"You don't pay road tax" knobend

cat_with_no_tail

Got to be honest, if I was in my car, in the same position where the van driver was, I'd have expected the cyclist to slow down a little and let me out (that doesn't mean I'd have just pulled out like the van driver did though). Same applies if it was a car instead of a cyclist approaching.

If I was the cyclist, I would have slowed down to let the van out (and indeed, same applies if I was in my car).

If I was the cyclist, and the van had pulled out on me like that, I would seriously not have gotten as worked up about it as he seemed to, and I most certainly wouldn't have tried going down the inside like that. It's not like the van made him slam the anchors on or anything, a gentle squeeze would have been plenty.

What surprises me is the number of cyclists who kick off about cars not waiting that extra few seconds to pass, but then wont return the courtesy by slowing down a little to let people out of side roads. We don't own the roads any more than they do.

Just so we're clear on this, I'm not saying the actions of the van driver were justified, but had the cyclist not tried to squeeze up the inside, banging on the van on his way past, we'd not be discussing this matter at all because it would have been a non-incident.

Oh, and btw, I commute with a helmet cam every day. I've posted a few few vids of people being cocks, but I do NOT go looking for it.

mroli

I'm laughing about this thread - basically full of people saying roughly the same thing:

1) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
2) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
3) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

Job done?

tailwindhome

mroli wrote:

I'm laughing about this thread - basically full of people saying roughly the same thing:

1) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
2) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
3) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

Job done?

I think you are entirely wrong and a disgrace to all cyclists, I really can'y believe you are posting this tripe

Quite clearly the FACTS are

A) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
C) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

notsoblue

TailWindHome wrote:

mroli wrote:

I'm laughing about this thread - basically full of people saying roughly the same thing:

1) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
2) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
3) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

Job done?

I think you are entirely wrong and a disgrace to all cyclists, I really can'y believe you are posting this tripe

Quite clearly the FACTS are

A) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
C) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

Haha

So true...

Kieran_Burns

TailWindHome wrote:

mroli wrote:

I'm laughing about this thread - basically full of people saying roughly the same thing:

1) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
2) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
3) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

Job done?

I think you are entirely wrong and a disgrace to all cyclists, I really can'y believe you are posting this tripe

Quite clearly the FACTS are

A) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
C) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

For Gods sake - why are you ARGUING about this!

CLEARLY!

A) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist
C) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out

DonDaddyD

Kieran_Burns wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

mroli wrote:

I'm laughing about this thread - basically full of people saying roughly the same thing:

1) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
2) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
3) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

Job done?

I think you are entirely wrong and a disgrace to all cyclists, I really can'y believe you are posting this tripe

Quite clearly the FACTS are

A) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out
Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
C) Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist.

For Gods sake - why are you ARGUING about this!

CLEARLY!

A) Cyclist could have slowed down (possibly) but shouldn't have banged on van
Van driver shouldn't have swerved and thrown thing at cyclist
C) Van driver shouldn't have pulled out

You're wrong:

A) Cyclist should have sped up and (possibly) made a louder bang on the van
Van driver should have swerved and thrown more things at cyclist
C) Van driver was well within his right to pull out

The Rookie

LOL,
So peace has broken out that the van driver acted like an 4r5e after the cyclists banged on the van, the cyclsit was an 4r5e for (quite clearly) making no effort to avoid a confrontation, and in some respects doing soemthing to a lot to infalem it.

Whether or not the van should have pulled out is somewhat mute, the cyclist would not, in my opinion, have had to brake to avoid the van, merely stopped pedaling, so if he had to take no avoiding action (brake) then the van driver was entitled to pull out, had the cyclsit HAD to brake to avoid the van then the van shouldn't have pulled out, but as that went it wouldn't have been the crime of the century (may just have warranted crime of that second!), what then happened was road rage by BOTH parties, the fact the van driver had the more dangerous potential weapon is mute in my mind, they behaved as badly as each other, while the van driver was aggresive, he didn't actually drive into the cyclist which he had ample opportunity to do, so lets remember that, hang him (proverbially) for NOT doing it and next time he may as well figure he may as well!

Simon

Porgy

amnezia wrote:

In two years of commuting on very busy roads, i've never experienced anything like that, but then if that white van had pulled out in front of me i would've applied the brakes and just let it go.

And as the van driver was never pulled up on his poor behaviour he does it again and again and again.

Inaction might seem like neutral behaviour to you but in effect you're condoning and encouraging his poor behaviour. Still, that's your choice I guess. It's a free world.

amnezia

Porgy wrote:

amnezia wrote:

In two years of commuting on very busy roads, i've never experienced anything like that, but then if that white van had pulled out in front of me i would've applied the brakes and just let it go.

