Enigma Etape or Echo ? - Any advice welcome please
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Bamford,
I've been swapping e-mails with Jim over the last few days, what a nice guy he is! I've arranged to pop down next Saturday to test a few bikes out.
I explained to him what my physique was like, what I'd be using the bike for etc. and he recommended I go for either the Eclipse or the Echo, so that's what I'll be trying. We discussed custom finishes etc. and essentially the position seems to be that they will do whatever you want to create a truly individual and stunning cycle.
I can't wait for next weekend!
I'll be taking my HD Cam with me, so will get some video footage for you, if that would be useful?0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:I've been swapping e-mails with Jim over the last few days, what a nice guy he is! I've arranged to pop down next Saturday to test a few bikes out.
Yes, everyone who deals with Enigma seem to be very impressed with not only the bikes / frames, but also the customer service and the staff, which is why I'm so interested in getting one of their bikes myself. Hopefully I'll be attending one of their upcoming roadshows.The Mad Rapper wrote:I explained to him what my physique was like, what I'd be using the bike for etc. and he recommended I go for either the Eclipse or the Echo, so that's what I'll be trying.
Yes, I thought I might like the versatility of the Etape at one stage, but I've come round to thinking that the Echo might be better. Apparently the Eclipse is supposed to be an excellent bike, despite being an entry level model.The Mad Rapper wrote:I'll be taking my HD Cam with me, so will get some video footage for you, if that would be useful?
I would be extremely grateful if you could upload that to somewhere like YouTube, thanks.
I've already suggested that Enigma do some "walk around" videos in the style of the ones that Lynskey do (see link below).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=MyvycdQ2EQo
Apparently, the current issue of Cycling Plus magazine includes a group test of titanium bikes including the Enigma Esprit, a Lynskey, a Van Nicholas, a Qoroz and a Sabbath and the Enigma scored 10 out of 10, so presumably it came top. I'm going to try to get hold of a copy of that magazine this weekend.
Don't forget that Enigma are due to start supplying proper headtube badges on their bikes very soon, together with other cosmetic changes, so make sure you get a frame with those on.0 -
Bamford wrote:Yes, I thought I might like the versatility of the Etape at one stage, but I've come round to thinking that the Echo might be better. Apparently the Eclipse is supposed to be an excellent bike, despite being an entry level model.
The Etape is a Winter bike for me, not really in the same class as the Eclipse or Echo. According to Jim, the Eclipse and Echo are identical in every respect, with the exception of curved seat stays. Apparently, this improves the ride quality. I'm intent on spanking them both, so I'll let you know!
Where did you learn about the badges and cosmetic changes? If you look for images of the Elite, you'll see they already have a proper headset badge, which Jim has promised me I can have, polished, on mine.0 -
I'd like a spin on an espirit.0
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Apparently, the current issue of Cycling Plus magazine includes a group test of titanium bikes including the Enigma Esprit, a Lynskey, a Van Nicholas, a Qoroz and a Sabbath and the Enigma scored 10 out of 10, so presumably it came top.
So did the Lynskey Sportive.0 -
Yes it does. It actually equalled with the Lynskey for top spot with the VN getting 9, the Qoroz 9, and the Sabbath 9. Very close contest!!keef66 wrote:Apparently, the current issue of Cycling Plus magazine includes a group test of titanium bikes including the Enigma Esprit, a Lynskey, a Van Nicholas, a Qoroz and a Sabbath and the Enigma scored 10 out of 10, so presumably it came top.
So did the Lynskey Sportive.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:Where did you learn about the badges and cosmetic changes? If you look for images of the Elite, you'll see they already have a proper headset badge, which Jim has promised me I can have, polished, on mine.
Jim mentioned the new headtube badges and forthcoming cosmetic changes within the Enigma forum.
It's not before time though.
Is that definitely a proper headset badge shown within the images of the Elite and not the paintwork or a sticker ?0 -
Bamford wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:Where did you learn about the badges and cosmetic changes? If you look for images of the Elite, you'll see they already have a proper headset badge, which Jim has promised me I can have, polished, on mine.
Jim mentioned the new headtube badges and forthcoming cosmetic changes within the Enigma forum.
It's not before time though.
Is that definitely a proper headset badge shown within the images of the Elite and not the paintwork or a sticker ?
Yes,
It's a proper, polished, badge, applied to the frame then the frame is painted. The badge seems to morph out of the headtube - looks amazing!
In fact scroll through the images on their site for the Extensor and you'll see it.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:It's a proper, polished, badge, applied to the frame then the frame is painted. The badge seems to morph out of the headtube - looks amazing!
