2012 Olympic MTB course
Comments
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I think most on here agree that the current courses are not that technical at present.
Are we talking DH or XC now!?
XC races are won on the climbs, and lost on the descents! Like it or not, descents are always going to be a small part of XC racing, by it's nature, they could make them harder, to favour the unfit DH boys who have rad skillz, but unless you're fit and can ride a bike you're still not gonna win!0 -
njee20
Do you actually read what people post, or just scan through it quickly and guess?0 -
Generally read it ta, from Nick's last post, it's quite hard to tell if he's still talking about DH, or if he's gone back to XC!0
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Now ,now people let's not get too aereated.
I was referring to the XC courses as indicated by the previous posts on the subject.0 -
^^ It was completely clear what nick1962 was on about.0
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Stretching it there a bit-Not seen too much DH but if you don't do the jump then you have to ride over it-not seen any chicken runs and definitley never seen anyone carryting a DH bike over a jump (too heavy even for non-mincing DHillers Very Happy !)
I think most on here agree that the current courses are not that technical at present.
That could be read as referring to DH, I don't really keep up with DH, so I don't know if there's a feeling that current courses aren't that technical, Steve Peat using 160/140 rotors at the World Champs would possibly support that. It was a genuine question!0 -
:roll:0
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cee wrote:what surprised me were the number of supposed top guys pushing down them...
thats the point though isn't it...a couple push...and everyone behind has to....
Yup. So from that point of view I guess it's hard to argue with taking out the most technical features, just because of the disrupting effect they have on everyone. If a decent percentage of the field, even the bottom feeders, can't deal with it then there's a pretty good chance that their incompetence will end up impacting the best riders at some point.
I spoke to one of the faster soloists at 10UTB, who was pushing down that slippery step of death, in the natural section between the 2 WC descents... He said "I'll be doing this about 10 times and pushing it costs me 30 seconds, but if I ride it badly once it could put me out of the race". And that makes sense I guess, but it's still a bit of a sad way to look at it. I was slow and unfit but I was there to ride a bike not to push it.Uncompromising extremist0 -
Oh, OT but it made me laugh... just before the strathpuffer this year, at one point it looked like the weather was going to make it a disaster area. Volunteers were out with snow shovels digging down 3 feet to the singletrack and stuff, and some of the roads to the race were completely closed.
So, some people asked "Do I have to bring a bike?" suggesting alpine skiing, or even snowshoes. So the organisers clarified, yes, it's a bike race- though you don't actually have to ride it, you can push or carry it all day if you want.
So then some sharp lad asked "What sort of a bike? Can I just put one of these in my rucksack?"
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_723923_langId_-1_categoryId_165602
Usually I wouldn't approve but that would have been bloody brilliant if someone had won like that. AND it's a singlespeed rigid
Uncompromising extremist0 -
Brian Lopes once won 4x race - he started by CARRYING the bike.
The bikes the XC racers use are a compromise - being very skittish, super light, skinny and steep angled they are not going to go over obstacles on downslopes very well - but on the twisty turny stuff, and upslopes, they excel.
I know I couldn't complete a lap in a time these guys do, they are bloody quick, and I guess it is the speed they do some bits on that make it more difficult than we realise.0 -
Some of the stuff in that 2010 Dalby XC race looks alot more technical than anything you will find on the new Cannock Monkey Trail. and they do it with a fair amount of speed too :shock:
I agree that competing at world level should involve no walking the bike up or down the course, but I wouldn't consider what I saw on that video to be below a red grade at all.0 -
all very interesting, most people appear to be moaning that the official definition (UCI??) of a mountain bike course doesn't correspond to what they think of as mountain biking.
Having lived up in Leeds/Sheffield and in the chilterns and mtb biked in trail centres in Wales, it's different to everyone.
One thing no-one on here who's arguing for the whole definition of xc racing to be changed to more technical seems to have forgotten is that DH runs are timed, one person on a course at a time, even 4X is only 4 on the course at a time. How technical can you make a course with a large field of competitors on at the same time.
Looking at making it more technical, parhaps they should do a combined event, a timed DH run with an XC race, it'd be like the nordic combined of the summer games.......maybe they could force them to do it on the bikes, trade off a light bike for speed on the xc with a burlier bike for speed on the DH 0 -
Now that would be genuinely great I reckon.mea00csf wrote:Looking at making it more technical, parhaps they should do a combined event, a timed DH run with an XC race, it'd be like the nordic combined of the summer games.......maybe they could force them to do it on the bikes, trade off a light bike for speed on the xc with a burlier bike for speed on the DH0 -
The "Worlds Best Rider" event:
XC Race,
DH Race,
4X Race,
Town centre crit, or Track.
Hill Climb.
5 Events, 5 days, all using EXACTLY the same bikes, equipment, for each event.
Live on Sky, next year. Tickets available from Splottboy Inc...0 -
They used to do that in the 90s, then the events got increasingly differentiated, the trouble with an event like that would be that the DH would likely be more tame, the XC would be slower, the crit would just be daft, the 4X would probably be alright! You end up with an event which is a mash up of all the different disciplines, without being a proper representation of any of them!
The Singletrack Weekender had competitions like that anyway, so they're out there!0 -
Northwind wrote:cee wrote:what surprised me were the number of supposed top guys pushing down them...
thats the point though isn't it...a couple push...and everyone behind has to....
Yup. So from that point of view I guess it's hard to argue with taking out the most technical features, just because of the disrupting effect they have on everyone. If a decent percentage of the field, even the bottom feeders, can't deal with it then there's a pretty good chance that their incompetence will end up impacting the best riders at some point.
