i was at the mini marthon last year.
Your average XC race in the UK may have 3 professional riders, there aren't any more than that, 95% of an elite NPS field have full time jobs, and they'll still kick your ass! In the lower levels there are of course plenty of chippers, some who can really ride, but are very unfit, some who are very fit, but can't ride for shit! Basically everyone who raced the 'mini marathon' fits into one of those latter categories, it couldn't be less representative of the upper echelons of XC racing!0 -
I'd contest that DH racing requires "frankly not that much fitness".njee20 wrote:
+1I still think we'd have no chance.
XC is a balance of skill and fitness, some courses test one more than the other. DH obviously requires more skill, but frankly not that much fitness, XC racing is the opposite. Surely that's how it should be?
Anyway, I'm gonna leave this, as no one's going to change their opinion!
I will readily accept that they're not as fit as the XC guys, but at a competitive level, fitness can still make or break a rider's chances.
It's also a different kind of fitness, explosive power over short distance, versus long sustained endurance.
Like the difference, for example, between a 100 metre sprinter, and a triathlete. The triathlete would always destroy the specialist sprinter in a long distance race, but that's not to say the sprinter is not superhumanly fit in his own way.0 -
Fitness is as significant in DH as bike skills in XC then. Should that balance be altered?0
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yeehaamcgee wrote:
I'd contest that DH racing requires "frankly not that much fitness".njee20 wrote:
+1I still think we'd have no chance.
XC is a balance of skill and fitness, some courses test one more than the other. DH obviously requires more skill, but frankly not that much fitness, XC racing is the opposite. Surely that's how it should be?
Anyway, I'm gonna leave this, as no one's going to change their opinion!
I will readily accept that they're not as fit as the XC guys, but at a competitive level, fitness can still make or break a rider's chances.
It's also a different kind of fitness, explosive power over short distance, versus long sustained endurance.
Like the difference, for example, between a 100 metre sprinter, and a triathlete. The triathlete would always destroy the specialist sprinter in a long distance race, but that's not to say the sprinter is not superhumanly fit in his own way.
Did they not do a fitness test in MBUK a while back with Steve Peat, Oli beckinsale, and I think Chopper fielder and someone else, it might have been Chris Smith. They tested endurance, strength and some other stuff, the result of which ended with Peaty being the fittest0
