santa cruz bit of a mystery?
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True... and I bet I wont be best pleased if my frame does break just after the two years are up
. 4 years though and I think that I'll probably have had my money's worth, 2 is stretching it a bit when considering how much the thing cost. Hmm, it is maybe something to think about! http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... lurLT2.jpg
http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss9/ ... c611a8.jpg0 -
If they increase their warranty to lifetime, it won't be worth the extra few sales they'd make out of it.
On top of that the few extra sales would be to worst kind of customer...
letter writing, Cheque using, viva la fax machine, american express, must have the space closest to the supermarket door, everyone should get married and have kids, OCD stay up to polish me stainless steel cooker MOFO's we don't want to see riding Santa Cruz!
STAY AWAY, STTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY AAAAWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY0 -
you know what, capoz77 fuck you you ignorant snobbish bastard.0
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capoz77 wrote:If they increase their warranty to lifetime, it won't be worth the extra few sales they'd make out of it.
On top of that the few extra sales would be to worst kind of customer...
letter writing, Cheque using, viva la fax machine, american express, must have the space closest to the supermarket door, everyone should get married and have kids, OCD stay up to polish me stainless steel cooker MOFO's we don't want to see riding Santa Cruz!
STAY AWAY, STTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY AAAAWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
LOL I like been a boutique brand buyer. Boutique brands FTW.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:you know what, capoz77 fark you you ignorant snobbish bastard.
what i'm saying is the type of people that are obsessed in an OCD type way that Santa Cruz should have a lifetime warranty need to get a grip.
Buy another brand if it bothers you. We don't want moaning old b****** clogging up the SC forums!0 -
Rick Draper wrote:capoz77 wrote:If they increase their warranty to lifetime, it won't be worth the extra few sales they'd make out of it.
On top of that the few extra sales would be to worst kind of customer...
letter writing, Cheque using, viva la fax machine, american express, must have the space closest to the supermarket door, everyone should get married and have kids, OCD stay up to polish me stainless steel cooker MOFO's we don't want to see riding Santa Cruz!
STAY AWAY, STTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY AAAAWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
LOL I like been a boutique brand buyer. Boutique brands FTW.
are SC a boutique brand? the warranty never crossed my mind when I bought the Heckler, the rave reviews everywhere and how the bike rode convinced me more than any warranty could.0 -
So if I can choose between a bike from two coompanies, that both suit my riding perfectly, but one has a no questions asked lifetime warranty on frame and bearings, and the other has a two year warranty on the frame - you're saying that there's no way the issue would swing me one way or another?
It's not OCD, it's a case of not being able ot afford a new bike every two years if something goes wrong.
Twat.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:So if I can choose between a bike from two coompanies, that both suit my riding perfectly, but one has a no questions asked lifetime warranty on frame and bearings, and the other has a two year warranty on the frame - you're saying that there's no way the issue would swing me one way or another?
It's not OCD, it's a case of not being able ot afford a new bike every two years if something goes wrong.
fool.
Well buy the bike which gives you the warranty then!!!
its not hard to grasp is it?0 -
doublepost mod remove0
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Wow, angry welshman on the run.
I find the warranties comforting, though I am yet to break anything with a warranty that wasn't through my own fault so I have never got anything from them. Except maybe for my phone which they claimed had water damage and had never been anywhere near water
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exactly. But you come along and accuse people who choose that option of beingletter writing, Cheque using, viva la fax machine, american express, must have the space closest to the supermarket door, everyone should get married and have kids, OCD stay up to polish me stainless steel cooker MOFO's we don't want to see riding Santa Cruz!
I'm sorry if the whole world isn't as "cool" as you. But I'm also glad that repulsive idiots like you are few and far between.0 -
I think a few people are getting a bit touchy here and perhaps missing the point of this topic.
It is NOT standard practice for the manufacturer of any consumer goods to offer a lifetime warranty. Companies need to limit their exposure to potential liability, not leave it open ended - this isn't to try and screw you over, it's just common business sense, there has to be a balance.
When you look at any product, whether it's a bike or a toaster, the warranty period generally given by manufacturers will normally be longer than the average time a latent or patent defect takes to come to light. They will calculate the average failure time due to manufacturing defects and work from that. So if the average fail rate for a frame due to a manufacturing defect is 3 months, a 2 year period should be sufficient for the vast majority of consumers.
