Armstrong was really good today

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  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    edited July 2010
    knedlicky wrote:
    Back to the thread title - 'Armstrong was really good today' - I think he was.

    His overall time and performance was good, he toiled along and kept up with the (almost) best, he didn't try to take any of the glamour, he remained modest in his performance and stayed in the background, he looked capable but not commanding.

    I imagine he was in the role and at the level he should have been all along.
    Perhaps he is actually riding clean. Perhaps we are, at long last, seeing the 'real' Armstrong. (A rider who, coincidentally, looks a lot like the one who raced in the days before the 'Texan Messiah' teamed up with Michele Ferrari).
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    lucybears wrote:
    Well, if they are both riding clean now, we know which of them "was really good today" The older man !
    And who knows, without all the doping the same situation might well have existed in years gone by.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    I remember the other year when Moreau pulled out of the tour for no reason claiming a shoulder injury. It was rumoured he was targeted by testers and so pulled out to avoid a positive test.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    INTERNETHATE.jpg

    fire up the anger motors
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    BikingBernie wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:
    Back to the thread title - 'Armstrong was really good today' - I think he was.

    His overall time and performance was good, he toiled along and kept up with the (almost) best, he didn't try to take any of the glamour, he remained modest in his performance and stayed in the background, he looked capable but not commanding.

    I imagine he was in the role and at the level he should have been all along.
    Perhaps he is actually riding clean. Perhaps we are, at long last, seeing the 'real' Armstrong. (A rider who, coincidentally, looks a lot like the one who raced in the days before the 'Texan Messiah' teamed up with Michele Ferrari).

    BB he's far stronger now than 1995 in the TDF so you saying he took drugs then and cleaner now but he's far better than the 25 year old LA who you say was doped :? :? he's an old man now as well :?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mididoctors wrote:
    INTERNETHATE.jpg

    fire up the anger motors

    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    On the Yahoo oil spill site there are bunches of people blogging in who appear to not like what anyone, anywhere, anytime, is doing about anything, oil related.
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    dennisn wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    INTERNETHATE.jpg

    fire up the anger motors

    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    On the Yahoo oil spill site there are bunches of people blogging in who appear to not like what anyone, anywhere, anytime, is doing about anything, oil related.

    I think every YouTube video I've seen, the comments thread has descended into hatred. Even music videos of seemingly unoffensive bands have slanging matches in their comments.

    Pathetic really
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    My take on Youtube comments has always been that they perform a useful function in society by keping the kind of moron who comments on Youtube videos away from teh rest of humanity whilst they're on there.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    paulcuthbert wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    INTERNETHATE.jpg

    fire up the anger motors

    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    On the Yahoo oil spill site there are bunches of people blogging in who appear to not like what anyone, anywhere, anytime, is doing about anything, oil related.

    I think every YouTube video I've seen, the comments thread has descended into hatred. Even music videos of seemingly unoffensive bands have slanging matches in their comments.

    Pathetic really

    Maybe it's the only way to insure, or at least up your chances, of getting a reply.
    I like to get replies and I think so does everyone else. So we push the envelope and, bingo, we get a reply from someone else pushing the envelope. Maybe the sad truth is that touchy feely just doesn't create any interest. :? :? :? Then again I could be all wrong. :? :?
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    My take on Youtube comments has always been that they perform a useful function in society by keping the kind of moron who comments on Youtube videos away from teh rest of humanity whilst they're on there.

    That's a very good point
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BB he's far stronger now than 1995 in the TDF so you saying he took drugs then and cleaner now but he's far better than the 25 year old LA who you say was doped :? :? he's an old man now as well :?
    Confusing isn't it? Perhaps the answer is that both him and Moreau are doped to the gills. :wink:
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Mididoctors, Paul and Dennis. This is what you need. :wink:

    20kwao.jpg
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Mididoctors, Paul and Dennis. This is what you need. :wink:

    20kwao.jpg

    :lol::lol::lol::lol:

    Got to hand it to you BB. You DO come up with some good sh*t.
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Mididoctors, Paul and Dennis. This is what you need. :wink:

    20kwao.jpg

    I know, I can never get enough of Lance without his shirt off. Mmmmmm...
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BB he's far stronger now than 1995 in the TDF so you saying he took drugs then and cleaner now but he's far better than the 25 year old LA who you say was doped :? :? he's an old man now as well :?
    Confusing isn't it? Perhaps the answer is that both him and Moreau are doped to the gills. :wink:

    I'm only referring to LA. He couldn't ride like he did yesterday on madeleine or in the prologue when at age 25-the age when you say he was doped. If as you say he was doped at 25, and cleaner now, and past it age wise now, then why is he riding much better as a TDF GC rider cleaner and aged now than at 25?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    Dave_1 wrote:
    If as you say he was doped at 25, and cleaner now, and past it age wise now, then why is he riding much better as a TDF GC rider cleaner and aged now than at 25?

    His bike is a lot lighter now - and so is he.

    See, it's physics - not chemistry :D
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    paulcuthbert wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    If as you say he was doped at 25, and cleaner now, and past it age wise now, then why is he riding much better as a TDF GC rider cleaner and aged now than at 25?

    His bike is a lot lighter now - and so is he.