And as the van driver was never pulled up on his poor behaviour he does it again and again and again.

Inaction might seem like neutral behaviour to you but in effect you're condoning and encouraging his poor behaviour. Still, that's your choice I guess. It's a free world.

Bollocks - its means i'm looking to get to work without picking a fight with a two ton van.

Porgy

amnezia wrote:

Porgy wrote:

amnezia wrote:

In two years of commuting on very busy roads, i've never experienced anything like that, but then if that white van had pulled out in front of me i would've applied the brakes and just let it go.

And as the van driver was never pulled up on his poor behaviour he does it again and again and again.

Inaction might seem like neutral behaviour to you but in effect you're condoning and encouraging his poor behaviour. Still, that's your choice I guess. It's a free world.

Bollocks - its means i'm looking to get to work without picking a fight with a two ton van.

it's not the two ton van you'd be picking a fight with, but a human being like yourself. And as I said - it's your choice. chill out! 8)

PeteinSQ

This happens to me every single day when I commute home at the same junction less than 2 minutes ride from my office. Unless I want to be getting into aggro every single day I have to ignore it and so that is what I do.

Sadly inside most people there resides an extremely agressive person just waiting to emerge. In this case the cyclist lost his rag first and then the driver did the same - the consequences of the driver losing it have the potential to be far, far worse though.

Avoiding these situations is ALWAYS the best course of action where possible.

PeteinSQ

it's not the two ton van you'd be picking a fight with, but a human being like yourself. And as I said - it's your choice. chill out!

Yes, but he's in a van and could potentially use it as a weapon. The Queensbury rules are hardly going to apply in this situation are they?

Porgy

PeteinSQ wrote:

it's not the two ton van you'd be picking a fight with, but a human being like yourself. And as I said - it's your choice. chill out!

Yes, but he's in a van and could potentially use it as a weapon. The Queensbury rules are hardly going to apply in this situation are they?

I would advise not standing in front of the van while the driver's at the wheel. Standing at the side of the cab works - he can't run you over and you can have a conversation.

PeteinSQ

Four years ago I was cycling along bird cage walk in London and as I got to the junction with Storey's Gate a car came flying out and nearly hit me. The red mist descended and I chased after the car, catching it at the lights into Parliament Square where I told the driver and his mates that they were a bunch of f*cking c**ts etc etc. They then said much the same back to me, spat at me etc and then as we got to the junction with parliament st they hit me with their car.

I hit the road face first and required stitches to my chin; a new front wheel for my bike and a day off work to get over the shock.

So I was probably justified in my anger at these people who had nearly killed me once already but it didn't really do me a great deal of good in the long run.

They did get banned for three months from driving though plus a £400 fine. They were soldiers from the barracks on bird cage walk.

Porgy

PeteinSQ wrote:

Avoiding these situations is ALWAYS the best course of action where possible.

Is that why no-one came to help me when I was knocked over and attacked by a cab driver 4 years ago. The cab driver ran me over and then got out to give me a good kicking. All the cyclists stood and watched. I have since come to the aid of every cyclist I see in trouble. Most aggressors will back down in the face of a united stand. they're bullies and usually cowards who like to intimidate. Call me old fashioned but I hate to see the bullies get their way.

PeteinSQ

You also meet some completely insane cyclists. I remember meeting a guy on Jamaica road who never went anywhere without a screwdriver strapped to his bag strap so that he could stab any overly agressive drivers. If I thought cycling to work in London was like something out of Mad Max I'd take the train personally.

Porgy

PeteinSQ wrote:

Four years ago I was cycling along bird cage walk in London and as I got to the junction with Storey's Gate a car came flying out and nearly hit me. The red mist descended and I chased after the car, catching it at the lights into Parliament Square where I told the driver and his mates that they were a bunch of f*cking c**ts etc etc. They then said much the same back to me, spat at me etc and then as we got to the junction with parliament st they hit me with their car.

I hit the road face first and required stitches to my chin; a new front wheel for my bike and a day off work to get over the shock.

So I was probably justified in my anger at these people who had nearly killed me once already but it didn't really do me a great deal of good in the long run.

They did get banned for three months from driving though plus a £400 fine. They were soldiers from the barracks on bird cage walk.

The best apporach is to stand up to them without losing your temper. Let them lose their's and watch them fall apart in front of you. if you lose your temper then it will escalate.

