What makes hardtails so much fun?!
Comments
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After years on full bouncers I bought a HT earlier this year and frankly I love it... reckon I use it about the same amount as the FS.
If people would actually recognise that there is more to mountain biking than ticking off trail centres, then they'd understand quite why HTs will always have their place.
Can't say that I'm itching for a CX bike though - they're just wrong.
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yeehaamcgee wrote:what the hell is all this "comfort" from a full suss malarkey? Do you people ride everywhere siting down?
Do you ride anywhere sitting down?0 -
Ok, by comfort I meant 120mm of travel.. my mistake :oops:
I probably sit down for most of the time on my bike though, except for the downs
Don't really need to stand up and mash the pedals, I can do that pretty well sitting down :P 0 -
Only if I'm on smooth fireroads or similar.bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:what the hell is all this "comfort" from a full suss malarkey? Do you people ride everywhere siting down?
Do you ride anywhere sitting down?
The thing is, a full suss is like a good shag. It's just great.
A hardtail is like a wan*, sure, it's still enjoyable, but it's not the real thing.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:The thing is, a full suss is like a good shag. It's just great.
A hardtail is like a wan*, sure, it's still enjoyable, but it's not the real thing.
Well that's a sensible argument :roll:
Or maybe a HT is like going barebackyeehaamcgee wrote:
Only if I'm on smooth fireroads or similar.bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:what the hell is all this "comfort" from a full suss malarkey? Do you people ride everywhere siting down?
Do you ride anywhere sitting down?
Right, and those fireroads aren't actually that smooth. At least not on a HT. Every littl eroack and bump gets transmitted through the frame.
As it happens I love my HT. I also demoed a few FSs and loved those too.
I think a better topic heading would have been "What makes bikes so fun?!".
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You seem to forget that I do also have a hardtail, I don't need you to explain what fireroads feel like on it...
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yeehaamcgee wrote:You seem to forget that I do also have a hardtail, I don't need you to explain what fireroads feel like on it...
You seem to forget that I have also ridden plenty of FSes.
:roll:
So fireroads are smoother/as smooth on your HT as on your FS?
Sounds like the FS is broken TBH.
From the Spark 10, Genius 10, Zesty and X-Control that I've ridden as well as my HT, the FSes take away that buzz from the trail. In the fun bits you're standing up anyway, I agree, but on a technical climb where a rider might need to stay seated, or a long fireroad slog, the difference, for me at least, was noticeable. Incidentally, my favourite out of those FSes was the Spark, still connected enough to the trail to be fun, without just wallowing and floating over everything like the Genius and Zesty. Whereas you'd proabably hate the Spark and prefer something with more travel and slacker angles. Different strokes.0 -
and yet rough rocky track on my Sirius hardtail, with double bend A stays, are virtually invisible with the right tyre pressure - and that's sat on the saddle. And by comparison my old Giant hardtail was like riding a............i dunno.......'a cold dead thing' that absorbed and transmitted every bump / vibration through my body (if i actually sat on the saddle and let it).
it's all in the design / material of both HT / FS.0 -
Interesting thread. Some pro-HT posts seem to be a bit "chip on the shoulder" ish to me...
Basically, I agree with yeehamcgee.
It is about cost. You can get a fantastic HT for £1500 but the equivalent (ish) FS is probaby £3000 plus. I am generalising and understand the wider arguments that this statement presents of course.
Also, a very good point from Bails about everyone having a valid opinion based on their specific need. Me? I need an FS as I have a bad back and it gets exacerbated by an HT much more than FS. Simple as that.
In addition though, I find my Stumpjumper to be faster than my old HT in every possible sense. Maybe that is just down to me and the way I ride where I ride though.Fortes fortuna adiuvat.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
No, I said those are the only bits I stay seated on, generally. You're making assumptions.bails87 wrote:So fireroads are smoother/as smooth on your HT as on your FS?
Eh? you were the one making assumptions and making complete straw-man arguments with the comment about riding everywhere sitting down. Which is different to sometimes sitting down.
You said:yeehaamcgee wrote:what the hell is all this "comfort" from a full suss malarkey? Do you people ride everywhere siting down?
