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Your TT position - pics

Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
edited December 2018 in Training, fitness and health
Starting a new topic for this one.
celbianchi wrote:
go on - I'm game for a bit of postion tweaking. Photo taken 2 weeks ago on second lap of a hilly 23. The meteor helmet is new this season, I must see about getting it closer to my back - looks unaero to me, though could just have been head position at the time. I think it needs to rotate back a bit.

Anyhow - position has not been tweaked for a while and in terms of standard distance saw me get a 21'12 in a 10 last season (levens) and a 56'26 25 (M2510). Last season was first at tt'ing though have road raced for a few years). I usually finish between 6th and 10th in most Open north eastern events.
FTP on my road bike is 290.

Oh - weight is around 73kg, 5'9 tall

Fill yer boots with constructive positional advice - especially Jeff who is a bit brisk himself.

p4pb4866286.jpg

Front on shots are good for this sort of stuff.

Your position isn't bad but it needs a bit of work, especially your helmet/head position. Helmet needs to be flatter against your back and your head/torso could go down a bit, subject to you being able to still put out the power. Ditto your elbows could come in, although not too much.

Wouter Sybrandy has it sorted:
1271006483997-qsy9hjzkq1xc-600-75.jpg

I find the Bell Meteor needs a lot of tweaking to sit flat on your back, e.g. two weeks ago I had it right
1269867725910-1ihlty1iucjrn-600-75.jpg

But last Saturday I was in too much of a hurry and it was pointing up too much at the back and moving around a lot. Not that it would have made 2+min difference - it's the principle of the matter!
1271006484006-5etzbm7wi1t-600-65.jpg

15min of adjusting the straps and a bit of tape has it nice and snug now.
Jeff Jones

Product manager, Sports
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Posts

  • celbianchicelbianchi Posts: 854
    Thanks Jeff - I will have a look at the helmet.

    I might think about changing the bars as they are what came with the bike when I bought it (profile design T2). They are set as close to the stem as I can get them.
    I have one more spacer under the stem I can drop the front end. A longer stem also maybe?

    I'm aiming for a mid 20 for a ten on a decent course this season so any watts for free are most welcome.
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    the position i always wanted to emulate
    d023_deane-eamonn_1744-193.jpg[/img]
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    and me with out the disc
    img001.jpg
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • AirwaveAirwave Posts: 483
    sub55 wrote:
    the position i always wanted to emulate
    d023_deane-eamonn_1744-193.jpg[/img]
    Is that Eamon Deane?
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    Airwave wrote:
    sub55 wrote:
    the position i always wanted to emulate
    d023_deane-eamonn_1744-193.jpg[/img]
    Is that Eamon Deane?

    yes in the 24h
    Orson
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • Mog UkMog Uk Posts: 964
    Jeff,

    What did you make the visor from for your Meteor ?

    I got one from Bob Heath Visors but because the helmet sits far back on my head ( to get the fit right ) the visor isn't deep enough! That one on your photos looks spot on.

    Cheers.....
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    Mog Uk wrote:
    Jeff,

    What did you make the visor from for your Meteor ?

    I got one from Bob Heath Visors but because the helmet sits far back on my head ( to get the fit right ) the visor isn't deep enough! That one on your photos looks spot on.

    Cheers.....
    I got one from a guy on the timetrialling.co.uk forum, who made a batch of them and sold them. He didn't do it to make money and AFAIK isn't making any more.

    I guess you could make your own with the right perspex?
    nmcgann wrote:
    Just over 6ft 1in, 11st-ish. My avatar on a thread on the TT board has a pic of me racing http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... =44329&hl=

    I don't look particularly un-aero, but I am. I've narrowed my elbows a bit over the winter, I don't know if that has helped yet.
    No you don't look it, although front-on would tell more of the story. You're only an inch taller than me and the same weight so we shouldn't be vastly different. I have my elbows further back than you, and my knees go inwards over the top tube.

    Tried tiliting your bars up slightly?
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    Here is one of me from a New Years Day 10.

    4517674076_9c8c026f0e_o.jpg

    As Jeff has said still need to sort out the helmet 100%, or possibly get a better fitting helmet.
  • celbianchicelbianchi Posts: 854
    SBezza wrote:
    Here is one of me from a New Years Day 10.

