Armstrong was really good today
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Lance WAS good today!The most painful climb in Northern Ireland http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs200.snc1/6776_124247198694_548863694_2335754_8016178_n.jpg0
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I've enjoyed cycling much more in the past couple of seasons (since 2007, not since LA's retirement) as increasingly tough measures are taken against doping. The racing (especially GTs) is also becoming a lot more open and exciting, much better than the predictable processions that we had a few years back.
No way ; the more things change, the more they stay the same.
I remember Phil Ligget announcing that one year where Vinokourov made that great ride and Phil was saying "This is unbelievable" and I knew it was and figured what was up and soon thereafter Vino was caught and also Ricco and Piepule were caught early in a subsequent tour, the Women's champions for both Italy and Spain not allowed to ride in the Beijing summer Olympics. It's a joke to think the sport is policing itself better and though I respect the author's posts on Armstrong, this kind of statement reflects a blind bias against the rider.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
I have never said that I am not interested in cycling, and I have now followed and being involved in the sport for almost 40 years. What I have said is that I could not bring myself to visit the Tour ever since I witnessed Landis' phoney 'win' in 2006. I made the effort on Sunday because it made good day out on the bike and the race covered some of my favourite local roads. And I could have hardly known in advance that Armstrong was going to crack on that particular day, could I? In fact I thought he was going to be right up there.Moray Gub wrote:i am intrigued by why you suddenly visted the TDF becuase recently you stated that you were not intersted in cycling at all. You wouldnt go and watch it etc yet on what was probably the worst day of LAs Tours post 99 you were suddenly on an Alpine slope to see it...
I agree Moray Gub, BB in France rings hollow...BB, the sport's full of drugs and they are all crap and no wins have merit, Bassons would have won the TDF so...go away and find another forum and sport to follow is perhaps the best step for you0 -
The main reason I stay is knowing how much my posts wind up people like you.Dave_1 wrote:go away and find another forum and sport to follow is perhaps the best step for you
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paulcuthbert wrote:Lance WAS good today!
watched Lucien Van Impe and joop Zoetemelk cross the Tourmalet , way out of the GC, age 38, many minutes down. The TDF that year was considered not very hard. LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
The main reason I stay is knowing how much my posts wind up people like you.Dave_1 wrote:go away and find another forum and sport to follow is perhaps the best step for you
people who like cycling and believe in the wins they see? Nice0 -
Going by his ride today I would say that Moreau - who is also older than Armstrong - showed that age need be no barrier to performance. What's more 'peleton gossip' has it that whilst Armstrong gets by on rest-day transfusions of "800 ml of packed cells" even back in 2000 Moreau was riding on "nothing. Hct of 39%"...Dave_1 wrote:LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Going by his ride today I would say that Moreau - who is also older than Armstrong - showed that age need be no barrier to performance. What's more 'peloton gossip' has it that whilst Armstrong gets by on transfusions of "800 ml of packed cells" even back in 2000 Moreau was riding on "nothing. Hct of 39%"...Dave_1 wrote:LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical
lol 0 -
Yes, Dave, you forgot the holy scripture of the Frankie/JV IM. Remember Floyd has the photos and Ullrich was riding clean..Le Blaireau (1)0
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DaveyL wrote:Yes, Dave, you forgot the holy scripture of the Frankie/JV IM. Remember Floyd has the photos and Ullrich was riding clean..
Yes, BB didn't post that. I'd argue Moreau wasn't a big hitter in the dirty era or cleaner era as both still were level enough that the best shone quite a lot of the time e.g. Musseuw, ullrich, Indurain, Armstrong, Ludwig...but what I would I know?...I only raced regular against Moreau in 1991 and have only those impressions....Berzen, hung his wheel in lead group in Mur de bertange in a 7 day event in 1992...way better than Moreau...both used, one far superior0 -
I'd have to say that Raymond Poulidor finishing 3rd at the age of 40 in his 14th Tour did a fair amount to raise the profile of the older rider
No, Dennis, I wouldn't waste an emotion on Armstrong whose significance to the daily running of my life, job and family is absolutely minimal. But I'm quite happy to invest a significant amount of emotion in the sport of pro cycling? Do you see the difference?0 -
micron wrote:I'd have to say that Raymond Poulidor finishing 3rd at the age of 40 in his 14th Tour did a fair amount to raise the profile of the older rider
No, Dennis, I wouldn't waste an emotion on Armstrong whose significance to the daily running of my life, job and family is absolutely minimal. But I'm quite happy to invest a significant amount of emotion in the sport of pro cycling? Do you see the difference?