So the comfort comes from the fact that when you're sitting down, the "saddle/ahrse interface" is less smooth on a HT than an FS. Which you've just said yourself with:yeehaamcgee wrote:
Nobails87 wrote:So fireroads are smoother/as smooth on your HT as on your FS?
I'm glad we agree.0 -
Snelly wrote:Interesting thread. Some pro-HT posts seem to be a bit "chip on the shoulder" ish to me...
Yeehamcgee encourages chips on shoulders...Rock Lobster 853, Trek 1200 and a very old, tired and loved Apollo Javelin.0 -
what?bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:
No, I said those are the only bits I stay seated on, generally. You're making assumptions.bails87 wrote:So fireroads are smoother/as smooth on your HT as on your FS?
Eh? you were the one making assumptions and making complete straw-man arguments with the comment about riding everywhere sitting down. Which is different to sometimes sitting down.
You said:yeehaamcgee wrote:what the hell is all this "comfort" from a full suss malarkey? Do you people ride everywhere siting down?
So the comfort comes from the fact that when you're sitting down, the "saddle/ahrse interface" is less smooth on a HT than an FS. Which you've just said yourself with:yeehaamcgee wrote:
Nobails87 wrote:So fireroads are smoother/as smooth on your HT as on your FS?
I'm glad we agree.
Riding a smooth surface isn't uncomfortable on either, you're twisting my words to suit your point.
Whether I'm on a hardtail OR a full suss, I only generally sit down for the smooth stuff, so I don't see FS as enhancing comfort, since on the rough/techy stuff I'll be standing anyway.
Now you will probably choose to refute this with more nonsense, but I have seen riders who sit down through a rough trail section, and get bucked off as if they were bull riding. They then blame the suspension :roll:
It's not there for comfort, it's there for control, and traction.
Consider a rally car and a Baja buggy, one has considerably more suspension travel than the other, but it's not a more comfortable ride.0 -
yeehaamcgee
On road, it's so smooth that any mountain bike will feel the same, I agree with that point.
But are you genuinely saying that off road, on technical climbs, bumpy fireroads etc, the rear suspension on your FS does absolutely nothing?
And I'm not twisting your words, I used direct, in context quotes.
Edit: This might just be down to different riding styles. I like to sit down and spin smoothly up climbs. That's what I'm good at. You might be good at standing up and stamping on the pedals to climb stuff, which means that you're never really sitting down. In which case, maybe I should have a FS and you should be on a HT all the time :? 0 -
What? on technical climbs, "bumpy" surfaces etc, I will be standing the vast majority of the time, if not all the time.bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee
On road, it's so smooth that any mountain bike will feel the same, I agree with that point.
But are you genuinely saying that off road, on technical climbs, bumpy fireroads etc, the rear suspension on your FS does absolutely nothing?
And I'm not twisting your words, I used direct, in context quotes.
Edit: This might just be down to different riding styles. I like to sit down and spin smoothly up climbs. That's what I'm good at. You might be good at standing up and stamping on the pedals to climb stuff, which means that you're never really sitting down. In which case, maybe I should have a FS and you should be on a HT all the time :?
Do you have some kind of mental deficiency?
Why the hell would a HT "suit" me better? On the full suss I have more traction, since the rear wheel follows the contour of the ground, and the chain tension whilst peddaling actively forces the rear wheel down.
Seriously, is there something wrong with you?0 -
So many different types of terrain, so many different ways of riding them and so many different people with so many different preferences and so many different solutions ...
Surely there can't be a single conclusive generalisation that one type of frame is better than another for all scenarios.
But on the other hand, HTs are much prettier than FSs Canyon XC 8.0 '11
Whyte 19 steel '100 -
Happy Harry wrote:But on the other hand, HTs are much prettier than FSs
There are some pretty looking FS's also.
Trek Fuel... ANY from the Lapierre range. 8)0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
What? on technical climbs, "bumpy" surfaces etc, I will be standing the vast majority of the time, if not all the time.bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee
On road, it's so smooth that any mountain bike will feel the same, I agree with that point.
But are you genuinely saying that off road, on technical climbs, bumpy fireroads etc, the rear suspension on your FS does absolutely nothing?
And I'm not twisting your words, I used direct, in context quotes.