    4517674076_9c8c026f0e_o.jpg

    As Jeff has said still need to sort out the helmet 100%, or possibly get a better fitting helmet.

    I was fiddling with my helmet last night (quiet at the back there!). I put the meteor II on, played with the straps for a bit, then kind of held the tail and pulled it downards towards my back, there was a ratchety type noise like when you pull a cable tie through, and then when I got on the bike - it was pretty much flat down against my back, hopefully it will stay there when riding at race intensity. However, I could see no ratchety type plastic inside the lid that would lead to this.
    Maybe I've broken it!
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    sub55: spot on!

    SteveR_100Milers: as others have said, you are making life harder for yourself with extra weight. Shedding a bit should enable you to get your elbows a bit narrower (subject to you being able to breathe ok). Alternatively, you could go wider with your forearms but aim to keep shadowing your thighs.

    Big shoulders are of no help in a TT, unfortunately.

    SBezza: you look cold :) Besides the helmet, have you tried a slightly upward bar tilt? And dropping the stem a little?
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    Jeff Jones wrote:
    SBezza: you look cold :) Besides the helmet, have you tried a slightly upward bar tilt? And dropping the stem a little?

    Not tried the bars tilted upwards, they are actually parallel to the ground though they don't look like it in that pic.

    With regards to the stem, I have an adjustable one fitted, that is down as far as it will go. I could get a longer adjustable stem which would allow me to get slightly lower, and slightly longer, but other than that it is a new frame.

    The frame is perhaps slightly too big for me, but until I get one that is a better fit, it will have to do.
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    I was just thinking you had fairly short upper arms so tilting the bars may help. Not praying mantis but more Leipheimer style.

    You have a power meter don't you? You could maybe test this with some roll down tests.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    Ah I see what you mean Jeff, I could do a few tests. No I don't have a PM yet, hopefully at the end of the year though :)
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    Actually roll down tests don't even require a power meter :) Just an accurate stopwatch.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • celbianchicelbianchi Posts: 854
    I am going to tinker for a club 10 tomorrow night. The orbea Ora I use has two saddle positions, in the pic above it is on the 'Chron' position, that is the furthest back. I am going to move it onto the 'Tri' position which is about an iunch forward and if I have read the orbea stuff right increases the seat tube angle to around 78 degrees from 74ish. I will pop the saddle height up a fraction to compensate.
    I am riding the same 10 course as I rode on Sunday so we'll see how it goes.
    Oh - and I have taken the bottom spacer off below the stem so I'm right down at the lowest height.
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    26079377396868214586708.jpg


    Not in the same leauge as the others but I would be grateful for a few pointers. I DO know I have to loose some weight. and I only have access to this bike for the moment for TTing.

    26079377396693214586708.jpg
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    Jeff Jones wrote:
    sub55: spot on!
    thanks jeff, but it cant be that good because the last time we met ,you stuffed me for 3 mins down the bank .
    img007.jpg
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    here`s an interesting one, 2 blokes going around the same roundabout in the same event , but ones abit quicker than the other, an you guess who?

    img004.jpg

    img006.jpg
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
  • AirwaveAirwave Posts: 483
    sub55 wrote:
    here`s an interesting one, 2 blokes going around the same roundabout in the same event , but ones abit quicker than the other, an you guess who?

    img004.jpg

    img006.jpg

    Yeh but he goes around corners like i go down 25%hills with the wind behind me:lol:
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    markos1963 wrote:
    Not in the same leauge as the others but I would be grateful for a few pointers. I DO know I have to loose some weight. and I only have access to this bike for the moment for TTing.
    Markos1963, the biggest time saving you could make is to stop wearing bulky clothes. I know it's tough when it's cold but if you're careful you can get away with a skinsuit, decent long sleeve base layer and tight fitting leg warmers.

