52 days on the bike without a break.

Bhima

Hey, not posted for a while on here. Bit of a whacky post, but bear with me.

Yes, you heard right - absolutely no off-the-bike days in 7 and a half weeks now apart from a few 2-3hr recovery rides. I'm commuting in mountainous terrain for 120-140 minutes per day with longer rides or slower "recovery rides" on my 2 days off. The commutes are 2x ~1 hour rides, with 8 hrs recovery inbetween, while at work, allowing me to go harder than a standard 2hr effort.

Some days have been all-out hour efforts to retest FTP (no stopping on the route is guaranteed) so the TSS numbers are still relevant but i'm concerned that the lack of a full day off the bike for full recovery means FTP tests are probably producing below-par numbers.

I shall do a 2 day taper and retest on Wednesday night's commute, however i'm interested to know what your thoughts are on recovery during such a long period of riding - would recovery from a given effort simply take longer than usual or would the constant riding actually not allow 100% FULL recovery from that particular effort?

That's the question that has been brewing in my head for all this time... I can see watts increasing but my legs feel constantly tight and fatigued. To quote Mark Cavendish, "I wake up in pain, it's normal". As power is definately going up, I know I am recovering, but is there any scientific evidence to say how recovery is affected without occasionally resting completely?

Do certain systems in your body NEED full recovery to adapt? The point of training is obviously to adapt, which requires recovery - but can you actually recover "properly" by constantly riding?

By the way, my nutrition has been excellent throughout and I actually feel fine. I'm eating a TON! I could probably do this ammount of riding again without a rest! I've essentially found the "sweet spot" which a lot of power freaks love to geek over. I reckon another hour or two per week would probably push me over the edge though...

Here's the stats.

February 27th 2010 - 184 TSS
February 28th 2010 - 199 TSS

March 1st 2010 - 145 TSS
March 2nd 2010 - 120 TSS
March 3rd 2010 - 185 TSS
March 4th 2010 - 165 TSS
March 5th 2010 - 187 TSS
March 6th 2010 - 182 TSS
March 7th 2010 - 183 TSS

March 8th 2010 - 188 TSS
March 9th 2010 - 148 TSS
March 10th 2010 - 230 TSS
March 11th 2010 - 122 TSS
March 12th 2010 - 175 TSS
March 13th 2010 - 159 TSS
March 14th 2010 - 198 TSS

March 15th 2010 - 133 TSS
March 16th 2010 - 348 TSS
March 17th 2010 - 139 TSS
March 18th 2010 - 155 TSS
March 19th 2010 - 182 TSS
March 20th 2010 - 188 TSS
March 21st 2010 - 188 TSS

March 22nd 2010 - 180 TSS
March 23rd 2010 - 304 TSS
March 24th 2010 - 102 TSS
March 25th 2010 - 108 TSS
March 26th 2010 - 183 TSS
March 27th 2010 - 150 TSS
March 28th 2010 - 146 TSS

March 29th 2010 - 157 TSS
March 30th 2010 - 301 TSS
March 31st 2010 - 105 TSS
April 1st 2010 - 139 TSS
April 2nd 2010 - 185 TSS
April 3rd 2010 - 165 TSS
April 4th 2010 - 162 TSS

April 5th 2010 - 178 TSS
April 6th 2010 - 295 TSS
April 7th 2010 - 202 TSS
April 8th 2010 - 232 TSS
April 9th 2010 - 98 TSS
April 10th 2010 - 112 TSS
April 11th 2010 - 119 TSS

April 12th 2010 - 78 TSS
April 13th 2010 - 333 TSS
April 14th 2010 - 147 TSS
April 15th 2010 - 130 TSS
April 16th 2010 - 146 TSS
April 17th 2010 - 145 TSS
April 18th 2010 - 148 TSS

April 19th 2010 - 138 TSS

One more thing - is there a generally accepted theoretical limit to a maximum TSS per week before it's not possible to recover quickly enough to sustain it? I find that multiple days over 170-ish would just not be practical for more than 5 days and would require a full day off.