Edit: This might just be down to different riding styles. I like to sit down and spin smoothly up climbs. That's what I'm good at. You might be good at standing up and stamping on the pedals to climb stuff, which means that you're never really sitting down. In which case, maybe I should have a FS and you should be on a HT all the time :?
Do you have some kind of mental deficiency?
Why the hell would a HT "suit" me better? On the full suss I have more traction, since the rear wheel follows the contour of the ground, and the chain tension whilst peddaling actively forces the rear wheel down.
Seriously, is there something wrong with you?
Stop it.
A HT won't bob when you stand up on climbs and mash the pedals. It was just a light-hearted comment, chill out! Go have a HT or somethingon technical climbs, "bumpy" surfaces etc, I will be standing the vast majority of the time, if not all the time.
Right, so that explains it. On technical climbs I tend to sit down most of the time. So I feel the bumps in the ground because I'm on a HT. If I was on a FS I wouldn't feel them so much.
You stand up most of the time, so the difference between a FS and HT is less noticable to you, becuse your backside isn't on the saddle.
I don't see why you have to get so aggressive. :roll:0 -
I'm getting aggressive because you repeatedly twist my words for no reason.
The minimal pedal bob in the full suss is outweighed by the increased traction compared to the HT. There are several climbs that I find easier on the FS than on the HT.
And standing up doesn't necessarily mean "mashing the pedals".0 -
True in the wet but for me the gain in traction is almost negligible in relation to the amount of bobbing, even sitting down.
Again, it depends how you ride and where you ride so no definite answer.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:I'm getting aggressive because you repeatedly twist my words for no reason.
The minimal pedal bob in the full suss is outweighed by the increased traction compared to the HT. There are several climbs that I find easier on the FS than on the HT.
And standing up doesn't necessarily mean "mashing the pedals".
ARGH, it was just a light-hearted, passing comment. I'll get my secretary to write up a retraction and apology if that'll make you happy.
The point I was making, was that when seated a FS will absorb bumps that, on a HT, would be passed on into the base of the riders spine.
Do you agree?0 -
pte1643 wrote:There are some pretty looking FS's also.
Trek Fuel... ANY from the Lapierre range. 8)
No, but seriously. How can something with a Victorian beam engine bolted to it be considered pretty? Unless you're Fred Dibnah
Canyon XC 8.0 '11
Whyte 19 steel '100 -
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Happy Harry wrote:No, but seriously. How can something with a Victorian beam engine bolted to it be considered pretty? Unless you're Fred Dibnah
I will admit to having an interest in mechanical engineering "Solutions".
All right, all right... I can be a bit of a geek...
But I stop short of having tape around my glasses. 0 -
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pte1643 wrote:[All right, all right... I can be a bit of a geek...
But I stop short of having tape around my glasses.
Canyon XC 8.0 '11
Whyte 19 steel '100 -
LOL0
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Yes, but I disagree wholeheartedly that the main reason for riding with suspension is comfort.bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:I'm getting aggressive because you repeatedly twist my words for no reason.
The minimal pedal bob in the full suss is outweighed by the increased traction compared to the HT. There are several climbs that I find easier on the FS than on the HT.
And standing up doesn't necessarily mean "mashing the pedals".
ARGH, it was just a light-hearted, passing comment. I'll get my secretary to write up a retraction and apology if that'll make you happy.
The point I was making, was that when seated a FS will absorb bumps that, on a HT, would be passed on into the base of the riders spine.
Do you agree?0 -
Good!yeehaamcgee wrote:
Yes,bails87 wrote:yeehaamcgee wrote:I'm getting aggressive because you repeatedly twist my words for no reason.
The minimal pedal bob in the full suss is outweighed by the increased traction compared to the HT. There are several climbs that I find easier on the FS than on the HT.
And standing up doesn't necessarily mean "mashing the pedals".
ARGH, it was just a light-hearted, passing comment. I'll get my secretary to write up a retraction and apology if that'll make you happy.
The point I was making, was that when seated a FS will absorb bumps that, on a HT, would be passed on into the base of the riders spine.
Do you agree?
So do I.but I disagree wholeheartedly that the main reason for riding with suspension is comfort.
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