"You don't pay road tax" knobend

mybreakfastconsisted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94vzorR8fFM

Not my vid.

Mr Sworld

Wow!
That's the worst one I've seen yet...

jonny_trousers

Surely the police would give that idiot a warning at the very least?

On the plus side, beautiful quality video.

Mr Sworld

Makes you realise how important a helmet cam can be! :shock:

prj45

Mr Sworld wrote:

Makes you realise how important a helmet cam can be! :shock:

Hmmm, again, the rider definitely rode into that situation, it was clear the van was going to pull out in front of him and the rider did have the option of holding back, but chose a confrontation instead (which I don't have too much of a problem with).

Still though, the guy in the mini van, utter t***sser.

And the you don't pay road tax line, does he say that to electric cars that he cuts up too?

amnezia

I do find it interesting that people with helmet cams seem to have more than their fare share of altercations.

In two years of commuting on very busy roads, i've never experienced anything like that, but then if that white van had pulled out in front of me i would've applied the brakes and just let it go.

People who drive like idiots very rarely turn out to be rocket scientists, its not worth arguing with them.

UndercoverElephant

Well it was pretty obvious that the van was pulling out, there was a decent gap too when he started to move. Anyone else think that the rider sped up when the van pulled out? Personally, I just let them pull out, it's not worth the hassle, I certainly wouldn't try to cut down the inside of a still turning van.

zanes

amnezia wrote:

In two years of commuting on very busy roads, i've never experienced anything like that, but then if that white van had pulled out in front of me i would've applied the brakes and just let it go.

This +100000. I've come to the conclusion I must be doing something wrong as in two years across bath I had 1 nasty (ie, me fleeing into the local estate to get away from a van driver) incident, which I at the *very* least catalysed, and a couple of "that was a bit close" from overtaking drivers.

On the credit side I've had drivers let me out many times, a driver who I rear ended pay for half the damage (£150 total) I caused, people in rush hour (yes, bath rush hour) wait until they can get clean across the other side of the road before overtaking and aside from the nasty incident never any problems with me holding primary.

Still, I suppose riding as I would drive (courteously, clearly indicating, holding primary), letting people out of side roads, stopping to ask people broken down if there's anything I can do and generally having a "let most things go" attitude has it's upsides.

Headhuunter

I've had that loads of times - the pulling out in front of me, not so much the agro. I must admit I probably wouldn't have said or done much other than sworn at the driver under my breath...

roger_merriman

Headhuunter wrote:

I've had that loads of times - the pulling out in front of me, not so much the agro. I must admit I probably wouldn't have said or done much other than sworn at the driver under my breath...

quite get that all the time in the car. If your getting wound up, then maybe find another route. the van was clearly looking for any gap. it wasn't a suprise etc.

greg66_tri_v2.0

"Road tax hasn't been around since 1977".

Yeah, I use that every time in circs like these. I find it never fails to bring on contrition and a realisation by the driver of his/her own stupidity.

Or not.

Amnezia's approach (which I follow) means you get to ride another day. Simple.

Of course, if, as the rider did, you decide to give the back of the van a couple of taps (listen carefully at18-19 seconds), you might as well go the whole hog and pull up alongside his window to ask why he gets off watching his Dad fcuk his son. I mean, in for a penny, in for a pound, right?

cee

hmm.

van pulled out...yeah..they do that...not just to bikes, but also to cars...would have been very easy to avoid.

Agree that folks with cameras seem to ride straight into confrontations.......maybe feeling that they will be vindicated by their footage...but the riders aggresive approach to the idiot driver probably did not help.

aldric

The cyclist should have just held back it was obvious what the van was going to do, chasing him to have a go at him was never going to help.

What is completely out of order is the van later swerving to try and hit the cyclist and him throwing a bottle out of the window hitting the cyclist. That is assault.

Can these cams be used as evidence? I would have thought there would have been data protection issues.

alfablue

I don't know if they can be used as evidence, but there are no data protection issues.

aldric

alfablue wrote:

I don't know if they can be used as evidence, but there are no data protection issues.

I didn't really mean data protection, I meant privacy issues. i.e. if you have a camera in a house you are only allowed to film your property and require signs up etc saying you are filming.

These helmet cams seem to film everything and everyone...

I would be great if they could be used in a court of law, but I have my doubts.

davis

The rider didn't predict the van pulling out. From the moment he looks up (around 12 seconds in) you can see the van's going to go. I'd bet that it would have been possible to tell much earlier when filming it because of the better field of view of your eyes.

That doesn't rank as unsafe, even inconsiderate or anything other than completely predictable behaviour. The rider over reacted.

Yeah, the driver's a tool, but the rider provoked it.

