Traffic Chaos Trafalger Square - Wednesday Mornings

markshaw77

lost_in_thought wrote:

gordon861 wrote:

Also on the 19th June at noon we have what might be massive (or might be dead but hope not), we are planning to get as many bikes as possible to meet at the Ace Cafe and then head up the A40 to the M25, do a full lap clockwise (at about 50mph) and then back to the Ace Cafe. After the event I think the goal is to collect the L-platers and then all hit Westminster at once. The last massed rides to Westminster attracted 4k bikes and if we get that onto the M25 it's going to make an impact. So the mess on the M25 should be clear by 5pm but at least you now know it's happening.

OK, the Westminster bit I can understand, but why on earth you feel the need to intentionally snarl up one of the busiest stretches of motorway in the UK, which is used as much by people from all over the country as it is by Londoners, is beyond me. What about the poor souls trying to get to the UK's busiest airport for a flight?

You've definitely lost my support. What a load of inconsiderate nonsense... :evil:

+1 to that - there are better ways to garner support for your cause and that ain't one of them.

gordon861

The M25 event is planned as a show of strength and a parade, we don't think we are going to bring the M25 to a halt and that isn't the plan. M25 will be larger bikes only and no scooters so we should be able to keep the 50mph target. We will be pulling off at each of the services so any traffic that does build up will have a chance to pass us.

There will be police there and they wouldn't let us cease up the M25, up to now we have had a very good relationship with the police and we have complied with everything they have asked of us. We aren't going to spoil this relationship now.

Just be pleased you weren't in France when they had there last day of action, they had about 40k bikes on the road and bought parts of France to a standstill. They were protesting about the government making 'filtering' illegal and it was a weekend, I think they have another one planned on the 18th June.

I think all we will do is cause cars to drive at 50mph around the M25 instead of 80mph, but there may be a lot of us.

gordon861

Also, how are our events any different to the Critical Mass events? (esp the M25 one)

lost_in_thought

You really think going at 50mph isn't going to snarl up the M25?

Even if you all ride in single file in the slow lane at that speed, you're effectively causing a merge of lorries into the middle lane. They go at 60mph at best, thereby causing a merge of everything else into one lane. And that's the best case.

Oh yeah.

It'll be just fine.

:evil: :x :roll:

EDIT: try searching 'critical mass' on the forum to get a feel for opinion.

Aidy

The M25 is a fragile beast at best, it really doesn't take a genius to see that a whole bunch of people being muppets on it isn't going to do it the world of favours.

gordon861

Just a quick bump to remind people that the M25 and surrounding areas may be a little busy(probably an understatement) tomorrow between noon and 5pm and then we are off to Westminster again so that will also be busy tomorrow from 5pm.

If the weather holds it should be a good event.

Edit : BTW I was wrong the speed has been updated to a planned 40mph not 50mph, so yes it will be a bugger to pass us, assuming a lane is left free.

lost_in_thought

You bunch of barstewards.

:evil:

gordon861

lost_in_thought wrote:

You bunch of barstewards.

:evil:

LOL, no the evil way would have been to not warn anyone that we were going to do it.

lost_in_thought

gordon861 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

You bunch of barstewards.

:evil:

LOL, no the evil way would have been to not warn anyone that we were going to do it.

Yeah, 'cause people with flights to catch can just reschedule, oh and everyone reads these forums... strangely I can't seem to find it on any news sites...

Oh and the 'protest', or, what was it you called it, 'show of strength' itself is not remotely nasty. Not even a tiny little bit. :roll:

Headhuunter

I'm kind of on the fence on this one. I can see that all motorised transport pollutes and should potentially be discouraged, however motorbikes and mopeds take up less space on the roads and reduce congestion. However as admitted, they also block and use ASL and cycle lanes.

I would also be interested to know in reality how polluting a large, high cc motorbike transporting a single rider is compared to a small car transporting 2 or more people. I would have thought that per person, the motorbike would be the bigger polluter. In which case, why should motorbikes have some kind of special protection?

Or better still, can someone - the Mayor, London Assembly etc etc, perhaps some kind of positive encouragement for reducing pollution and congestion, perhaps by offering a reduction in congestion charge to drivers of cars with more than 1 occupant? Most of the cars I pass on my commute have a single occupant. Couldn't some of these people be encouraged to set up car share schemes?

tgotb

gordon861 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

You bunch of barstewards.