Poulidor was amazing.. Hinault was burned out by 32, like Indurain too, mercx, lemond, fignon...all slowing early 30s...it takes something special to ride well late 30s at a big tour. Paris Roubaix was won by Duclos Lassale 39, Mussuew 37?...easier in one days perhaps?0 -
micron wrote:I'd have to say that Raymond Poulidor finishing 3rd at the age of 40 in his 14th Tour did a fair amount to raise the profile of the older rider
No, Dennis, I wouldn't waste an emotion on Armstrong whose significance to the daily running of my life, job and family is absolutely minimal. But I'm quite happy to invest a significant amount of emotion in the sport of pro cycling? Do you see the difference?
Sure, I see the difference. So your quote of "Leipheimer(horrid little man)" didn't have any emotion attached to it? It was strictly about "the sport". You've cleared things up immensely.0 -
Dave_1 wrote:paulcuthbert wrote:Lance WAS good today!
watched Lucien Van Impe and joop Zoetemelk cross the Tourmalet , way out of the GC, age 38, many minutes down. The TDF that year was considered not very hard. LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical
That's because LA's a doped scumbag and no one likes him
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dougzz wrote:Dave_1 wrote:paulcuthbert wrote:Lance WAS good today!
watched Lucien Van Impe and joop Zoetemelk cross the Tourmalet , way out of the GC, age 38, many minutes down. The TDF that year was considered not very hard. LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical
That's because LA's a doped scumbag and no one likes him
Say it like it is! 0 -
dennisn wrote:micron wrote:I'd have to say that Raymond Poulidor finishing 3rd at the age of 40 in his 14th Tour did a fair amount to raise the profile of the older rider
No, Dennis, I wouldn't waste an emotion on Armstrong whose significance to the daily running of my life, job and family is absolutely minimal. But I'm quite happy to invest a significant amount of emotion in the sport of pro cycling? Do you see the difference?
Sure, I see the difference. So your quote of "Leipheimer(horrid little man)" didn't have any emotion attached to it? It was strictly about "the sport". You've cleared things up immensely.
I have direct personal experience of Leipheimer being a 'horrid little man, an experience shared by a few others I've spoken to. No time for the fans and race organisers, but all smiles when the media see him with the fans and race organisers. Never been a fan of that kind of duplicity. When someone is rude and obnoxious to you doesn't that generally provoke some kind of reaction? Give me someone whose simply out and out rude like Fignon back in the day
Anyway, it's been fun Dennis but I doubt neither you nor I need to continue this little game - I know why I've made every statement I've made on this site and I imagine you have far better things to do with your time to keep searching through my posts to try and trip me up. Again, as I think I explained earlier, I never be pretended to be absolutely consistent in my opinions and am quite capable of changing my mind. Have never cared for Evans but his utterly courageous ride today (and for the majority of stage 8) with a broken elbow brought nothing but but glory to the Rainbow Jersey.0 -
micron wrote:dennisn wrote:micron wrote:I'd have to say that Raymond Poulidor finishing 3rd at the age of 40 in his 14th Tour did a fair amount to raise the profile of the older rider
No, Dennis, I wouldn't waste an emotion on Armstrong whose significance to the daily running of my life, job and family is absolutely minimal. But I'm quite happy to invest a significant amount of emotion in the sport of pro cycling? Do you see the difference?
Sure, I see the difference. So your quote of "Leipheimer(horrid little man)" didn't have any emotion attached to it? It was strictly about "the sport". You've cleared things up immensely.
Anyway, it's been fun Dennis but I doubt neither you nor I need to continue this little game -
I'll go along with that. Let's agree to disagree.0 -
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Doobz wrote:
Cold, very cold, AND in poor taste. :oops: :oops:0 -
Dave_1 wrote:micron wrote:I'd have to say that Raymond Poulidor finishing 3rd at the age of 40 in his 14th Tour did a fair amount to raise the profile of the older rider
No, Dennis, I wouldn't waste an emotion on Armstrong whose significance to the daily running of my life, job and family is absolutely minimal. But I'm quite happy to invest a significant amount of emotion in the sport of pro cycling? Do you see the difference?
Poulidor was amazing.. Hinault was burned out by 32, like Indurain too, mercx, lemond, fignon...all slowing early 30s...it takes something special to ride well late 30s at a big tour. Paris Roubaix was won by Duclos Lassale 39, Mussuew 37?...easier in one days perhaps?