I spoke to one of the faster soloists at 10UTB, who was pushing down that slippery step of death, in the natural section between the 2 WC descents... He said "I'll be doing this about 10 times and pushing it costs me 30 seconds, but if I ride it badly once it could put me out of the race". And that makes sense I guess, but it's still a bit of a sad way to look at it. I was slow and unfit but I was there to ride a bike not to push it.
which i guess is fine for a fun event like tutb with a very varied level of skill and fitness and reaslistically different goals too......but at world level? Racing for olympic medals? surely these guys are the best in their countries at riding xc?Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
Yes, and the ones who are racing for the medals don't run down the hills, unless an obstacle forces them too (ie fallen rider), even then, it's incredibly rare!0
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i have no idea what a crit is, but I still like the idea of a big all-encompassing event.0
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A crit is a road race around a very short, tight course, usually raced as a time eg 45 minutes + 10 laps, they're very fast and good for the spectators. The Tour Series is a good example.0
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Ah right. That has no place in a mountain bike all-rounder event then.
Why "crit" though? I presume it either stands for something, or is shorthand?0 -
It's short for Criterium0
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:?0
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The XC DH combined thing exists (at least on the continent) - check this out.Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0
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Isn't there the Kielder Avalanche, is that along those lines?
Arguably the Trans Wales is a bit like that, you have to ride between stages, untimed, then there are TT stages. Not any more technical than an XC race though.0 -
quote="yeehaamcgee"]:?[/quote]
It's from the Latin 'crit' meaning to ride like a lunatic and 'erium' - to crash heavily into a solid object... probably.
They're great fun to watch, seriously skillful when ridden well and extrememly bloody when not.0 -
Singletrack Weekend was a bit like this wasn't it?cee wrote:which i guess is fine for a fun event like tutb with a very varied level of skill and fitness and reaslistically different goals too......but at world level? Racing for olympic medals? surely these guys are the best in their countries at riding xc?
Well, depends. I reckon the top soloists in the enduro events are at a very high level of athleticism in their speciality, they're really in a different league from most of the field- knocking out more laps than most teams of 3 Just a guess but I reckon most olympic XC riders would be at that level but they wouldn't just walk away with it, because of the specialisation.
But even at a high level there's still these tactical decisions, the techy climb at Dalby seemed to be causing that sort of thinking- what's faster, riding and risking failing, or a fast controlled dismount and run? What's more efficient? I quite like that. Thinking your way up the hills not just being about grunt.Uncompromising extremist0 -
ah, gotchameesterbond wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote::?
It's from the Latin 'crit' meaning to ride like a lunatic and 'erium' - to crash heavily into a solid object... probably.
They're great fun to watch, seriously skillful when ridden well and extrememly bloody when not. 0 -
Northwind wrote:Singletrack Weekend was a bit like this wasn't it?cee wrote:which i guess is fine for a fun event like tutb with a very varied level of skill and fitness and reaslistically different goals too......but at world level? Racing for olympic medals? surely these guys are the best in their countries at riding xc?
Well, depends. I reckon the top soloists in the enduro events are at a very high level of athleticism in their speciality, they're really in a different league from most of the field- knocking out more laps than most teams of 3 Just a guess but I reckon most olympic XC riders would be at that level but they wouldn't just walk away with it, because of the specialisation.
But even at a high level there's still these tactical decisions, the techy climb at Dalby seemed to be causing that sort of thinking- what's faster, riding and risking failing, or a fast controlled dismount and run? What's more efficient? I quite like that. Thinking your way up the hills not just being about grunt.
with respect to the soloists....its a fun event.. there are no bc point for it...its just for bragging rights...very different than even a nationals level xc bike race....
a new event called mountain-negotiation then? Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.
H.G. Wells.0 -
Well, depends. I reckon the top soloists in the enduro events are at a very high level of athleticism in their speciality, they're really in a different league from most of the field- knocking out more laps than most teams of 3 Laughing
Hard to say over 24 hours, because that calls on mental reserves and what not quite a bit more, but whilst Matt Page and Ant White etc are seriously fit and very good riders, I reckon they would get absolutely rinsed by Christophe Sauser/Nino Schurter et al in anything up to, and including 12 hours!what's faster, riding and risking failing, or a fast controlled dismount and run? What's more efficient? I quite like that. Thinking your way up the hills not just being about grunt.
I was talking to a quick rider at an NPS a few years back, there was a slippery climb out of a river, still very rideable, but he was choosing to leave it in the big ring, honk up the climb until he lost traction, run the last bit, re mount and ride off on the subsequent fireroad, still in the big ring. Of course he could've ridden all of it, but he'd have dropped a second shifting down, hit the climb at a similar pace (it wasn't long), then wasted another couple of seconds shifting up. There is a difference between running because of a lack of skill, and running because it's quite simply faster!
Can't really think of any decent examples on descents though, assuming you've got a clear run it's almost always gonna be quicker to ride!0 -
njee20 wrote:They used to do that in the 90s, then the events got increasingly differentiated, the trouble with an event like that would be that the DH would likely be more tame, the XC would be slower, the crit would just be daft, the 4X would probably be alright! You end up with an event which is a mash up of all the different disciplines, without being a proper representation of any of them!
The Singletrack Weekender had competitions like that anyway, so they're out there!
sounds exactly like a nordic combined then .....that's ski-jumping and cross country skiing if people don't know (who thought of putting those 2 together :? :shock: ) 0
