Traffic Light Etiquette

on the road

Inovache wrote:

is it therefore okay for motorists to jump reds if it is safe to proceed?

Are you trying to say that motorists don't jump red lights?

I see loads of motorists jump red lights, they don't even stop for people walking across zebra crossings.

Inovache

No Im asking if you think it is acceptable for cars to do it.

furrag

Inovache wrote:

No Im asking if you think it is acceptable for cars to do it.

In theory, no.

How many cars do you see slowing down when approaching a green traffic light? I very rarely see brake lights. As soon as it turns amber, they hit the accelerator, and some do pass through at red. That is why the green man appears 2-3 seconds after the light turning red.

My friend slams his brakes on when he sees amber. Emergency stop-esque. I've told him that one day he's going to have someone go into the back of him to which he replies "Then it's their fault as I'm adhering to the highway code."

on the road

lukasran wrote:

on the road, you seem a bit unhinged. please stop your strange kind of logic. your giving us decent RLJ's a bad name.

Is there such a thing as a decent RLJ?

Also, you should read all my previous posts.

Here you are

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... c&start=20

Now that you've read my previous posts, my question to you is, isn't that what you do?

on the road

Inovache wrote:

You should also show a little more regard for the other road users you may be putting in danger e.g. the motorist you one day don't see as you jump the red light, who then has to take evasive action to avoid you and ploughs into some other unlucky soul.

You Should have read all my previous posts.

You say "motorist you one day don't see as you jump the red light, who then has to take evasive action to avoid you and ploughs into some other unlucky soul" that will never happen, because I slow down at the lights, look both ways and look for traffic, and I doubly check that the road is empty before going across, so there's no chance of a car swerving when there's none there.

It's only people like you and Felt so Good who are twisting my words for your own pleasure.

Just to make it abolutely I clear,

I do stop at red most of the time.

The only time I go through a red light is early in the morning and when there's no traffic (I do know there's no traffic because I checked), or when turning left.

As for crossings, I don't go through when there are people on the crossing, what I usually do is slow down before I get there then I can stay clipped in, by the time I get there it's changed to green. And if by the time I get there and people are still crossing then I DO STOP. Like I've said many times before, I have no intention of going through when there are people still crossing, you don't have to believe me if you don't want to but that's the truth.

I know Felt so Good thinks I just plough throgh when people are still crossing, but he can think what he wants being the stupid prick he is, he just reads what he wants to read and dismisses the rest out of hand, if he can't make an argument against it then he wiil assume the opposite just for his own little pleasure.

Here you are

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... c&start=20

Now where does it say I just plough through without checking it's safe to go first?

Where does it say I go through while people are still crossing?

Why don't you or even Felt so Good point it out for me on those posts?

Pross

Furrag wrote:

Inovache wrote:

No Im asking if you think it is acceptable for cars to do it.

In theory, no.

How many cars do you see slowing down when approaching a green traffic light? I very rarely see brake lights. As soon as it turns amber, they hit the accelerator, and some do pass through at red. That is why the green man appears 2-3 seconds after the light turning red.

My friend slams his brakes on when he sees amber. Emergency stop-esque. I've told him that one day he's going to have someone go into the back of him to which he replies "Then it's their fault as I'm adhering to the highway code."

He's not though is he? The amber is there to warn you to slow down and stop "if safe". If you have to jam the brakes on it isn't safe

Paul32uk

If it is safe to do so then you can stop as fast / hard as you like. Amber means brake and stop if safe to do so. It would however not be safe if on checking your rear view mirror the car behind is tailgaiting. This is why you make a mirror check prior to approaching a junction.

I can understand what someone was on about when they said decent and non decent RLJ'rs. In my head when I am cycling I am still a pedestrian I just chose to pedal instead of walk to wherever I wish to go. Granted I am cycling on the highway still.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future years with regards to rules on the roads for cyclists. With the global warming issues and the push for everyone to be greener maybe we too shall start adopting similar rules to those of other EU countries.

The personal attacks in the threads are getting a little out of hand. Lets take it back to a more friendly debate now

I do think still that it is perfectly safe to cross over at a junction (just as you would if you were a pedestrian on foot) if you have stopped and checked that there are no dangers. What cars do isn't the topic here. I do however think that a car sat at a junction will not always have as good a visibility as someone on a bike. They cannot position themselves in a manner to be able to see up and down the roads at the junction clearly all of the time.

