Traffic Light Etiquette

Chip \'oyler

fermion wrote:

I think the arguments on here for not going through red lights are ridiculous. I'll try and sum them up, and explain why they're wrong:

1) "It's the law" - You may blindly follow the law, but I am capable of using some common sense and judgment. IMO the law is idiotic - cars and bicycles are not the same in any way - they are different sizes, travel at different speeds, and one has the potential to do a hell of a lot more damage than the other. If it was so dangerous to turn left on a red light on a bike, why the hell does it work so effectively in countries that are more cyclist friendly than here, namely the Netherlands.

2) "It upsets car drivers" - To be honest I couldn't give a damn about car drivers who have a problem with cyclists. If you think all cyclists stopping at red lights will stop them hating cyclists, you are incredibly naive. And I say this as a car driver myself, but one that understands the differences between cars and bikes. I'm not going to put my self at risk to appease some moron clogging up the roads with his car.

3) "It's dangerous" - No. It works extremely effectively in other countries, ie. the Netherlands. Arguably it is safer than getting stuck in a queue of traffic with aggressive motorists and HGV drivers. A competent cyclist capable of employing common sense will be able to RLJ perfectly safely.

Well done 'big man'. You carry on jumping lights.

antfly

This is one way of getting through a red light that shouldn`t upset anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EAqVJUm_Fs
That`s me BTW.

on the road

I feel so great, like I've "come out"

Would anyone else like to come out of the closet and admit to jumping the occasional red light instead of pretending to be a goodie two shoes? I'm sure there's a few on here, a case of "do as I say not as I do".

ilm_zero7

so On The Road has come out and has a smiley face - like you are pleased with yourself - MISTAKE! you should be ashamed of yourself

cyclists like you, do for cyclists in general what what Pit Bulls do for dogs in general

its socially unacceptable - well I hope it is you that i manage clip on a crossing when I have a green man!

squigs

On Sky news today there is a story about a cyclist who has been held on suspicion of involuntary manslaughter by recklessness and negligence after knocking over a woman who was crossing a road and killed her. I wonder if her daughter who was with her would share your opinion. It does not matter how much experience you have these things can happen at any point, that is why measures like traffic lights are there.
Before you start, I know we do not know every fact about the case, but im sure the cyclist had the same opinion as everyone else.

End of discussion

Chip \'oyler

antfly wrote:

This is one way of getting through a red light that shouldn`t upset anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EAqVJUm_Fs
That`s me BTW.

So you jump red lights and ride on the pavement? Tell you what, why don't you go round roundabouts the wrong way as well.

Well done. The next time a motorist has a go at me 'because all cyclists are law breakers' I'll think of you, you nob.

In fact I've got a great idea. I'll forward your 'You Tube' video to the coppers eh?

phreak

That accident occured in Camden. It doesn't say that the cyclist jumped a light or anything, just that he banged into her whilst she was crossing the road.

An awful lot of people on this thread are very quick to judge others it seems. If that's their thing then so be it.

squigs

phreak wrote:

That accident occured in Camden. It doesn't say that the cyclist jumped a light or anything, just that he banged into her whilst she was crossing the road.

An awful lot of people on this thread are very quick to judge others it seems. If that's their thing then so be it.

Read my post!! it says that we do not know the facts about the incident, but just proves it can happen at any point and that is why the measures are there, i.e traffic lights. Charged with involuntary manslaughter!

on the road

Felt so Good wrote:

so On The Road has come out and has a smiley face - like you are pleased with yourself - MISTAKE! you should be ashamed of yourself

cyclists like you, do for cyclists in general what what Pit Bulls do for dogs in general

its socially unacceptable - well I hope it is you that i manage clip on a crossing when I have a green man!

You've changed your tune, you sent me this private message

Felt so Good wrote:

absolutely spot on - well said!

in response to this

on the road wrote:

SheffSimon wrote:

on the road wrote:

SheffSimon wrote:

A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.

Sad.

What's the point of coming in here if you don't have anything to add?

I made my own comments near the start of this thread, and a lot of the posts since have been about reasons why cyclists shouldnt have to wait at red lights, many of which have been yours.

You have also stated that you ride thru ped crossings if the lights are still on red but the way is clear - the only reason you would do that is that you cant be arsed to wait, not for any reasons of safety, wee-wee poor IMO. You are f****** idiot who will end up knocking someone down on a crossing. I would guess that you are so confident in your own abilities that you think this will never happen.