Sounds fantastic.0 -
i remember seeing photo's of some of the earlier frame sets and instead of a headset badge, the loge was machined into the head tube. now that did look good.
i have to admit, one of the aesthetic things that appeal to me about my effusion frame (and it is the same on the echo) is the shape of the machined head tube with integrated head set. i think it looks a whole lot neater than a straight tube with headset cups stuck on either end like on the eclipse.regards,
dbb0 -
Geez guys it's only a badge. You get excited so easily ..... just details dudes.0
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FAO: Bamford
I went to Enigma this morning as promised. I met Jim & Mark, both really nice guys. I took an Echo for a spin for 4 - 5 miles, very nice, but it had a cheap Campag GS (Veloce) on it with very uncomfortable hoods - the Echo frame and the carbon fork are lovely. The bike weighs nothing, it's incredible. So fast, brilliant uphill, no real frame flex and bumps nicely damped. The frame I rode was unpainted, brushed Ti - it may appeal to some, but not to me.
Mark gave me a bike fit, which was quite funny. He took all my measurements and when measuring my shoulders said "You're a broad lad!" He suggested 46cm bars, which are apparently the widest they have.
Jim then sent me out again on an Athena equipped Extensor - the red one they have on their site. Very nice GS! The frame was beautifully (and I don't use that word lightly) painted in red, with a pearlescent white around the mirror polished enigma logo on the seat tube and down stay. I felt completely unworthy to be riding such a beautiful bike TBH. There was a difference between the steel and Ti frames, but it's difficult for me, as a novice, to articulate that. I did find the Echo a more willing climber, but there's not a huge amount in it. The difference in weight between the Extensor and Echo was 200 grams!
When I got back from that I discussed the purchase of a painted Echo with Jim. He quoted for a complete bike with 2011 Athena GS, painted frame and stem and Fizik Aliante saddle - £2740
I decided to discuss this with my wife who almost went into premature labour (she's expecting our first on the 27th!), as I'd previously discussed buying the finished frame and forks and then sourcing the GS and other parts from the net, and obviously there was a huge difference in price.
So, I left without placing an order, but I will as soon as my wife settles down - the best part of £3K for a cycle is obviously causing her some concern, but it'll be fine
Any way, just to confirm - the Echo is amazing, but get it painted - the quality of the finish looks incredible. I just need to decide whether I can build the bike with the parts I want cheaper than Enigma can - if so, I'll buy the frame and forks from them and have it built elsewhere.0 -
Hi TMR,
Thank you for a very informative and helpful post.
It's very interesting that like me, you were very impressed by the pictures of the "bare titanium" frames within the image galleries that I posted within this thread a while back, but now having seen them up close, you now prefer a painted frame.
I guess that just demonstrates the importance of seeing the bikes / frames before purchasing them.
I think it's great that everyone who meets the Enigma team comes away very impressed which must speak volumes about the company.
Many thanks again for a brilliant post and I'd like to wish you all the best with the new baby.0 -
Oh I know! That is such a gorgeous bike, my next bike will be an Extensor, I was that impressed with it. S funny, cos when i tested it had Record on it, oh well but that frame, wow!!The Mad Rapper wrote:FAO: Bamford
I went to Enigma this morning as promised. I met Jim & Mark, both really nice guys. I took an Echo for a spin for 4 - 5 miles, very nice, but it had a cheap Campag GS (Veloce) on it with very uncomfortable hoods - the Echo frame and the carbon fork are lovely. The bike weighs nothing, it's incredible. So fast, brilliant uphill, no real frame flex and bumps nicely damped. The frame I rode was unpainted, brushed Ti - it may appeal to some, but not to me.
Mark gave me a bike fit, which was quite funny. He took all my measurements and when measuring my shoulders said "You're a broad lad!" He suggested 46cm bars, which are apparently the widest they have.
Jim then sent me out again on an Athena equipped Extensor - the red one they have on their site. Very nice GS! The frame was beautifully (and I don't use that word lightly) painted in red, with a pearlescent white around the mirror polished enigma logo on the seat tube and down stay. I felt completely unworthy to be riding such a beautiful bike TBH. There was a difference between the steel and Ti frames, but it's difficult for me, as a novice, to articulate that. I did find the Echo a more willing climber, but there's not a huge amount in it. The difference in weight between the Extensor and Echo was 200 grams!
When I got back from that I discussed the purchase of a painted Echo with Jim. He quoted for a complete bike with 2011 Athena GS, painted frame and stem and Fizik Aliante saddle - £2740
I decided to discuss this with my wife who almost went into premature labour (she's expecting our first on the 27th!), as I'd previously discussed buying the finished frame and forks and then sourcing the GS and other parts from the net, and obviously there was a huge difference in price.
So, I left without placing an order, but I will as soon as my wife settles down - the best part of £3K for a cycle is obviously causing her some concern, but it'll be fine
Any way, just to confirm - the Echo is amazing, but get it painted - the quality of the finish looks incredible. I just need to decide whether I can build the bike with the parts I want cheaper than Enigma can - if so, I'll buy the frame and forks from them and have it built elsewhere.0 -
giant mancp wrote:Oh I know! That is such a gorgeous bike, my next bike will be an Extensor, I was that impressed with it. S funny, cos when i tested it had Record on it, oh well but that frame, wow!!