Also, i'd like to know what sort of % improvement in FTP one could expect over this period of time... It's why I wont post FTP numbers yet...

little upstart

Gethin Butler did 365 days on the trot a few years ago, didnt do him much harm. He took up running a few years ago, did 2.14 in his first marathon.

amaferanga

As had been pointed out to me on this very forum - there's more to your training than TSS. Its pretty easy to rack up big TSS numbers by doing a lot of easy riding, but its not a clever way to train.

I didn't have a power meter last year, but I was doing a lot of riding. I also did 2 x 1 hour hilly commutes and then a long, hill ride at the weekend of 200-300km most weekend from April through to August. The result was that I got very comfortable at doing my commute and very comfortable at doing long hilly rides, but I didn't get significantly faster.

With only 4 months of smart training I'm already quite a bit quicker than I was in September last year. Currently I'm training 8-10 hours per week (TSS ~700 /week at the moment) on top of 1 hour round trip commute that I don't count.

It looks like you're just doing the same thing week after week. I'm sure others will be along in a minute with more knowledge than me, but I think you need a bit of progression in your training.

How are you working out your FTP?

And more importantly, when's your first race?

Bhima

Just to clarify, it's far from "easy riding". Each ~ 1 hour commute is between 0.85 and 1 in terms of IF.

I understand it's the same each week and this can lead to a plateau but it's all sweet spot training which is great for building FTP. It never gets easier, you just go faster. It works out about 11 hours of commuting plus 4/5 hours on the other 2 days.

I'm working out FTP from commutes, as they are pretty much 1 hour without stopping. Once every 10 days or so, i'll TT it.

As for racing, it's happening in a couple of months when i'm no longer a vampire - doing a few months of working nights for a while.

I understand the limitations of my current routine, but i'm riding harder and more consistently than ever before, pushing my boundaries, which is good. I'm not really looking for coaching advice on here, especially as my job means I can't really change my commuting riding pattern, but i'm more interested in the long-term effects of such - frankly - brutal riding with regards to adaptation and recovery. Nothing I can really do to create variation apart from on my days off.

amaferanga

What's your ctl / atl?

chrisw12

Fair play Bhima, if those are the real numbers, that's a very good effort. Well done.

For what it's worth, I'm finding the more I train the more recovery can become bit of a nightmare. Days off don't feel that good and the next day after a rest I'll feel terrible. I'm starting to think that I'm better off doing something every day.

I do a lot of very similar rides as you as I also commute 2x1 hour a day in the same sort of if ranges. One thing I've got wrong is not spending enough time above my ftp. I think you've got to be careful, you can rack up tss points but not actually go hard enough to promote adaptation.

DaveyL

I don't think you quite understand. I bet Bhima is spending at least 90 min above his FTP

chrisw12

.

I think that's the beauty of using ftp alongside tss though, you can't really cheat the numbers.

If you set ftp low, you'll generate big tss numbers but look a Richard for having a low ftp.

If you set ftp high, people think wow but tss ends up being low and you look like a lazy boy.

Then again you could just make all the numbers up or apply the add 12 rule to everything

tomb8555

How are you figuring all of this out without a powermeter?

Splottboy

Read Ron Hill, "The Long Hard Road."

Think he "ran" everyday for about 25yrs or something.

Even jogged with his leg strapped up after an op.
Maybe this is why he never made it at the very top levels...

Jeff Jones

Less is more (in this case)

You need to discipline yourself to ride easy on recovery days. This is always going to be a problem on a long commute. I find anything over 90min, no matter how easy I go, is detrimental for recovery.

DaveyL

This is the beauty of FTP and TSS.