So, as has been asked previously, why not just offer a lifetime warranty? Generally, the smaller the company the more difficult it is to provide a lifetime warranty whilst still keeping your product competitively priced. Remember that a lifetime warranty adds on the cost of materials, labour and administration to the cost of every frame.
Companies like Specialized and Marin have much lower production costs (i.e. the materials, labour and administrative costs) therefore the cost to them of replacing 0.2% of frames is actually very low when compared to the additional product appeal provided to customers in the form of a lifetime warranty.
Santa Cruz already presents itself as a "premium" brand, the prices of the frames reflect this. By adding on a costly benefit like a lifetime warranty (bearing in mind that it's production costs are higher), you would make it less competitive with other premium brands, or the company would become less profitable if it didn't roll up the cost of the warranty into the consumer price.
The other way to look at it is from a marketing perspective. Marin spends the extra cash on the lifetime warranty programme because it need to set itself apart for other competitors. The budget to mid-range end of the mtb market is huge (both in terms of volume, competitors and profit) and manufacturers need to find a way of setting themselves apart from their competitors. The high end of the market doesn't have the same issue with a need to provide consumers with "added value", since the value is in the product itself - you are paying for a superior ride quality or expensive materials.
Here is a final thought for you.........when you were shopping for your last bike, did you rule out any brands due to their warranty terms? I would imagine that the cost of providing a lifetime warranty on Santa Cruz's bottom line is far heftier than the cost of losing the occasional customer because they don't offer a lifetime warranty.0 -
[quote="yoohoo999"
Here is a final thought for you.........when you were shopping for your last bike, did you rule out any brands due to their warranty terms? I would imagine that the cost of providing a lifetime warranty on Santa Cruz's bottom line is far heftier than the cost of losing the occasional customer because they don't offer a lifetime warranty.[/quote]
exactly.
yeehaamcgee why not just buy the brand with the longer warranty?0 -
My bike is a SC, two years is fine for me and I'll probably aim to have a new frame / bike in 5. The excellent crash replacement discounts and deals offered to previous buyers of their bikes probably means that I'll by another SC. My current bike is by far the best bike I've ridden out of all the high end bikes I've tried in every way.
And what he says above is spot on 0 -
santa cruz a premium brand you are having a laugh you can get a top of the range spesh or trek for the price of one of their frames! they are just a snob brand for bike billies who just want to be different, you can get a full sus santa cruz bike in the states for £1000, i work in the bike industry and if you saw the massive profit margins the bike shops make on these frames you would have a heart attack, it is all marketing bullshit to keep the prices up as most of the welding quality is far better in the far east than in the states anyway, why do you think cannondale went there after years of built in the usa bullshit, trust me i have been to the far eastern factories and seen the quality first hand, the spesh and trek full sus bike range is the best value for money on the planet! i rest my case.0
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I suppose it depends how long you plan to keep the bike. I got my Zaskar Team and wanted to keep it for several years - I got a 5 year warranty. On that basis I would not go for a frame with a 2 year warranty, no matter who it was.0
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supersonic is spot on this guy has seen and done it all and i totally agree with his point.0
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karen44 wrote:santa cruz a premium brand you are having a laugh you can get a top of the range spesh or trek for the price of one of their frames! they are just a snob brand for bike billies who just want to be different
I ride a santa cruz because I like them - whats wrong with that?
Each to their own as far as i'm concerned, what people ride is their business and none of mine.Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away....
Riding a gorgeous ano orange Turner Burner!
Sponsor the CC2CC at http://www.justgiving.com/cc2cc0 -
karen44 wrote:santa cruz a premium brand you are having a laugh you can get a top of the range spesh or trek for the price of one of their frames! they are just a snob brand for bike billies who just want to be different, you can get a full santa cruz bike in the states for £1000, i work in the bike industry and if you saw the massive profit margins the bike shops make on these frames you would have a heart attack, it is all marketing bullshit to keep the prices up as most of the welding quality is far better in the far east than in the states anyway, why do you think cannondale went there after years of built in the usa bullshit, trust me i have been to the far eastern factories and seen the quality first hand, the spesh and trek full sus bike range is the best value for money on the planet! i rest my case.
