Enigma Etape or Echo ? - Any advice welcome please

135

Comments

  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    dbb wrote:
    believe it or not - it is 'red' cinelli jelly.

    i never thought of it as looking brown - now i'll have to change it. :evil:
    Oh sorry, perhaps it's just the light on your phone piccies ...
  • dbb
    dbb Posts: 323
    these are the bars - had them for a few years now. very comfortable especially on the tops.

    http://www.aspirevelotech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PCHBAR&Category_Code=PC_BARS

    i paid for the grommets, so i may as well use them... :roll:
    regards,
    dbb
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    dbb wrote:
    sorry about the size of the photo - i thought it would be smaller from my phone!

    Very nice looking bike there dbb.
  • C_Sharp
    C_Sharp Posts: 20
    Just noticed that Enigma have a big sale on at the moment and they have reduced the prices on their Echo and Esprit frames by quite a lot.
  • DubaiNeil
    DubaiNeil Posts: 246
    they certainly have, and (of course) the sale started two weeks after I bought mine!

    :evil:

    Neil
  • C_Sharp
    C_Sharp Posts: 20
    I wonder why they have reduced the prices by so much ?
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    Bloodaxe wrote:
    Bamford

    Hope this is some help to you. Let me know if I can help you with anything else.

    Hi Bloodaxe,

    Thanks for replying to my post earlier.

    I'm kind of leaning towards the Echo now, as it seems more sportier.

    If I get fitter, I'd like to get into sportives and I consider the Echo to be more of a true road bike than the Etape.

    Could you please tell me if the more aggressive riding position of the Echo makes it significantly less comfortable to ride than the Etape ? Does the riding position give you backache ?

    Also, what do people mean when they describe the Echo as "twitchy" ? Does that mean it's in any way more dangerous than the Etape or more difficult to control ?

    I really value your feedback on this, with you having both models, and I'm extremely grateful for your contribution so far.

    Sorry for the seemingly dumb questions.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Bamford are you going to the Enigma open day on Sat? Test rides a plenty hopefully!
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    giant mancp wrote:
    Bamford are you going to the Enigma open day on Sat? Test rides a plenty hopefully!

    Hi giant mancp,

    I would dearly love to go to the Enigma open day, but due to work commitments and the fact that it's almost a 400 mile round trip, I won't be able to attend unfortunately.

    This is why I'm having to rely on advice from you guys, because there are no Enigma dealers where I can go and see the bikes. Actually, I've never even seen a titanium bike before, let alone an Enigma. This must be a huge problem for Enigma. They did at least used to have roadshows, but they don't even seem to do those anymore. It really is frustrating and disappointing.
  • C_Sharp
    C_Sharp Posts: 20
    I read somewhere that the Echo is "twitchy" compared with the Etape, but I can't imagine that it would be unstable in any way.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Bamford wrote:
    giant mancp wrote:
    Bamford are you going to the Enigma open day on Sat? Test rides a plenty hopefully!

    Hi giant mancp,

    I would dearly love to go to the Enigma open day, but due to work commitments and the fact that it's almost a 400 mile round trip, I won't be able to attend unfortunately.

    This is why I'm having to rely on advice from you guys, because there are no Enigma dealers where I can go and see the bikes. Actually, I've never even seen a titanium bike before, let alone an Enigma. This must be a huge problem for Enigma. They did at least used to have roadshows, but they don't even seem to do those anymore. It really is frustrating and disappointing.
    OK well if I can help in any way ie pictures or brochures or any other info from Enigma, pm me and I can mail you some stuff if that's what you want.
  • dbb
    dbb Posts: 323
    twitchy just means that it is a fast and responsive. it would feel like that it wants to be ridden fast
    regards,
    dbb
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    dbb wrote:
    twitchy just means that it is a fast and responsive. it would feel like that it wants to be ridden fast

    Thanks dbb. I assumed that twitchy meant that the bike was somehow more difficult to control and less stable somehow.
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    giant mancp wrote:
    OK well if I can help in any way ie pictures or brochures or any other info from Enigma, pm me and I can mail you some stuff if that's what you want.