And I finally caved and got WKO+ 3.0 with its multi-athlete capability. So, Bhima, if you have a TSS for each ride, presumably you have a powermeter data file. PM me, I'll give you my e-mail address and you can send them all to me. I'd like to see what this performance manager chart looks like.

obizzle

DaveyL wrote:

This is the beauty of FTP and TSS.

And I finally caved and got WKO+ 3.0 with its multi-athlete capability. So, Bhima, if you have a TSS for each ride, presumably you have a powermeter data file. PM me, I'll give you my e-mail address and you can send them all to me. I'd like to see what this performance manager chart looks like.

Yeah, I want to see that too. If Bhima's saying he feels fine and he actually is fine (there is a difference) I'd like to see what level his CTL has got to, and how much above that his ATL is. Prsumably it can't be too much, although I'm only guessing. 7 weeks is a long time in which to send your CTL up to the moon.

chrisw12

So you guys are questioning the figures?


:?

redddraggon

Mountainous terrain? You living in the Alps now then? Your location still says Manchester.

freehub

I'm on my bike every day now. On my recovery days I commute. On my commute route there is this HUGE mountain, and I mean HUGE!, just by PC World turning onto Ashton Old Road.

Heckler1974

That's nothing I regularly commute to the moon.

And my dad's bigger than your dad.

bompington

That's nothing, my xyz is 258.6 and the dx/dx has now been over 999 for 68 days. I find if I push my abc up to 88 and keep my b/s ratio down to 1.111111 then everything's hunky dory.

Homer J

I find it hard to believe that you got your abc up to 88. A pro rider will only get 87!

Heckler1974

Homer J wrote:

I find it hard to believe that you got your abc up to 88. A pro rider will only get 87!

I believe Bomp is using the Truth Crunched Cyclist plan, it worked for me, I went so fast on a 10mile TT I actually made the earth turn back on it's axis and reversed time.

softlad

bompington wrote:

I find if I push my abc up to 88 and keep my b/s ratio down to 1.111111 then everything's hunky dory.

trouble is, the b/s ratio is notoriously hard to control...

bompington

softlad wrote:

bompington wrote:

I find if I push my abc up to 88 and keep my b/s ratio down to 1.111111 then everything's hunky dory.

trouble is, the b/s ratio is notoriously hard to control...

True: there are some posts - sorry, I meant rides - where the b/s ratio can approach 100%

dennisn

I once talked about riding hard every day for SIX months.

freehub

dennisn wrote:

I once talked about riding hard every day for SIX months.

wimp...... You're forgetting about the other SIX months too..... , which equals TWELVE!

amaferanga

Riding every day for 6 months or even 52 days suggests someone with something lacking in their life. He obviously doesn't have a girlfriend, but does Bhima have nae mates?

Anonymous

Bhima, stop riding NOW! Your wattage output for 52 days solid clearly generated so much power it caused a volcanic explosion in Iceland.

God knows what we might see if you continue.

dennisn

freehub wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I once talked about riding hard every day for SIX months.

wimp...... You're forgetting about the other SIX months too..... , which equals TWELVE!

Those were the months I talked about resting and the need for lots of medicinal alcohol.

freehub

NapoleonD wrote:

Bhima, stop riding NOW! Your wattage output for 52 days solid clearly generated so much power it caused a volcanic explosion in Iceland.

God knows what we might see if you continue.

Well Katla will go up for starters.

dennisn wrote:

freehub wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I once talked about riding hard every day for SIX months.

wimp...... You're forgetting about the other SIX months too..... , which equals TWELVE!

Those were the months I talked about resting and the need for lots of medicinal alcohol.

You can rest and get drunk on the bike, just pretend it's water and you'll be fine.

Anonymous

FFS.

What is TSS anyway ?

freehub

dmclite wrote:

FFS.

What is TSS anyway ?

Transwarp sustained slipstream?

disgruntledgoat

Sorry Will, this calculator Bhima lent me is telling me that 6 + 6 actually equals an FTP of 440w.