Overbiking
Comments
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Went for a ride with the missus today, proper full on pootle down the canal, with a picnic, some road riding, and a very ltitle bit of forest. Great weather, great day.
I took out the Heckler, with 140mm pikes, and fox 140mm rear shock. 2.3" conti Vert pros,
The hardtail stayed in the shed.
- basically if i'd have passed you while you were fishing at the side of the canal, next to your family who own a barge (another stereotype i have about you) you'd have seen me on my 6" travel full susser and shouted "OY TOSSER YOUR OVERBIKED, YOUVE RUINED MY DAY"
How do you know I didn't have the Pikes wound down to 90mm, or even pop locked out for that matter, hell how do you know the rear fox wasn't propedalled and totally locked out with the lever? how do you know my conti 2.3" 's weren't pumped up to the nines with big PSI's?
My "overbiked" heckler on todays ride as you would have seen it, can be turned into a hardtail at the flick of 2 switches. AND due to fantastic frame geo is comfy as a lazy boy chair for cruising about AND lightweight,
The right bike for canal tow path pootling is my full susser LOL
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capoz77 wrote:have the Pikes wound down to 90mm, or even pop locked out for that matter, hell how do you know the rear fox wasn't propedalled and totally locked out with the lever? how do you know my conti 2.3" 's weren't pumped up to the nines with big PSI's?
Had you done all that? If so, why?0 -
I ride a Lapierre Froggy 318 180mm travel bike on the road, up the hills and around the Peak district. Overbiked am i f**k!!! It does everything i need and want it to do. I don't care if you ride a £20 shed or a £5000 full carbon i'm out enjoying the same great pleasure which is cycling. Live and let live 8)0
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Yes it really does look like people are never going to realize that overbiking isn't about money.0
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Think of an average ride. Plenty of climbs and descents and flat bits. Perhaps a ride from a magazine. Think about what would be the ideal bike you would choose to ride that on to guarantee you the most enjoyment. Now think about riding that ride on a bigger bike. Bigger tyres, slacker angles, more travel, beefier wheels, sturdier frame, stronger brakes.
Would you still enjoy it as much. Anything technical becomes immediately easier. Anything uphill or flat becomes for the most part slower and harder work physically. It becomes harder to put effort in. Any acceleration is killed. Descents suddenly seem tame, even boring.
Or you could've just read the thread.0 -
Jesus you are right!! I'm off to sell the Froggy and buy a pair of trainers!! Just think of all the singletrack i can feel beneath my feet, all the climbs without lumping 38lb of bike about. Who needs 180mm of boring 30+mph rock garden descending travel when i could walk down it? Maybe i should spend 2k on a pair of hiking boots? Get a grip Realman
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clioterus wrote:JI'm off to sell the Froggy and buy a pair of trainers!!
while I think realman does have a valid point that is being a bit obscured in mudslinging, this I like!Rock Lobster 853, Trek 1200 and a very old, tired and loved Apollo Javelin.0 -
bike-a-swan wrote:clioterus wrote:JI'm off to sell the Froggy and buy a pair of trainers!!
while I think realman does have a valid point that is being a bit obscured in mudslinging, this I like!
Come on then whats the valid point?
That people should be riding the bike realman thinks they should and anything else to contrary is a heathen?
I think its time to move on.0 -
Why do you only ride 180mm and not 200mm?0
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RealMan wrote:capoz77 wrote:have the Pikes wound down to 90mm, or even pop locked out for that matter, hell how do you know the rear fox wasn't propedalled and totally locked out with the lever? how do you know my conti 2.3" 's weren't pumped up to the nines with big PSI's?
Had you done all that? If so, why?
The point is your making assumptions of bikes you see on various trails, and in your own head deciding for them that they are over/under biked. WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY .
I could have been using the canal network to get to a ride in the rocky moors around here.
Realman you can't assume.RealMan wrote:Think of an average ride. Plenty of climbs and descents and flat bits. Perhaps a ride from a magazine. Think about what would be the ideal bike you would choose to ride that on to guarantee you the most enjoyment. Now think about riding that ride on a bigger bike. Bigger tyres, slacker angles, more travel, beefier wheels, sturdier frame, stronger brakes.
Would you still enjoy it as much. Anything technical becomes immediately easier. Anything uphill or flat becomes for the most part slower and harder work physically. It becomes harder to put effort in. Any acceleration is killed. Descents suddenly seem tame, even boring.