Feh.

mybreakfastconsisted

aldric wrote:

alfablue wrote:

I don't know if they can be used as evidence, but there are no data protection issues.

I didn't really mean data protection, I meant privacy issues. i.e. if you have a camera in a house you are only allowed to film your property and require signs up etc saying you are filming.

These helmet cams seem to film everything and everyone...

I would be great if they could be used in a court of law, but I have my doubts.

Public road = no invasion of privacy.

Clever Pun

Ok so the initial shouting could have been ignored


lets not forget the bit where the van is far right and pulls in sharply to bump the cyclist, that will get him in trouble even before throwing something at the cyclist.. The van driver is a massive douche and should get reprimanded

I'm sure it's been reported, the cyclist seemed the pious type... the helmet cam can back up the claim and at least make the van driver think about how stupid he was trying to ram another human being off the road

BSRU

aldric wrote:

alfablue wrote:

I would be great if they could be used in a court of law, but I have my doubts.

According to the copper in charge of my local traffic unit, video footage from helmet cameras will only be used in collision cases and then only if the judge deems it admissible.

aldric

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

aldric wrote:

alfablue wrote:

I don't know if they can be used as evidence, but there are no data protection issues.

I didn't really mean data protection, I meant privacy issues. i.e. if you have a camera in a house you are only allowed to film your property and require signs up etc saying you are filming.

These helmet cams seem to film everything and everyone...

I would be great if they could be used in a court of law, but I have my doubts.

Public road = no invasion of privacy.

Aren't google having serious 'privacy' issues from recording on public roads? They have had to block out registration plates, peoples faces etc etc.

BSRU

aldric wrote:

Aren't google having serious 'privacy' issues from recording on public roads? They have had to block out registration plates, peoples faces etc etc.

Google are subject to the data protection act which only applies to companies not individuals. Legally they did not have to blur faces but did to placate the government.

alfablue

I can't see a problem, if the video is used in evidence, non-relevant people/vehicles can be obliterated, but even then, its not being publicly broadcast. Not really comparable with Google, and lets say your head cam footage showed a murder - you going to wipe it to protect privacy?

mybreakfastconsisted

The Scotch helmet-cam cyclist "Magnatom":



I have been threatened with video removal before. However, I told youtube that I have correspondence with the information commissioner for Scotland stating that my filming and posting is legal (recreation exemption). My video wasn't removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrAoEdXj ... re=related

notsoblue

Its difficult to judge what it was like there on the day, even with helmetcam footage. I'm pretty sure I would have personally just let it slide. I've experienced that kind of scenario quite often. The driver wasn't behaving particularly recklessly....

Greg66 wrote:

Of course, if, as the rider did, you decide to give the back of the van a couple of taps (listen carefully at18-19 seconds), you might as well go the whole hog and pull up alongside his window to ask why he gets off watching his Dad fcuk his son. I mean, in for a penny, in for a pound, right?

....until the cyclist banged on his van. Thats the real story here I think. I get the impression that the cyclist had some nice momentum, working out at a nice speed, blood pumping etc... and while emboldened by having his helmet cam, totally overreacted to the van pulling out. The driver then clearly overreacted (badly, almost criminally) to having his mighty steed interfered with.

I know from experience that banging on the side of a vehicle can really fire people up. Once at Lancaster Gate Roundabout an Addison Lee people carrier changed lanes into me and I had a to bang on it pretty loudly to stop him from knocking me over. He then proceeded to chase me down and come to a stop right in front of me blocking two lanes of traffic. I had already put my bike down ready for him to come out but I guess it was the combination of all the held up traffic beeping at him or the fact that I was bigger than him that made him think it was a better idea to just should more abuse and drive off.

I guess my rambling point is that banging on a car is going to really fire up the occupant, I'd only do it if a) I was otherwise in danger of being knocked off or b) I *really* wanted to pi$$ someone off.

mtb-idle

I agree with the sentiments above, I could see that coming and would have just slowed down.

It's not worth getting upset about everything you see and that initial manouevre wasn't life threatening.

PS I too have a HD helmet cam but use it to post up hopefully interesting movies about cycling rather than a litany of bad-driving.

mybreakfastconsisted

notsoblue wrote:

The driver wasn't behaving particularly recklessly....

Um, using four tons of van as a weapon against a vulnerable road user then throwing a bottle at them is pretty recklesss, I'd say...

notsoblue

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

The driver wasn't behaving particularly recklessly....

Um, using four tons of van as a weapon against a vulnerable road user then throwing a bottle at them is pretty recklesss, I'd say...

notsoblue wrote:

....until the cyclist banged on his van.

bails87

zanes wrote:

Still, I suppose riding as I would drive (courteously, clearly indicating, holding primary), letting people out of side roads, stopping to ask people broken down if there's anything I can do and generally having a "let most things go" attitude has it's upsides.