I hate seeing cyclists RLJ and I make my opinions known to them if they come sailing past me at lights.

Very nice :roll:

I don't give a toss what you think, if it pis$es you off, so what.

By the way, I've been cycling 30+ years and never knocked anyone over in that time, I would hazard a guess that I'm more experienced then you in these matters. Come back in 30 years when you have more experience.

You obviously couldn't be bothered to read my previous post, here it is for you, read it again soft lad.

on the road wrote:

Felt so Good wrote:

in my pedestiran commute in London and am raging when cyclists run the red light on a pedestiran crossing - sometimes i even feel the draught! - and I get sworn at..... well all i will say is one day those cyclists might just get a nudge from a heavy briefcase and they will be off

Well if there's people crossing, then those cyclists should stop.

When I come up to a pedestrian crossing with the red light showing and people crossing, I will slow down hoping it will clear by the time I get there (they sometimes even change to green by the time I get there with slowing down) and then I will go through once there's no one crossing, if by the time I get there and there are people still crossing then I will stop, I have no intention of going through while there are people still crossing.

As for other lights, I will slow down and check the coast is clear and then go, if not I will stop. It must be stressed that I only do that on less busy roads, not on busy roads, and definately not where the road crosses a dual carriageway.

So are you a RLJ or what? Make your mind up. Or are you just one of those "do as I say not as I do people".

I suspect the latter.

antfly

Chip \'oyler wrote:

antfly wrote:

This is one way of getting through a red light that shouldn`t upset anyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EAqVJUm_Fs
That`s me BTW.

So you jump red lights and ride on the pavement? Tell you what, why don't you go round roundabouts the wrong way as well.

Well done. The next time a motorist has a go at me 'because all cyclists are law breakers' I'll think of you, you nob.

In fact I've got a great idea. I'll forward your 'You Tube' video to the coppers eh?

If you like but i`m not expecting it to appear on Crimewatch any time soon.

simon johnson

Does the 'type' of red light matter? And the speed at which it is jumped? I've been through a pedestrian red light before but slowed to stop and check for peds, then jumped at about 3mph.

99.999% of the time I've stop at red lights though and find it annoying when cyclists jump at crazy speeds- ignorant, selfish and arrogant. I think there's about 15+ potential red lights on my route- the trackstand has been perfected

I always find a primary position though when stopping for lights, and if I haven't seen the red light change then I will not attempt to get to the front. I see this happening every morning; cyclists frantically scrambling down the LHS of traffic, even HGV!, in the tightest spots to get an advantage when they have no idea if the light will suddenly change! Unfathomable and frightening.

ilm_zero7

SheffSimon
love your message to ONthe Road - what a pr*t he must be

i note I accidentally sent him the note of support I intended to send to you

Stevie2wheels

No sympathy for RLJrs. Abide by law, but most of all why would you you want to give motorists and other road users the chance to bleat on about how we are above the law and disrespectful.

I always stop at red lights and will continue to do so.

Hell mend you if you don't!

ilm_zero7

on the road
apologies people - a case of Blackberry thumb sent the right message of support to the wrong person

So after decades of impeccable cycling you think its cool to run a red light, and a pedestrian crossing - a great shame you dont have that experience as a pedestrian or have seen the damage it does when a pedestrian gets hit

thank goodness we have cameras on crossings now and your days are numbered - i hope you get caught before you trash someone else's life

on the road

Felt so Good wrote:

i note I accidentally sent him the note of support I intended to send to you

You sure about that? Have a look here

ilm_zero7

absolutely sure - and timely that this news breaks today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 577612.stm

what chances this rider had a quick look around and thought he was safe before breaking the law and killing the pedestrian

Paul E

Felt so Good wrote:

absolutely sure - and timely that this news breaks today

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 577612.stm

what chances this rider had a quick look around and thought he was safe before breaking the law and killing the pedestrian

I can't see where it mentions anything about the cyclist involved running a red light so trying to link that story to this thread is a bit wrong if you ask me!

on the road

Felt so Good

By the way, I never go through a pedestrian crossing when there's people crossing, but of course you already know that because I've told you that twice but you refuse to read, so here it is again for the third time. Just incase you're very short sighted I've made it bigger.

on the road wrote:

Felt so Good wrote:

in my pedestiran commute in London and am raging when cyclists run the red light on a pedestiran crossing - sometimes i even feel the draught! - and I get sworn at..... well all i will say is one day those cyclists might just get a nudge from a heavy briefcase and they will be off

Well if there's people crossing, then those cyclists should stop.