Poulidor was incredible. Not only did he place 2nd in the TDF at age 38, but he was also 3rd at age 40 in the TDF! Insane! He was 3rd in the TDF in 1962, a full 14 years earlier! I think he was missing that killer instinct to really take the top position, but easily the best rider in history over that length of time.
14 years apart, he made the podium. Wow.0 -
donrhummy wrote:
Poulidor was incredible. Not only did he place 2nd in the TDF at age 38, but he was also 3rd at age 40 in the TDF! Insane! He was 3rd in the TDF in 1962, a full 14 years earlier! I think he was missing that killer instinct to really take the top position, but easily the best rider in history over that length of time.
He was also extremely unpopular with his peers. The public loved him but his fellow riders thought he was a complete tool.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:donrhummy wrote:
Poulidor was incredible. Not only did he place 2nd in the TDF at age 38, but he was also 3rd at age 40 in the TDF! Insane! He was 3rd in the TDF in 1962, a full 14 years earlier! I think he was missing that killer instinct to really take the top position, but easily the best rider in history over that length of time.
He was also extremely unpopular with his peers. The public loved him but his fellow riders thought he was a complete tool.
Sure, but I think that's partially due to his lack of confidence/ambition and partially due to the fact that Anquetil hated him with a passion and Anquetil was the Patron of cycling. (And of course, part could be the guy was indeed a tool)
We certainly don't see riding like this anymore (outside sprints):
http://www.bikerconnection.de/joomla/im ... ulidor.jpg0 -
Yes and No.Dave_1 wrote:
lolBikingBernie wrote:
Going by his ride today I would say that Moreau - who is also older than Armstrong - showed that age need be no barrier to performance. What's more 'peloton gossip' has it that whilst Armstrong gets by on transfusions of "800 ml of packed cells" even back in 2000 Moreau was riding on "nothing. Hct of 39%"...Dave_1 wrote:LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical
Moreau was banned for 4 months in the mid/late 90s for taking a few steroids, an amateur-type offence. From my French contacts at the time, I think he was afterwards seen as clean and regarded with some sympathy as someone who'd never have big success but always gave his best, a sort of modern Bernadeau.
However, it's rumoured Moreau started on the doping trail again when with Credit Agricole, apparently most of the team doing the same then (Moreau's time with CA, 2002-2005, overlapping with Jens Voigt time there 1998-2004 !).
Moreau's later successes in the French Championship and Dauphine Libere in 2006-2007 with Ag2r are therefore regarded with some scepticism. Maybe rightly so, but my impression has always been, he is at least 'more clean' than others, if there can be such.0 -
BikingBernie wrote:
Going by his ride today I would say that Moreau - who is also older than Armstrong - showed that age need be no barrier to performance. What's more 'peloton gossip' has it that whilst Armstrong gets by on rest-day transfusions of "800 ml of packed cells" even back in 2000 Moreau was riding on "nothing. Hct of 39%"...Dave_1 wrote:LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical
Is this the same Moreau who admitted taking EPO in 98 and tested positive for steroids prior to that ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Back to the thread title - 'Armstrong was really good today' - I think he was.
His overall time and performance was good, he toiled along and kept up with the (almost) best, he didn't try to take any of the glamour, he remained modest in his performance and stayed in the background, he looked capable but not commanding.
I imagine he was in the role and at the level he should have been all along.0 -
Moray Gub wrote:BikingBernie wrote:
Going by his ride today I would say that Moreau - who is also older than Armstrong - showed that age need be no barrier to performance. What's more 'peloton gossip' has it that whilst Armstrong gets by on rest-day transfusions of "800 ml of packed cells" even back in 2000 Moreau was riding on "nothing. Hct of 39%"...Dave_1 wrote:LA showed athletes need not give up in their late 30s...but I saw a precious little recognition of that on here..typical
Is this the same Moreau who admitted taking EPO in 98 and tested positive for steroids prior to that ?
Well, if they are both riding clean now, we know which of them "was really good today"
The older man !interview.cyclingfever.com0 -
There are always physical anomalies such as these cyclists.
Look at Sir Stanley Matthews, he played until a ripe ol' age and was a vegetarian, taking care of oneself is part of it.0 -
CTL wrote:There are always physical anomalies such as these cyclists.
Look at Sir Stanley Matthews, he played until a ripe ol' age and was a vegetarian, taking care of oneself is part of it.
Stanley Matthews? just a child...
Beryl Burton
http://cyclodelic.wordpress.com/2009/09 ... yl-burton/
and Reg Harris
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Britis ... s_main.htm
might have been better examples if you know your sport.interview.cyclingfever.com0