Porgy

PeteinSQ wrote:

You also meet some completely insane cyclists. I remember meeting a guy on Jamaica road who never went anywhere without a screwdriver strapped to his bag strap so that he could stab any overly agressive drivers. If I thought cycling to work in London was like something out of Mad Max I'd take the train personally.

actually cycling isn't that bad but I had an incident last night - first for ages and unavoidable. When a driver wants a fight badly enough there's not much a cyclist can do to avoid it.

I was lucky that the pair of them were very loud and tried to intimidate but actually in the end didn;t want to fight anyone - but they did threaten to attack the young female lawyer cyclist who came to help me. She was brilliant - and btw if she is reading this (it was in Greenwich last night) - sorry I didn;t thank you but I was a bit distracted! I cycled off afterwards and they followed me. so I doubled back as they passed, they saw me and came back for me - but I was heading eastwards again.

But I've learned that however bad it gets - the train is always worse!

PeteinSQ

Is that why no-one came to help me when I was knocked over and attacked by a cab driver 4 years ago. The cab driver ran me over and then got out to give me a good kicking. All the cyclists stood and watched. I have since come to the aid of every cyclist I see in trouble. Most aggressors will back down in the face of a united stand. they're bullies and usually cowards who like to intimidate. Call me old fashioned but I hate to see the bullies get their way.

Yes that's not the same at all and I think you probably know that.

We're looking at a situation where a cyclist has chosen to escalate a situation that he could have easily avoided. In your example someone has run you over and then attacked you - I would definitely have stepped in to help you.

AndyManc

mosfet wrote:

I can't believe the criticism being poured on the cyclist in this thread, full of apologists for the van driver.

.

You're not the first to say that on this forum and I'm sure you won't be the last.

I've commented on it a number of times, I think I referred to them as "the enemy within" , motorists that happen to own a cycle.

I often find the comments coming from 'cyclists' concerning incidents similar to this one more disturbing and shocking than the behaviour of the driver concerned.

There is a condition amongst a section of the cycling community that believe they don't deserve any better, that there's no point in addressing the issues, or that can't be bothered .... it's a condition that I will never suffer from.


.

Mr Sworld

AndyManc wrote:

mosfet wrote:

I can't believe the criticism being poured on the cyclist in this thread, full of apologists for the van driver.

.

You're not the first to say that on this forum and I'm sure you won't be the last.

I've commented on it a number of times, I think I referred to them as "the enemy within" , motorists that happen to own a cycle.

I often find the comments coming from 'cyclists' concerning incidents similar to this one more disturbing and shocking than the behaviour of the driver concerned.

There is a condition amongst a section of the cycling community that believe they don't deserve any better, that there's no point in addressing the issues, or that can't be bothered .... it's a condition that I will never suffer from.


.

+1

PBo

Mr Sworld wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

mosfet wrote:

I can't believe the criticism being poured on the cyclist in this thread, full of apologists for the van driver.

.

You're not the first to say that on this forum and I'm sure you won't be the last.

I've commented on it a number of times, I think I referred to them as "the enemy within" , motorists that happen to own a cycle.

I often find the comments coming from 'cyclists' concerning incidents similar to this one more disturbing and shocking than the behaviour of the driver concerned.

There is a condition amongst a section of the cycling community that believe they don't deserve any better, that there's no point in addressing the issues, or that can't be bothered .... it's a condition that I will never suffer from.


.

+1

no.

and no again.

don't be so f*cking patronising.

Some motorists are idiots. Some cyclists are idiots.

and some people on these boards have independent critical faculties and are able to assess each situation on its own merits, and decide which one - or neither, or both - was the idiot in any given situation.

just showing indiscriminatory solidarity with all cyclists irrespective of the facts is not helpful.

Personally, I'm a wuss who hates confrontation, and err on the defensive/avoidance side of the coin. I wish I knew the balance between sticking up for myself (and cyclists) against bad driving, whilst managing my desire to avoid a ruckus. But I don't.

However, this IN NO WAY means that I think this is all I deserve.

Kieran_Burns

PBo wrote:

Mr Sworld wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

mosfet wrote:

I can't believe the criticism being poured on the cyclist in this thread, full of apologists for the van driver.

.

You're not the first to say that on this forum and I'm sure you won't be the last.

I've commented on it a number of times, I think I referred to them as "the enemy within" , motorists that happen to own a cycle.

I often find the comments coming from 'cyclists' concerning incidents similar to this one more disturbing and shocking than the behaviour of the driver concerned.

There is a condition amongst a section of the cycling community that believe they don't deserve any better, that there's no point in addressing the issues, or that can't be bothered .... it's a condition that I will never suffer from.


.

+1

no.

and no again.

don't be so f*cking patronising.