:evil:

LOL, no the evil way would have been to not warn anyone that we were going to do it.

So you think that, by making a vague attempt to warn people, you're no longer going to inconvenience them? Or maybe you just don't care about other people?

I'm all for allowing legal protest, but screwing up other people, almost all of whom have nothing to do with your little complaint, is plain selfish.

I used not to be that bothered whether or not motorcyclists have to pay for parking in London. Now I hope that you do get charged, you'll deserve it. Maybe some of you will be forced to switch to bicycles; it'll help you burn off your oversized bellies.....

As an aside, the reason you have a good relationship with the police will be that you act within the letter of the law; the fact that your protests are technically legal, does not justify the means, or imply any endorsement by the police or anyone else.

Rant over...

DonDaddyD

I agree with LiT's

What is this protest all about anyway?

I thought this was about being against being charged to pay to park where normally motorcycles are exempt? Blocking up the M25, are you against motorways now?

Seriously, utter nonsense! Why would you actively congest a motorway and drive at 40mph while on it. It's not safe for you or those around you and there will be those who will try to overtake and will try to do so, rightly or wrongly, at speed.

I hate people who protest for the sake of protesting. Sure you may have a cause, but make the protest relevant! When civil rights sit-ins happened they sat in places that wouldn't allow them to, they were directly aimed at the people they were protesting against. When the brixton riots happened it started outside the police station which was where the protests we aimed.

You guys are just planning on making things difficult for innocent bystanders for the sake of it. I'm sorry, its pathetic and after it happens you will have lost the argument and your point by simply making yourselves appear to be petulant nuisances.

MonkeyMonster

bit like tube drivers striking - we may or may not agree you're being unfairly treated but clucking thousands of people off from getting home/to work loses you all sympathy.

greg66_tri_v2.0

gordon861 wrote:

Also, how are our events any different to the Critical Mass events? (esp the M25 one)

They don't.

But Critical Mass are a bunch of cnuts as well.

tgotb

TBH, it's not just motorcyclists and tube drivers who do this: I got home the other night, and encountered a very p*ssed-off 3-year-old daughter, who started throwing lego at me. Turned out to be a protest against being fed the wrong sort of pasta by her mum half an hour before.

There seem to be quite a lot of parallels...

davis

While I reckon deliberately snarling up a motorway is a gitacular thing to do, and won't help your cause, I also think keeping traffic to 50 mph will actually make the motorway flow much, much better.


I travel on the M25 quite a lot...

MonkeyMonster

TGOTB wrote:

TBH, it's not just motorcyclists and tube drivers who do this: I got home the other night, and encountered a very p*ssed-off 3-year-old daughter, who started throwing lego at me. Turned out to be a protest against being fed the wrong sort of pasta by her mum half an hour before.

There seem to be quite a lot of parallels...

priceless

lost_in_thought

MonkeyMonster wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

TBH, it's not just motorcyclists and tube drivers who do this: I got home the other night, and encountered a very p*ssed-off 3-year-old daughter, who started throwing lego at me. Turned out to be a protest against being fed the wrong sort of pasta by her mum half an hour before.

There seem to be quite a lot of parallels...

priceless

+1

Was she throwing said lego from a cot of any kind? And did she throw all of it? And did any other toys remain?

lost_in_thought

davis wrote:

While I reckon deliberately snarling up a motorway is a gitacular thing to do, and won't help your cause, I also think keeping traffic to 50 mph will actually make the motorway flow much, much better.


I travel on the M25 quite a lot...

Don't encourage them! Oh, and it's 40mph...

asprilla

Just had a look at the No To The Bike Parking Tax site and one of the complaints is that drivers wouldn't tolerate being parked so close together like bikers do.

That's just dumb. Bikers choose to park so close together because of a lack of available parking. Most car drivers will tell you that there is a lack of available parking for cars in London but they don't have the choice to park closer together.

A better idea, for me, would be to allow bikes and cars to share the same spaces and everyone pay the same.

gordon861

Almost any form of protest inconviences someone not directly related to the cause, I don't think there has ever been a sucessful campaign that hasn't.