Definitely Athena, but looked great and worked beautifully. The saddle was a Selle SLR, which Jim had told me was like sitting on a plank, but which I found very comfortable! It is a really nice bike 0 -
Bamford wrote:Many thanks again for a brilliant post and I'd like to wish you all the best with the new baby.
Thanks
Jim did mention that he's looking forward to meeting you when they hold a show up North! He also showed me the frame and forks for a top secret project which he is apparently undecided about - it looked amazing though!0 -
I rode the XCR Extensor when I went down to choose my bike. It was certainly THE most incredible frame I have ever ridden, and such a sporty and lively feeling machine. The one I rode was a blue one with Record IIRC but sadly my pockets werent deep enough to bring it home that day... I suspect my next bike will be that one though in a few years.
I came home with a black Ethos and must say I love it to bits. Its done 2000 miles so far this year and has been a joy. It has Centaur (edit) on it and I really cant fault it as a great all-round bike. The ti frames impressed me less on a test ride but I do much prefer the unpainted finish on them personally. Again, I had a superb experience meeting Jim, Mark and the team and wouldnt hesitate to recommend them.
Good luck with it.Your Past is Not Your Potential...0 -
Bigpikle wrote:I rode the XCR Extensor when I went down to choose my bike. It was certainly THE most incredible frame I have ever ridden, and such a sporty and lively feeling machine. The one I rode was a blue one with Record IIRC but sadly my pockets werent deep enough to bring it home that day... I suspect my next bike will be that one though in a few years.
I came home with a black Ethos and must say I love it to bits. Its done 2000 miles so far this year and has been a joy. It has Chorus on it and I really cant fault it as a great all-round bike. The ti frames impressed me less on a test ride but I do much prefer the unpainted finish on them personally. Again, I had a superb experience meeting Jim, Mark and the team and wouldnt hesitate to recommend them.
Good luck with it.
Post a photo then! 0 -
giant mancp wrote:Geez guys it's only a badge. You get excited so easily ..... just details dudes.
Yes but the devil's in the details. Little things like that make a big difference in a marketplace where a lot of frames look and handle the same.Expertly coached by http://www.vitessecyclecoaching.co.uk/
http://vineristi.wordpress.com - the blog for Viner owners and lovers!0 -
The most important thing is the frame, not the bloody badge!
But no, you're right, and when i order my enigma, I will be fussy about the badge too.0 -
Your Past is Not Your Potential...0
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I sort of wish I hadn't stumbled across this thread, got to visit a mate near Rye in the next few weeks - I feel a quick diversion coming on.....2011 Bianchi D2 Cavaria in celeste (of course!)
2011 Enigma Echo 57cm in naked Ti
2009 Orange G2 19" in, erm orange0 -
Just stumbled onto this post-very interesting to read through it-looking for a Titanium frame bike at the moment and very tempted to go to Enigma for a bike fit and to try their bikes.
Only tried a Sabbath Silk Road Alp at the moment, liked it but feel its maybe a touch to aggressive a geometry for me.
Live in Cumbria so a trip to eastbourne is not a simple undertaking but if it results in the right bike it will be worth it.0 -
Does anyone know why Enigma are not updating their website and displaying their new models as they normally do each year ?
Apparently they announced their new website on their Facebook page back in October, but then it never changed.0 -
Don't know why Bamford, but can't wait for the Etape XCr ...... got a feeling it's to do with their design company slowing things in which case a change of design company would be in order if it was me, as I told them on their forum .....0
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Bamford wrote:Does anyone know why Enigma are not updating their website and displaying their new models as they normally do each year ?
Apparently they announced their new website on their Facebook page back in October, but then it never changed.
Aah, you are alive! Did you buy one in the end? If not, what did you get?
I didn't get one, after much deliberation. I'm getting a Ribble Winter Trainer now, and then a carbon bike in May - at the moment a 2011 Cannondale Synapse Ultegra.0 -
No, I didn't and the reason I didn't is because Enigma advertised that they were having a roadshow in Birmingham which was an ideal opportunity for me to see their products before making a purchase.
Then, right at the last minute, they called off both of their roadshows without any reason and coupled with the fact that they haven't updated their website with the 2011 models as promised on their Facebook page last October, my perception of Enigma has gone down somewhat.0 -
Bamford wrote:No, I didn't and the reason I didn't is because Enigma advertised that they were having a roadshow in Birmingham which was an ideal opportunity for me to see their products before making a purchase.
Then, right at the last minute, they called off both of their roadshows without any reason and coupled with the fact that they haven't updated their website with the 2011 models as promised on their Facebook page last October, my perception of Enigma has gone down somewhat.
To be fair, Enigma is not the sort of company which releases a new range each year. The bikes are what they are. This is by no means a pop at you, but I wouldn't let the lack of a new web site put me off a purchase. You could always e-mail Jim or Mark and ask them?
In fact, with the amount of time you've been mulling this over, why haven't you gone down there to see them in Brighton? You could make a weekend of it, take your other half or whatever, and try out the frames you like.0