    Hi giant mancp,

    Thanks, that really is good of you and I really appreciate your help and I may well take you up on that kind offer.
  • C_Sharp
    C_Sharp Posts: 20
    Obviously not everyone can get down to Eastbourne to have a test ride before buying an Enigma and dealers stocking the full range are practically non existent.

    I think Wiggle have got the best solution to this problem.

    They let you test ride one of their bikes for 30 days, after which, if you don't like it, they will take it back free of charge.

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/30testride

    I think Enigma ought to consider something like that.
  • C_Sharp
    C_Sharp Posts: 20
    giant mancp wrote:
    Bamford are you going to the Enigma open day on Sat? Test rides a plenty hopefully!

    Hi Giant Mancp

    Just wondered if you went to the Enigma Ipen Day yesterday and how it went.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Yes I did go C_Sharp. I spent a good four hours there, tested three bikes, and enjoyed their hospitality. Mark done two live framebuilding shows, and very brilliant it was though. Mark is an absolute master you can see that, taking us through the various procedures of fillet brazing, and other methods. Incredibly talented have to say. He was a bit nervous, but pulled it off very well.

    I tested an Etape which to me makes an ideal winter bike, so comfortable, a 6/4 titanium and a steel Extensor XCR. http://www.enigmabikes.com/extensor.html Oh my god what a bike this was, superb handling and soooooo light. Gorgeous. And yes i will be putting an order their way. Didn't have time to test the Esprit or Echo.

    Very good British company, lovely people and with customer service being top priority, I can't think of a better bike outfit to do business with. Highly recommended. Fab day.

    Bamford - you didn't come back to me and I had to leave at Friday pm, sorry mate
  • C_Sharp
    C_Sharp Posts: 20
    Thanks gmcp,

    Sounds like you had a great day out at Enigma HQ.
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    giant mancp wrote:
    Bamford - you didn't come back to me and I had to leave at Friday pm, sorry mate

    No worries gmcp. It was extremely kind of you to offer to send me additional brochures and photos, but with respect, it's no substitute for being able to actually see an Enigma "in the flesh".

    There's absolutely no way that I can get down to Eastbourne for the foreseeable future and the dealer option is clearly a non starter as they are firstly very few and far between and they very rarely ever seem to have a frame in stock, let alone two or three models in my size that I could test ride.

    No, I think the only option is just to do what others have done on here and simply take the leap of faith and just order one over the phone. I can't be the only potential Enigma customer to have this problem, or do they mostly all live on the south coast ?

    Anyway, it sounds like you had a great day out at the open day and I'm glad that you enjoyed it and thanks again for your offer of help and advice.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Bamford wrote:
    giant mancp wrote:
    Bamford - you didn't come back to me and I had to leave at Friday pm, sorry mate

    No worries gmcp. It was extremely kind of you to offer to send me additional brochures and photos, but with respect, it's no substitute for being able to actually see an Enigma "in the flesh".

    There's absolutely no way that I can get down to Eastbourne for the foreseeable future and the dealer option is clearly a non starter as they are firstly very few and far between and they very rarely ever seem to have a frame in stock, let alone two or three models in my size that I could test ride.

    No, I think the only option is just to do what others have done on here and simply take the leap of faith and just order one over the phone. I can't be the only potential Enigma customer to have this problem, or do they mostly all live on the south coast ?

    Anyway, it sounds like you had a great day out at the open day and I'm glad that you enjoyed it and thanks again for your offer of help and advice.
    No I know it's no substitute of course, but well ok. FWIW the Etape is a fine frame, extremely solid and buttery smooth. Excellent build quality. I would have no hesitation for an excellent winter bike than to go for an Etape.
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    giant mancp wrote:
    No I know it's no substitute of course, but well ok. FWIW the Etape is a fine frame, extremely solid and buttery smooth. Excellent build quality. I would have no hesitation for an excellent winter bike than to go for an Etape.

    Sorry gmcp, that made it sound like I was really ungrateful for your offer and that is not the case at all, I really appreciate how you're trying to help me in this predicament.

    I know that both the Echo and Etape are fine bikes, but I can't decide whether to go for the sportier Echo which sounds like a lot more fun to ride or the less sporty but more versatile Etape.