When I am crossing the road on foot I never manage to walk / collide with other people so I cannot see how after stopping and checking the route ahead how I will if I cross the same junction on my bike.

fermion

Pross wrote:

Furrag wrote:

Inovache wrote:

No Im asking if you think it is acceptable for cars to do it.

In theory, no.

How many cars do you see slowing down when approaching a green traffic light? I very rarely see brake lights. As soon as it turns amber, they hit the accelerator, and some do pass through at red. That is why the green man appears 2-3 seconds after the light turning red.

My friend slams his brakes on when he sees amber. Emergency stop-esque. I've told him that one day he's going to have someone go into the back of him to which he replies "Then it's their fault as I'm adhering to the highway code."

He's not though is he? The amber is there to warn you to slow down and stop "if safe". If you have to jam the brakes on it isn't safe

But sometimes if you see the light going amber you have to make a call - either keep going and maybe just pass through on red, or slam on the breaks and risk someone going to the back of you.

It's these situations where you either employ a bit of common sense or follow the highway code to the letter. Other similar situations come up constantly when driving, and cycling is no different, and neither is being a pedestrian for that matter. If you are approaching a road which you can see is empty for a quarter mile in either direction do you press the button and wait for the green man or do you just cross?


I still do not understand people expecting cyclists to behave in the same way as cars. Do you expect pedestrians on the road (it happens out here in the country) to behave the same way as cars? Than why expect cyclists to behave as cars?

Escargot

Dear me. I can't believe the number of opinionated people on here. Why don't you just accept that people run red lights and leave them to it. ? Fine if you don't and cycle to the letter of the law but if others want to do different then fair enough. Where do you get the holier than thou BS from :roll:

So I take it the same people that abhor RLJers have never revelled in doing more than 30mph down a hill in a residential area or over 40mph in a rural area ?

S#it man I get kicks out of setting off the unhappy face speed camera on the street. Jeez man :roll:

on the road

on the road wrote:

lukasran wrote:

on the road, you seem a bit unhinged. please stop your strange kind of logic. your giving us decent RLJ's a bad name.

Is there such a thing as a decent RLJ?

Also, you should read all my previous posts.

Here you are

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/forums/vi ... c&start=20

Now that you've read my previous posts, my question to you is, isn't that what you do?

I'll take that as a yes then :roll:

lukasran is just a sh*t stirrer.

Bullet1

Drove to work this morning.......waiting on red at a pedestrian crossing.

Lollypop man stuck his lollypop up, kids starting crossing, cyclist (on a mountain bike)breezed through on red, not slowing down. Missed all the folk crossing the road but...

......it made my blood boil!

the_prophet

...first commute this morning of the year, sat waiting at number of different sets of lights ranging from t junctions to major cross roads and around 5/6 people just sailed straight past me and through the lights..... so frustrating.

Jennyinwaiting

Rick Chasey wrote:

Jennyinwaiting wrote:

Bikes have to keep to the same road rules that cars do, by law. It's not really an issue of etiquette :P

Just because it's the law, doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing to do.

Yeah, I agree with you entirely there, but the problem is that once you break the road rules, noone else on the road knows what you're up to, and it puts you at more risk.

Paul32uk

Jennyinwaiting wrote:

Yeah, I agree with you entirely there, but the problem is that once you break the road rules, noone else on the road knows what you're up to, and it puts you at more risk.

The majority of people on the road dont have a clue what anyone else is up to regardless

oldwelshman

Today coming back from training ride, came to a 4 way junction going straight ( I only ever go left if clear) and stopped a a red light, to my left was a police car.
Coming behind was a van that came very close to me and went straight through the red light and guess what, the police car did nothing!!
So as I waited does this mean the van driver will now respect all cyclists as I waited, even though he jumped the light? :?

Bullet1

It's now 2 1/2 years since I posted the original post and watching the BBC War on Britains Roads made me think think back

Rick Chasey wrote:

Probably.

The question is: would it stop you?

Rick - I can honestly say I haven't RLJ'd since the day of this post as a result of the feedback recieved as a newbie. I now fully understand how this tars all cyclist with the same brush and really makes my blood boil when I see it happen.