    See, it's physics - not chemistry :D

    ah, maybe the uci let La ride a specially light bike secretly :lol: I can't see how he is slower doped in 1995 than the cleaner LA bb thinks we might be seeing now. He was very good at the sport probably :idea: .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Dave_1 wrote:
    He couldn't ride like he did yesterday on madeleine or in the prologue when at age 25-the age when you say he was doped. If as you say he was doped at 25, and cleaner now, and past it age wise now, then why is he riding much better as a TDF GC rider cleaner and aged now than at 25?
    He's probabaly benefiting from the hundreds of thousands of dollars he paid to Ferrari to develop an effective doping 'program' for him.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    He couldn't ride like he did yesterday on madeleine or in the prologue when at age 25-the age when you say he was doped. If as you say he was doped at 25, and cleaner now, and past it age wise now, then why is he riding much better as a TDF GC rider cleaner and aged now than at 25?
    He's probabaly benefiting from the hundreds of thousands of dollars he paid to Ferrari to develop an effective doping 'program' for him.

    but you said on the previous page, he is cleaner now..., but above you're saying he's doping in this TDF. Make up your mind..wasting time here. Stay with what you posted originally or say you were wrong and you believe he's now doping. If the below is what you think then how is he better cleaner now and old, than at 25 on EPO like you said he used? :lol:

    " osted 14 Jul 2010 06:08


    Perhaps he is actually riding clean. Perhaps we are, at long last, seeing the 'real' Armstrong. (A rider who, coincidentally, looks a lot like the one who raced in the days before the 'Texan Messiah' teamed up with Michele Ferrari).     "
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Mididoctors, Paul and Dennis. This is what you need. :wink:

    20kwao.jpg

    I think you have me confused with someone else
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mididoctors wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Mididoctors, Paul and Dennis. This is what you need. :wink:

    20kwao.jpg

    I think you have me confused with someone else

    We would be happy to have you as one of "US" though. :wink::wink:
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Dave_1 wrote:
    but you said on the previous page, he is cleaner now..., but above you're saying he's doping in this TDF. Make up your mind..wasting time here. Stay with what you posted originally or say you were wrong and you believe he's now doping.
    I was making the assumption that Moreau was still racing clean, so showing that good performances are possible even at his age. On the basis of this I gave Armstrong 'the benefit of the doubt', especially given he is riding much less strongly than last year. I am quite prepared to accept that I might well be wrong.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    dennisn wrote:

    We would be happy to have you as one of "US" though. :wink::wink:

    this is the apocalypse
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BB he's far stronger now than 1995 in the TDF so you saying he took drugs then and cleaner now but he's far better than the 25 year old LA who you say was doped :? :? he's an old man now as well :?
    Confusing isn't it? Perhaps the answer is that both him and Moreau are doped to the gills. :wink:

    I'm only referring to LA. He couldn't ride like he did yesterday on madeleine or in the prologue when at age 25-the age when you say he was doped. If as you say he was doped at 25, and cleaner now, and past it age wise now, then why is he riding much better as a TDF GC rider cleaner and aged now than at 25?

    Ah, but in 95 the peloton was even dirtier than it is today, with the likes of Rominger, Riis and Pantani riding with incredible HCTs.

    Also, I'm not sure why people assume Armstrong is clean because of one bad day. He got pretty shook up in a few crashes and then had to go into the red just to get back on at the foot of the Ramaz. He also may have bonked and have suffered through heat exhaustion (as he did to some extent in 03).

    Too many variables, you can't compare this year with 95 in any meaningful way.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    mididoctors wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    We would be happy to have you as one of "US" though. :wink::wink:

    this is the apocalypse

    Stay clam, take a deep breathe, ..........exhale.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Back to the thread title - 'Armstrong was really good today' - I think he was (now speaking of stage 10, Wednesday).

    I don't mean his riding (I don't remember the camera ever picking him out in the highlights I saw), I mean his simple boyish and buoyant joy, seemingly sincere too, about the fact Paulinho, a member of his team, won.
    It showed a side of him I didn't think he had at all.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    knedlicky wrote:
    Back to the thread title - 'Armstrong was really good today' - I think he was (now speaking of stage 10, Wednesday).

    I don't mean his riding (I don't remember the camera ever picking him out in the highlights I saw), I mean his simple boyish and buoyant joy, seemingly sincere too, about the fact Paulinho, a member of his team, won.
    It showed a side of him I didn't think he had at all.

    He did some good work early on too, disrupting attempts to chase or bridge to the then four man breakaway (along with CdE). Of course some saw this as some sort of anti-french conspiracy on his part rather than good teamwork.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Dave_1 wrote:
    BB he's far stronger now than 1995 in the TDF so you saying he took drugs then and cleaner now but he's far better than the 25 year old LA who you say was doped :? :? he's an old man now as well :?
    The difference is he has a TUE now, that's all.
    Didn't have one in 1999 and got caught.
    His Doctors soon remedied that for him and money sorted the rest of the problem.

    In 1996 he was becoming a lesser rider than Poulidor with his placings.
    A windbag that could be beaten.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • paulcuthbert
    paulcuthbert Posts: 1,016
    deejay wrote:
    The difference is he has a TUE now, that's all.
    Didn't have one in 1999 and got caught.

    Do you really think he could have exerted enough influence over the governing body in 1999 before he had won a Tour de France to overturn a positive test?

    Seems highly unlikely to me! More like after the 3rd or 4th Tour- but before the 1st? That doesn't make sense
    The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Think you have to put that Tour in context though - post Festina, desperate for a great story, along comes Armstrong not only offering the ultimate feelgood comeback but the opportunity to grow the sport to the US audience? I'd say it was pretty much a no brainer that the UCI would want to protect that kind of opportunity

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