I can't see the video, but....
Didn't work for me the other day. I was doing about 28/29mph on a 40 limit road, approaching a slight left hand bend, with a minor road joining on the right, which I was going to turn onto.

Made several over the shoulder checks before I even started signalling, then made a clear 'turning right' signal, a few more shoulder checks. Move into primary, just as I change the hand pointing right into a thumbs up to thank the driver behind me for waiting and I move towards the centre line, I hear an engine rev, quickly followed by screeching tyres.

I look back and the car behind me, which was sitting behind throughout the previous 15 seconds worth of shoulder checks and signalling, has now decided to overtake, except I'm now in the way, so she's about 6 inches off by back tyre gesticulating angrily at me.

As I'm ahead of her, I can see round the corner and there's a car coming the other way, so I give the open palmed 'get back/slow down' signal because if she doesn't she's going to have a head on crash.

So she gets back in the normal road position, and leans on her horn for a few seconds. Just in case I didn't know she was there :roll:

She then pulls up next to me as I'm stopped near enough on the centre line waiting to turn right, winds down her window (with a 5 year old child on the passenger seat) and the 'conversation' starts:
Driver(shouts): "F***ing cyclists shouldn't be on the f***ing roads"
Me: "Why not?"
Driver: "Roads are for cars, you don't pay road tax, I pay for the roads"
Me: (not wanting to get into the VED/Road Tax debate in the middle of the road with a queue of traffic forming behind the car) "Actually, I've got a car, I pay as much road tax as you, so by that logic I'm allowed to be here too aren't I because I've paid for it"
Driver: (looking slightly flummoxed, but pointing at the narrow, pedestrian filled pavement with the blue cycle sign above it. Really shouting now!)"Yeah, well I've f***ing well paid for your cycles lanes, so f***ing use them!"
Me: (as she screeches away) "LEARN TO DRIVE YOU STUPID COW"

I may have lost my composure a little by the end :oops:

mroli

I don't know - good comeback by the driver - there is no snappy response to that one!

Any long convuluted answer about how cycle lanes aren't worth the tarmac they're painted on etc etc kind of loses the impetus in a yelled argument somewhat!

DonDaddyD

If the cyclist had tapped on my car I'd be having severe words.

If the van pulled out on me like that I would have had severe words.

However its sometimes hard to judge a cyclists speed - I've been caught out and have caught out people.

Had I been the cyclist I would have tapped the brakes and been prepared to stop as from the video I could tell the van was going to pull out - Hazard awareness.

Clever Pun

bails87 wrote:

zanes wrote:

Still, I suppose riding as I would drive (courteously, clearly indicating, holding primary), letting people out of side roads, stopping to ask people broken down if there's anything I can do and generally having a "let most things go" attitude has it's upsides.

I can't see the video, but....
Didn't work for me the other day. I was doing about 28/29mph on a 40 limit road, approaching a slight left hand bend, with a minor road joining on the right, which I was going to turn onto.

Made several over the shoulder checks before I even started signalling, then made a clear 'turning right' signal, a few more shoulder checks. Move into primary, just as I change the hand pointing right into a thumbs up to thank the driver behind me for waiting and I move towards the centre line, I hear an engine rev, quickly followed by screeching tyres.

I look back and the car behind me, which was sitting behind throughout the previous 15 seconds worth of shoulder checks and signalling, has now decided to overtake, except I'm now in the way, so she's about 6 inches off by back tyre gesticulating angrily at me.

As I'm ahead of her, I can see round the corner and there's a car coming the other way, so I give the open palmed 'get back/slow down' signal because if she doesn't she's going to have a head on crash.

So she gets back in the normal road position, and leans on her horn for a few seconds. Just in case I didn't know she was there :roll:

She then pulls up next to me as I'm stopped near enough on the centre line waiting to turn right, winds down her window (with a 5 year old child on the passenger seat) and the 'conversation' starts:
Driver(shouts): "F***ing cyclists shouldn't be on the f***ing roads"
Me: "Why not?"
Driver: "Roads are for cars, you don't pay road tax, I pay for the roads"
Me: (not wanting to get into the VED/Road Tax debate in the middle of the road with a queue of traffic forming behind the car) "Actually, I've got a car, I pay as much road tax as you, so by that logic I'm allowed to be here too aren't I because I've paid for it"
Driver: (looking slightly flummoxed, but pointing at the narrow, pedestrian filled pavement with the blue cycle sign above it. Really shouting now!)"Yeah, well I've f***ing well paid for your cycles lanes, so f***ing use them!"
Me: (as she screeches away) "LEARN TO DRIVE YOU STUPID COW"

I may have lost my composure a little by the end :oops:

The "you kiss you child with that mouth?" will always make them think a little