Some motorists are idiots. Some cyclists are idiots.

and some people on these boards have independent critical faculties and are able to assess each situation on its own merits, and decide which one - or neither, or both - was the idiot in any given situation.

just showing indiscriminatory solidarity with all cyclists irrespective of the facts is not helpful.

Personally, I'm a wuss who hates confrontation, and err on the defensive/avoidance side of the coin. I wish I knew the balance between sticking up for myself (and cyclists) against bad driving, whilst managing my desire to avoid a ruckus. But I don't.

However, this IN NO WAY means that I think this is all I deserve.

QFT and some.

Cyclist = Good
Motorist = bad

is just plain stupid.

I own a powerful car and love to drive it. What does that make me in this pigeonhole universe? :roll:

rolf_f

AndyManc wrote:

I've commented on it a number of times, I think I referred to them as "the enemy within" , motorists that happen to own a cycle.

That's probably be most of us then. That cross section of the community actually able to see both sides of the argument based on experience.

Ultimately, in this instance, if the same had happened when you were in a car rather than on a bike you would have muttered 'f-wit' under your breath and forgotten about it. On a bike of course, you can get much nearer to the other vehicle allowing you to escalate what was basically an incident of selfish (but not realistically speaking, dangerous) driving into something far worse where the cyclist is extremely vulnerable.

Clever Pun

Sadly I was thinking about this on the way to work today...

for the road rage inclined people:
If someone cuts you up in a car you have a swear utter something about their mums and that's the end of it.. maybe a car horn in more extreme circumstances (might cause the offender to flick hazard lights or offer a wave)

on a bike the car who cuts you up can hear your abuse and can react


I think that's the difference in terms of reaction (being seen/bothered with is another story)

Cyclists also need to remember it's not their divine right not to be slowed down at any time

rjsterry

Quite. The enemy within? Give me strength. By the way AndyManc, it was you who started the "Thread to tell everyone what cycling gear I've bought" wasn't it? How do you think all those shiny cycle components get to the shops for you to buy them, or from Wiggle/CRC/whatever to your door? Fairly sure they aren't delivered by bike.

notsoblue

AndyManc wrote:

I've commented on it a number of times, I think I referred to them as "the enemy within" , motorists that happen to own a cycle.
<snip>
There is a condition amongst a section of the cycling community that believe they don't deserve any better, that there's no point in addressing the issues, or that can't be bothered .... it's a condition that I will never suffer from.
.

I feel tarred with that brush. For the record I don't have a car, my bike is my primary mode of transport. I ride assertively when I need to, confidently taking primary when I can keep up with the traffic (which is most of the time in London) and have always stuck up for myself when I've been on the receiving end of egregious behaviour. But theres no point in overreacting to every minor situation (which is what by my judgement the incident this thread is about was). And just because I don't go ape$hit every time some douche pulls out on me doesn't mean I'm an apologist for dangerous driving.

"The enemy within", sorry mate but thats bullshit :P You seem to be referring to some kind of "bike culture" and are uncomfortable with how disparate and heterogeneous cyclists as a group really are.

The Rookie

AndyManc in the critical mass thread wrote:

I don't give a f*** if I upset any c*** sat in a car.

So don't expect them to give a toss about you back pal, kismet, ying and yang, reap as though shall sow, whatever simile or metaphor you like.......This cyclist clearly shared your opinion and look where it got him.

As for the enemy within, get a life, there again it quite obviously makes us more balanced and understanding than you......

For the record, I drive, I love cars but I love cycling as well, I can do things on either I can't do on the other, and doing both almost certainly makes me a more considerate driver towards cycliss despite you calling me a c***.....

Simon

pastryboy

Rolf F wrote:

Ultimately, in this instance, if the same had happened when you were in a car rather than on a bike you would have muttered 'f-wit' under your breath and forgotten about it.

I can't help but wonder what would have happened had he not been wearing the camera. I think it's a lot easier to be confrontational and make a point when you think your back's covered.

DonDaddyD

What is with this site today!

Clever Pun wrote:

Sadly I was thinking about this on the way to work today...

for the road rage inclined people:
If someone cuts you up in a car you have a swear utter something about their mums and that's the end of it.. maybe a car horn in more extreme circumstances (might cause the offender to flick hazard lights or offer a wave)

on a bike the car who cuts you up can hear your abuse and can react


I think that's the difference in terms of reaction (being seen/bothered with is another story)

Well said. As for me:

My reactions are arguably worse when on a bike because I'm more vulnerable, feel more threatened and therefore more susceptible to aggressive-defensive action.

The other reason I react more so is because I'm technically exercising, my adrenaline and testosterone is pumping making me more aggressive and excitable.

Cyclists also need to remember it's not their divine right not to be slowed down at any time

This a million times over!