In the main from my experience there are two types of commuter traffic on the road on two wheels

People on bikes - generally a clapped out mountain bikes, no helmets, no lights etc. These are the people who I see every day oblivious to all aspects of the highway code
Cyclists - people who ride for the enjoyment of riding and will also commute. These are the ones which generally spend more time on the road and follow the highway code.

drlodge

OK, I am a RLJ, sometimes, very infrequently. I pretty much always stop at red lights since it simply isn't safe to try and jump them and its certainly not legal... I have jumped red lights before, probably no more than a handful of times:
- when approaching a junction and I can see there is no one around (pedestrians, cars etc), I will slow and if safe to cross I will *slowly*. Not much different to being a pedestrian crossing the road ona red light really.
- If approaching a junction and the green turns amber, I may take the view that I can get across safely enough even if the red light shows as I cross the line. Bit border line this one - one should slow as approaching the lights in case they turn amber/red
- as someone else posted, at roadworks where the road narrows to a long single lane track where over taking is not possible. I may jump the light early or late so I can get through without holding traffic up. I also look at whether the coned off section of road is accessible, since that is a bail out plan if I were to meet traffic coming the other way.

So yes, I jump red lights but as an exception, and always slowing and carefully. Its not legal, it may not be right, and I take full responsibility for my actions.

Was crossing the road opposite Charing Cross station the other day, this fixie cyclist was coming down the hill at around 20mph, totally ignored the red light and pedestrians in the road (including me) and went straight through. This is the kind of idiotic behaviour that really riles people. Its selfish and dangerous.

Attitude is everything.

lotus49

Bullet1 wrote:

As someone who is fairly new to commuting (17 miles into Manchester) I have been know to 'jump' the occasional red light especially when turning left- as and when I'm not putting myself or any other road user/pedestrian in danger. Not all the time but occasionally.

Whilst this is obviously still a traffic offence is it 'acceptable' or am I some who gives all law abiding cyclists a bad name.

I don't want to get too sanctimonious about it but all cyclists have a duty to each other to ensure that car drivers treat us with respect. Jumping the lights is both unsafe and antagonises drivers so I firmly believe you shouldn't do it.

The roads would be safer and more pleasant for everyone if all road users knew their Highway Code and stuck to it. I strongly recommend you read Cyclecraft by John Franklin. It's full of useful advice about how to ride safely in traffic.

[Edit]
I hadn't realised that this was such an old thread or I probably wouldn't have extended its life any further. The fact that the OP is still alive suggests he is probably past needing to read Cyclecraft but it was helpful to me.

mouth

I don't agree with RLJ on the wholesale front, BUT I'm not gonna lie and say that yes, I do indeed RLJ if I think it's safe.

Safe is a personal assessment. On my way into work at 4 am I quite happily roll through the crossroads if there's nothing coming. I know this because I can hear anything coming and see in all directions on approach. At this time of day I can make most of the 4 or so miles to work and not even see a moving vehicle some days. Only once in the last 6 or so months (Commuting by bike 2-3 times per week) have I had to wait at the junction for a vehicle.On the way home at say 4 pm I wouldn't dare even think about it because of the volume of traffic.

I spend 40-50 hours a week on the road and do see some really hideous behaviour from all types of road users. It's a wonder that some of them have lived so long to be honest.

jonbob78

lotus49 wrote:

Bullet1 wrote:

As someone who is fairly new to commuting (17 miles into Manchester) I have been know to 'jump' the occasional red light especially when turning left- as and when I'm not putting myself or any other road user/pedestrian in danger. Not all the time but occasionally.

Whilst this is obviously still a traffic offence is it 'acceptable' or am I some who gives all law abiding cyclists a bad name.

I don't want to get too sanctimonious about it but all cyclists have a duty to each other to ensure that car drivers treat us with respect. Jumping the lights is both unsafe and antagonises drivers so I firmly believe you shouldn't do it.

The roads would be safer and more pleasant for everyone if all road users knew their Highway Code and stuck to it. I strongly recommend you read Cyclecraft by John Franklin. It's full of useful advice about how to ride safely in traffic.

[Edit]


I hadn't realised that this was such an old thread or I probably wouldn't have extended its life any further. The fact that the OP is still alive suggests he is probably past needing to read Cyclecraft but it was helpful to me.

Lotus - see my post 2 above yours