Or you could've just read the thread.
ok the above quote pretty much sums up your over biking argument in a nutshell i'll break it down for me (and many others probably)
Think of an average ride. Plenty of climbs and descents and flat bits. Perhaps a ride from a magazine. Think about what would be the ideal bike you would choose to ride that on to guarantee you the most enjoyment. Now think about riding that ride on a bigger bike. Bigger tyres, slacker angles, more travel, beefier wheels, sturdier frame, stronger brakes.
Would you still enjoy it as much.
Ok i thought about the ride on my hardtail VS my Heckler.
I'd enjoy it more on the Heckler everytime, as I can lock it out if I really need to, but the pedaling efficiency of it regardless is fantastic so heckler wins everytime.
Anything technical becomes immediately easier
Not true, the full susser allows me to pick lines the hardtail just wouldn't cope on. Not just pick difficult lines, but pick lines which are then overall more technical EVEN with 140mm travel.
Also the irratating constant vibration on a hardtail from trail chatter on smaller rocky bits = sore wrists, sore lower back, just irrating.
Anything uphill or flat becomes for the most part slower and harder work physically.
I ENJOY PHYSICAL HARDWORK! It gets the heartrate up, endorphin flow in the brain, and the lactic acid build up in the legs, all fantastic things! Oh but guess what I can also lock out the Heckler in 5 seconds if the hill is REALLY steep and be even faster up it.
BUT whats this big obsession with being faster than "someone" else on the trail, its not a fu**ing race. Its about my immersion in the trail.
It becomes harder to put effort in. Any acceleration is killed.
Simply NOT TRUE. Heckler climbs like a mountain goat thanks. BUT again why the shyness towards hard physical work?
Descents suddenly seem tame, even boring.
Simply not true, descents are FAR more enjoyable. In every aspect.
Realman your sounding more like a barge owner, who owns a halfrauds piece of crap and is jealous of people on decent bikes by the minute.0 -
Sorry I read like your first two paragraphs then skipped the rest when I realized you didn't understand what I was saying.RealMan wrote:Think of an average ride. Plenty of climbs and descents and flat bits. Perhaps a ride from a magazine. Think about what would be the ideal bike you would choose to ride that on to guarantee you the most enjoyment.
Sounds like you would choose the heckler to guarantee you the most enjoyment. I don't know why you're talking about your hardtail.RealMan wrote:Now think about riding that ride on a bigger bike. Bigger tyres, slacker angles, more travel, beefier wheels, sturdier frame, stronger brakes.
So, riding that same ride on something much bigger then the heckler. Still as enjoyable?capoz77 wrote:The point is your making assumptions of bikes you see on various trails, and in your own head deciding for them that they are over/under biked. WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW THE FULL STORY .
The only example I have given is of guy on his orange 5 who said himself that he will never ride it anywhere else. The only times when you could realistic judge if someone was overbiked or not without talking to them would be if they have a massive 200mm of travel front and rear and are riding around Amsterdam or something lol. And even then, they might be in some red bull ride down a building thing lol. Most of what I've been saying is based on peoples attitude rather then what people actually ride.0 -
You are getting far more pedantic with this lol. Ok, is not as sweeping a generalization as you started, but you are delving for finer and finer points.
We all have different sweet spots with what we ride. ieWould you still enjoy it as much. Anything technical becomes immediately easier
Some people will enjoy this more - they might ride the part faster, not slower. You find a challenge enjoying. Many don't and want different things.
My ideal bike can change with my mood. Sometimes I want to tackle the rocks on the 80 mm zaskar. Sometimes on the Ruckus with 130 out front.
And wasted travel is not always the travel, but set up and pressures/spring rate. If you are not bottoming out it is usually because you do not have the correct set up, rather than too much travel.0 -
supersonic wrote:My ideal bike can change with my mood. Sometimes I want to tackle the rocks on the 80 mm zaskar. Sometimes on the Ruckus with 130 out front.
Yes, but you're an experienced rider. New riders coming into the sport have no experience to go on, and often just end up with something silly from the cover of MBUK. Newer riders don't have the experience to know what sort of riding needs what bike. And then they get put off when they can't keep up with their more suitably biked mates, and eventually stop riding. I've seen it happen quite a few times. And that's not to mention that overbiking doesn't give you the same learning experience as underbiking. If in doubt, underbike, is what I believe.0 -
Not all of them.