    The Echo looks more like a true road bike to me which is what attracts me to that model, whereas the Etape is obviously more versatile, although I guess I could probably fit a rack and mudguards like the following to the Echo.

    http://www.crudproducts.com/products/ro ... roadracer_

    http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/77 ... -rack.html

    I think I'm correct in saying that the Etape is by far the best selling of Enigma's models.

    Oh, heart says Echo, mind says Etape :?
  • dbb
    dbb Posts: 323
    go with your heart.
    you won't regret it :twisted:
    regards,
    dbb
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Well if it helps I tested the Etape first, and I was impressed. This was my first ride on any ti bike you know, and the ride quality was wonderful. Felt like 100 miles on it would have easily been possible and not feeling beat up by it, you know?

    Then I tested the steel (first time on any steel bike as well btw) Extensor XCR, and omg what an extremely light, responsive ride. Wonderful summer bike.

    Then lastly I tested the Echo (or was it an Excel?) in 6/4 form, and yes it was lighter than the Etape of course, and lighter than the conventional 3/2.5 ti Echo, but I wasn't blown away I have to say. So I wouldn't in all honesty buy one, but I would easily have an Etape and an Extensor.

    But it would take you a demo ride to decide cos we all have different ideas of what a bike should feel like. Always being used to carbon and aluminium made bikes, the ti and steel were very refreshing ways, to me, of how a bike should be constructed.
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    giant mancp wrote:
    Then lastly I tested the Echo (or was it an Excel?) in 6/4 form, and yes it was lighter than the Etape of course, and lighter than the conventional 3/2.5 ti Echo, but I wasn't blown away I have to say. So I wouldn't in all honesty buy one, but I would easily have an Etape and an Extensor.

    Being made from 6/4 titanium, the Excel is supposed to be 5% stiffer than the Echo, so maybe you might have enjoyed the Echo as much as you enjoyed the Etape, with them both being made from 3Al-2.5V titanium, had you tested one.

    The Excel is out of my price range and in any case, I don't think I'd like a frame that stiff, I think I'd prefer the extra compliance that 3Al-2.5V offers, but again, having never ridden either, this is all purely academic to me.

    Very interesting though, thank you again.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Bamford, what did you do in the end? Did you buy an Enigma, or go for something else?
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Bamford, what did you do in the end? Did you buy an Enigma, or go for something else?

    Hi TMR,

    No, still not got one yet, as I've not had a chance to make the 400+ mile round trip down to Enigma HQ.

    There was a suggestion that Enigma may be holding a roadshow in the midlands, but that doesn't seem to happeneing any more.

    Are you looking to buy an Enigma at the moment ?
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Bamford wrote:
    Are you looking to buy an Enigma at the moment ?

    I am mate, I've just sent them an e-mail to enquire about making a visit and trying a few models out. I live 35 miles NW of London though, so it's a bit easier for me! ;)
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Bamford wrote:
    Are you looking to buy an Enigma at the moment ?

    I am mate, I've just sent them an e-mail to enquire about making a visit and trying a few models out. I live 35 miles NW of London though, so it's a bit easier for me! ;)

    Alright for some. I'd love to know what percentage of Enigma customers live in the south :D

    Please let us know how you get on. I'd really appreciate that.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Bamford wrote:
    Alright for some. I'd love to know what percentage of Enigma customers live in the south :D

    It's sheer chance! I'm from Northumberland originally, just down here because of my job in the City.
    Please let us know how you get on. I'd really appreciate that.

    I will do :)
  • Bamford
    Bamford Posts: 65
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    Bamford wrote:
    Alright for some. I'd love to know what percentage of Enigma customers live in the south :D

    It's sheer chance! I'm from Northumberland originally, just down here because of my job in the City.
    Please let us know how you get on. I'd really appreciate that.

    I will do :)

    Looks like Enigma will be holding a couple of roadshows in the first week of November, so that'll hopefully be my opportuninty to see the bikes.

    Also, Enigma will soon be fitting a proper head tube badge to their bikes instead of the standard orange stickers.

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