The M25 demo is a big demo to show that we can get serious numbers if people feel enough about it, and it'll be an ecuse to ride along in a large group without getting broken up by traffic lights for a change.

The demo has been mentioned elsewhere and the press do know about it, if they choose not to publicise it we can't force them. We want to get publicity for our court case against Westminster next week, this should get it. WCC are back to playing dirty tricks again, in the last few days they did a press release relating to an incident that was on going last year of people defacing their parking signs, as if it was ongoing at the moment. We haven't had any reports of recent signs being defaced and the campaign has never endorsed it, but because we tell people what to do when they find a defaced sign they claim it's our fault. That's like blaming a firm that advises how to legally get around clamping laws if the signs are wrong, for making the company misprint the signs.

Like I keep saying in this thread I didn't come here for supporters, I came here so you know what's causing the problems when you come accross them.

As I have said before, I feel pushbikes will be charged as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it but that's a discussion for later.

The emissions issue was dealt with earlier in the thread, I can't look up the post right now but it boiled down to the test that compared bikes/cars seemed to pick the 2 most polluting types of bikes to compare with cars, a 50cc and an 1150cc, most commuters use 125cc-600cc depending on distance. A 600cc bike does similar mpg to a 1000cc small car, or at least mine do, I have a 600 Hornet and a 1000cc Aygo.

gordon861

If you are out and about tomorrow and want to avoid us there will be a live tweet from the front part of the convoy - http://twitter.com/bmf_chris

Porgy

gordon861 wrote:

As I have said before, I feel pushbikes will be charged as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it but that's a discussion for later..

The caveat being "as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it" - iThey never will. And as you never answered my points about working any system around children and the fact that children can ride bicycles as well as adults - I can only assume that you're talking out of your arse.

lost_in_thought

Porgy wrote:

gordon861 wrote:

As I have said before, I feel pushbikes will be charged as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it but that's a discussion for later..

The caveat being "as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it" - iThey never will. And as you never answered my points about working any system around children and the fact that children can ride bicycles as well as adults - I can only assume that you're talking out of your ars*.

My goodness.

For one of the first times in.... well.... ever, I agree with Porgy!

Headhuunter

Porgy wrote:

gordon861 wrote:

As I have said before, I feel pushbikes will be charged as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it but that's a discussion for later..

The caveat being "as soon as WCC work out a reliable way to do it" - iThey never will. And as you never answered my points about working any system around children and the fact that children can ride bicycles as well as adults - I can only assume that you're talking out of your ars*.

Absolutely. Unless there is some move to implement (at great cost) bike reg plates (which has failed in Canada, the Netherlands and other countries and currently doesn't exist anywhere, globally), how are they going to enforce payment for bicycle parking? If they do, I simply won't use chargeable bike stands in Westminster and tie my bike up to the nearest tree or railing instead....

gordon861

Headhuunter wrote:

...and tie my bike up to the nearest tree or railing instead....

As mentioned before, I think a number of boroughs will remove your bike if you chain to something you aren't supposed to.

Porgy

If Westminster introduced pay to park for cyclists they'd be breaching TfL policy on moving towards more sustainable transport. they would lose money as no-one would use the scheme - as you say cyclists are very creative with where we park - and parking just outside the borough/ use unofficial facilities/ or take bike inside building with you would all be more attractive options. It would effectively scupper Boris's bike hire scheme anywhere in Westminster as once you've paid the extortionate fee to hire bike, you're not going to want to pay for parking as well; would prevent any children from taking up cycling unless parents are rich.

gordon861

I'm still not convinced the Bike Hire scheme is going to be very successful, I expect about half of the bikes to end up in the Thames or exported to Africa.

Porgy

gordon861 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

...and tie my bike up to the nearest tree or railing instead....

As mentioned before, I think a number of boroughs will remove your bike if you chain to something you aren't supposed to.

So you just have to avoid chaining it to Westminster property and/or causing an obstruction.

Headhuunter

gordon861 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

...and tie my bike up to the nearest tree or railing instead....

As mentioned before, I think a number of boroughs will remove your bike if you chain to something you aren't supposed to.

I think they'd have a tough job justifying that. They don't usually remove motorbikes or cars when illegally parked by damaging locks or breaking doors open, they give you a ticket. if they put a ticket on my bike, I'd just chuck it in the gutter and cycle off.... What they gonna do?