    Position wise, I'd experiment with tilting the bars up a bit to get your elbow angle closer to 90 degrees. This is not a be all and end all - I just find it easier to generate power that way because I can 'lock myself in' a bit better. There are plenty of counter examples (Boardman, Obree in the superman position)

    You're quite upright too, but I assume that's because you're on your road bike (tried an angled stem?)
    sub55 wrote:
    Jeff Jones wrote:
    sub55: spot on!
    thanks jeff, but it cant be that good because the last time we met ,you stuffed me for 3 mins down the bank .
    There's also the engine to consider ;) I'm finding that requires a fairly consistent (some might say boring) approach to improve its capacity. But there are lots of threads on that.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    edited April 2010
    My contribution. Please ignore the front wheel as I got a flat right before the start and had to swap wheels!

    I struggle with getting my head in the right position. But otherwise - open to suggestions!


    IMG_8480001.jpg



    Compared to position last year:
    8818_176219255752_712610752_3355203.jpg

    Have raised saddle and moved it back. Plus lost some weight!
  • celbianchicelbianchi Posts: 854
    Pokerface wrote:
    My contribution. Please ignore the front wheel as I got a flat right before the start and had to swap wheels!

    I struggle with getting my head in the right position. But otherwise - open to suggestions!


    IMG_8480001.jpg


    That looks good to me, you've picked up the helmet position already (seems like a few of us need to pay more attention here). I'd be happy with that.
    I tweaked mine for a club event last night, moved the saddle position into the 78 degree position (it has two option 74 or 78) I'd always used 74. So went for a more aggressive position and dropped the bars removing my bottom spacer. Felt pretty good. Rode a pb on the 10 course in question and 25 secs quicker than I did the same course on sunday in an Open. I had road raced on Saturday though and could feel it in my legs on Sun, so the jury is out still .Felt good though,
  • Pokerface wrote:
    My contribution. Please ignore the front wheel as I got a flat right before the start and had to swap wheels!

    I struggle with getting my head in the right position. But otherwise - open to suggestions!


    IMG_8480001.jpg



    Compared to position last year:
    8818_176219255752_712610752_3355203.jpg

    Have raised saddle and moved it back. Plus lost some weight!

    Your saddle still looks a little too low to me judging by the amount of knee angle at the bottom of your stroke maybe?
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    Pokerface, I think you could get lower in front without compromising your power.

    We've got similar setups and are both quite compact wrt elbows being close to knees but I've got a more horizontal torso: http://www.charleswhittonphotography.co ... 41971.html
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    Jeff Jones wrote:
    Pokerface, I think you could get lower in front without compromising your power.

    We've got similar setups and are both quite compact wrt elbows being close to knees but I've got a more horizontal torso: http://www.charleswhittonphotography.co ... 41971.html

    Thanks Jeff. How do I get lower? Just take some shims out of the headset/bars?
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    Pokerface wrote:
    Jeff Jones wrote:
    Pokerface, I think you could get lower in front without compromising your power.

    We've got similar setups and are both quite compact wrt elbows being close to knees but I've got a more horizontal torso: http://www.charleswhittonphotography.co ... 41971.html

    Thanks Jeff. How do I get lower? Just take some shims out of the headset/bars?
    That's what I did. One at a time to give yourself a chance to adapt, and give it a few weeks before deciding whether it's working or not.

    Another option is a more steeply angled stem (looks like you've already flipped it the right way).

    Your position this year does look lower than last year though - it's not too far off the classic 'flat back'
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 7,960
    Thanks Jeff. Will have a go at lowering the front end each week on the club 10s and see if there is any improvement. I
  • borisfaceborisface Posts: 273
    It seems the just about everyone has a problem with the bell meteor sticking up in the air or not being very flat down the back. I know I did. I zip-tied and taped a 4oz fishing weight in the pointy end and it seems to have done the trick.
  • sub55sub55 Posts: 1,025
    borisface wrote:
    It seems the just about everyone has a problem with the bell meteor sticking up in the air or not being very flat down the back. I know I did. I zip-tied and taped a 4oz fishing weight in the pointy end and it seems to have done the trick.

    i`m not recommending that anyone does this, but i know a rider who drilled a small hole
    in the tail of his lid, through which he threaded an elastic band , which was then safety
    pinned to his skinsuit . worked a treat , problem is , its nighon impossible to look behind you.
    alternatively , you could just buy a decent lid that fits better.
    constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly
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