I agree that some people could pick bikes that they would find better in the wrong run. Not all though. But when you say...Think of an average ride. Plenty of climbs and descents and flat bits. Perhaps a ride from a magazine. Think about what would be the ideal bike you would choose to ride that on to guarantee you the most enjoyment. Now think about riding that ride on a bigger bike. Bigger tyres, slacker angles, more travel, beefier wheels, sturdier frame, stronger brakes.
Would you still enjoy it as much. Anything technical becomes immediately easier. Anything uphill or flat becomes for the most part slower and harder work physically. It becomes harder to put effort in. Any acceleration is killed. Descents suddenly seem tame, even boring.
...you are not referring to just beginners, but all, or so it seems.0 -
No, I was just trying to define it for someone there. I think I should have named the thread, "Is bigger always better?" cause that's what its really about. Some people when they buy a bike seem to just go after as much travel as they can. I'd be more inclined to think "what do I plan to ride on this bike?" and then think "what travel would be suitable for that?".
So what do you think? Is bigger always better?0 -
Not always.
What is 'better' is what gives the rider what they want. Not what you think tis best for that rider 0 -
But do people always know what they want? You still get people riding around with 60psi in their tyres. Its what they "want", but it makes them slower and destroys the ride and grip. I think the majority of people who are overbiked, don't realise that they are overbiked.asdfhjkl wrote:But I don't think anyone would argue that with you.
Someone did, about 5 or so pages back.0 -
You should run for election Realman, you talk enough sh*t.0
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But many find out through trial and error. 60psi is fine for some terrain.
Did you suddenly think, 'right, I am going to get this bke, this spec, this set up and it is going to be 100% right'.
Of course not.0 -
realman:
you seem to think that everyone on a bike has to conform to what you enjoy and everything that ruins your rides will automatically ruin a ride for everyone else.
some folk ride big bikes because it is fun, it might not be fun for you but others it is. some folk WILL be faster and enjoy their bigger bike more than a hardtail, regardless of the terrain and its direction. why is this so hard for you to understand, why are you so hung up on other peoples bike choices?
realman, i can only assume your mum left you for a man on a 160mm fs bike when you were even younger.0 -
No, for my first bike I talked to experienced riders about what I should buy. Then I went on my own experience and others as well. I didn't just get what was on the cover of MBUK.0
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RealMan wrote:No, for my first bike I talked to experienced riders about what I should buy. Then I went on my own experience and others as well. I didn't just get what was on the cover of MBUK.
why do you get so upset about whether folk buy what YOU deem to be the correct bike? why is it a problem when folk buy bikes they like the look of on a magazine cover?0 -
Because I think it discourages new riders to sticking with the sport.0
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Discourages some riders maybe. Not all.
And remember: some treat it as leisure, not sport.0 -
supersonic wrote:And remember: some treat it as leisure, not sport.
Nail, Hit, Head, the, on, the - rearrange into a well known phrase
Realman, this is clearly a topic that bothers you as we are now at page 17 and without your constant defending of your view, this thread would have died long ago.
Your never going to get agreement from the vast majority on this forum as most of us are simple creatures that just like going out and riding, rather than getting into the finer philosophical, intellectual, tree hugging, save a dolphin, hippy crap that this thread is full of.0 -
Ok following from my last bit of input, I've been home for about 2 hours now from a savage club ride where a group of 6 of us went off on a fast route on our own - some supertechnical bits, some big climbs, some fast descending and everything else in between.
In the fast group we had 2 Bionicon Edisons (6" travel), a Lapierre Zesty 914 (5 1/2" travel), a Kona Hei Hei (4" travel), a Specialized Enduro (6" travel) and a Commencal hardtail (0" travel). We were all pretty evenly matched on the various stages and all completed the route in over 30 minutes less than the mid-paced group. We were all knackered at the end from driving each other on so much from start to finish, so given the fact we all ride such different bikes but all finished MUCH faster than anyone else, were we overbiked (in the case of the big travel bikes) or underbiked (in the case of the shorter or no travel bikes)?
But if those of us on the full suss bikes were overbiked, wouldn't we have been slower on the hills according to previous statements? 0
This discussion has been closed.