This is total twaddle. I'm not a bike bully in any way what so ever. I could afford it and I loved it enough to pay for it. I've never been or never will be a snob over a bike. Get over yourself. Anyway, I bought mine from the states and the frame was actually made in China, assembled and checked in Santa Cruz USA 0 -
karen44 wrote:santa cruz .....rant....rant....swearing...rant.
You've missed the point. It's about marketing and offering consumers what you need to.
Sant Cruz sell lots and lots of frames at a "premium" based solely on product, brand perception and brand reputation, they have no need to bolt on a lifetime warranty to sweeten the deal.
It doesn't matter what the cost or reputation is in other countries, it's completely meaningless.
Seriously, imagine you were in charge of of SC's European business development, and the CEO asked you to drive up Euro sales in the most cost effective way possible.....do you think that offering a lifetime warranty will be cost effective? I think not. An unquantifiable and open ended liability from every single sale, solely to attract a few people who insist on nothing but lifetime warranties on bicycles? They would generate more sales by taking the cost of the warranty and knocking it off the RRP of their frames!0 -
milfredo looks like you have been shafted twice then lol!0
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Surely more important than the actual length of warranty is the wording of what it does and doesn't cover and the manufacturer's record in actually honouring it.
I can't honestly say that I gave a whole load of thought to the warranty when I bought my Turner, which incidentally only has a 2 year warranty, but does appear to have a pretty implecable record when it comes to sorting it.
Ellsworth, on the other hand, when I was buying, provided a lifetime warranty, but it appeared never to actual honour it. Don't know if that's still the case, but they did reduce the warranty to 2 years not long after.
Have a look at the small print on some of the 'lifetime' warranties and check the excemptions.0 -
Well, in my case, the precious "no questions asked" lifetime warranty I had off Marin was definitely a fantastic motivator to get another one.
The old bike is 12 years old, and is still going strong. Last year I got another set of swingarm bearings for it, for free, because of the warranty.
However little or much that warranty cost Marin, it eventually ended up with me spending the best part of 2 grand on another of their bikes. I really did look at several other brands, but the support they've given me in the past weighed me very heavily towards them.
You can't really put a price on after sales care.
As for SC's costs being higher? What exactly makes you think that?
I can see how Giant, or Specialized might benefits from economies of scale, but the smaller players (of which Marin is among the smaller, you seem to forget) should have similar manufacturing costs.
Oh, and Marin don't (I think) offer a lifetime warranty on their low end frames. I think it generally applies to their higher end bikes only.0 -
Yes they are and I think theres a few people on here who benifited from the warrenty even when the bike is 2nd handmonkeypants wrote:ibis are suposidly great with their warrentyI assume this is French petrol - be careful in reverse - the car will retreat rapidly at the least provocation.0 -
yeehaamcgee wrote:
As for SC's costs being higher? What exactly makes you think that?
I can see how Giant, or Specialized might benefits from economies of scale, but the smaller players (of which Marin is among the smaller, you seem to forget) should have similar manufacturing costs.
yeah, sorry. my point directed at economies of scale was really directed as Trek and Spesh etc.
However my other point still stands re Marin - they use lifetime warranty to add value to their product. And clearly it works, you're a diehard Marin fan. It's one of their USPs
Santa Cruz plays more on the "boutique/premium" USP (which it actually isn't!) which works equally well, so they don't bother offering lifetime warranties.0 -
karen44 wrote:santa cruz a premium brand you are having a laugh you can get a top of the range spesh or trek for the price of one of their frames! they are just a snob brand for bike billies who just want to be different, you can get a full sus santa cruz bike in the states for £1000, i work in the bike industry and if you saw the massive profit margins the bike shops make on these frames you would have a heart attack, it is all marketing bullshit to keep the prices up as most of the welding quality is far better in the far east than in the states anyway, why do you think cannondale went there after years of built in the usa bullshit, trust me i have been to the far eastern factories and seen the quality first hand, the spesh and trek full sus bike range is the best value for money on the planet! i rest my case.
My Heckler was built in Taiwan0 -
karen44 wrote:, the spesh and trek full sus bike range is the best value for money on the planet! i rest my case.
so why all the moaning on this thread?
PLEASE get a Trek of Spesh if you love them so much, and leave us SC riders happy with our choice
Next you'll be telling me I shouldn't have bought my Heckler because i'm "under-warrantied"
uh oh...
*runs off* 0