When I come up to a pedestrian crossing with the red light showing and people crossing, I will slow down hoping it will clear by the time I get there (they sometimes even change to green by the time I get there with slowing down) and then I will go through once there's no one crossing, if by the time I get there and there are people still crossing then I will stop, I have no intention of going through while there are people still crossing.

As for other lights, I will slow down and check the coast is clear and then go, if not I will stop. It must be stressed that I only do that on less busy roads, not on busy roads, and definately not where the road crosses a dual carriageway.

There, can you read it now. :roll:

on the road

Felt so Good obviously only sees what he wants to see and is blind to everything else.

So Felt so Good is a hypocrite, he says how it’s bad to through red lights while he clearly goes through red lights himself.

Why else would he send me a private message of support, I don’t believe that you sent it to the wrong person by mistake, how hard is it to type the wrong username in to the box?

He obviously wasn't expecting me to reveal his private message of support, and now that I have he's trying to backtrack, coming up with allsorts of lame excuses, even blaming his mobile phone, what a pr*ck.

It just doesn’t wash; you’ve revealed yourself for what you truly are, a hypocrite.

Got anymore excuses?

furrag

I jumped my first one in years this morning about 07:20. My excuse? I thought it was really badly phased. About 200 yards from it, it turned green. I approached confident it wouldn't change, and was going downhill about 20mph when the light turned amber. I was 15 yards from it. It didn't matter to me that I was the only one on the roads at the open junction, but rather that slamming on the brakes (it was wet too) and having to unclip really quickly would have posed more of a danger. As a result I just wheeled through a second or so after it turned red. I think there is some give-and-take with a little risk assessment, though it could be argued I shouldn't approach lights at such speeds. I wouldn't have had the chance to had it been later, or any other day of the week though.

On the ride home I stopped at two sets of lights in quick succession while I saw a cycling group of about seven pass through both once the pedestrians had crossed. Bad darts, I thought.

lukasran

on the road, you seem a bit unhinged. please stop your strange kind of logic. your giving us decent RLJ's a bad name.

Inovache

'on the road', I read your post with some dismay. It always baffles me how cyclists try to justify their actions. By your rationale, is it therefore okay for motorists to jump reds if it is safe to proceed?

You should also show a little more regard for the other road users you may be putting in danger e.g. the motorist you one day don't see as you jump the red light, who then has to take evasive action to avoid you and ploughs into some other unlucky soul.

As long as some cyclists continue to have your attitude, then we'll all be tarred with the same brush I'm afraid.

Inovache

Furrag, I have done this myself. My thought was, I should have been going at such a speed that I was able to stop. None of us are perfect. We all make errors of judgement.

But there is no way of excusing deliberate red light jumping.

ilm_zero7

on the road

I explained my sending error openly - i dont jump red lights, never said I did - I think SheffSimon had you well and truly summed up, but others have commented since and drawn the same conclusion, ........says it all really

you just carry on in your own wee world

oldwelshman

Inovache wrote:

Furrag, I have done this myself. My thought was, I should have been going at such a speed that I was able to stop. None of us are perfect. We all make errors of judgement.

But there is no way of excusing deliberate red light jumping.

So now you say it was ok for you to go through a red light as you could not stop in time? Was that not deliberate then? You cannot have it both ways.
What about junctions with two broken lines and a stop sign, do you stop and unclip at those also as technically you should do.
Where's the common sense these days?

furrag

oldwelshman wrote:

So now you say it was ok for you to go through a red light as you could not stop in time? Was that not deliberate then? You cannot have it both ways.
What about junctions with two broken lines and a stop sign, do you stop and unclip at those also as technically you should do.
Where's the common sense these days?

Ah, a pedant with a penchant for being eristic!

You have to work with the scenario for which each and every case is individual.

Inovache

oldwelshman wrote:

Inovache wrote:

Furrag, I have done this myself. My thought was, I should have been going at such a speed that I was able to stop. None of us are perfect. We all make errors of judgement.

But there is no way of excusing deliberate red light jumping.

So now you say it was ok for you to go through a red light as you could not stop in time? Was that not deliberate then? You cannot have it both ways.
What about junctions with two broken lines and a stop sign, do you stop and unclip at those also as technically you should do.
Where's the common sense these days?

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well. What I describe was myself trying to compensate for my mistake. I have made errors of judgement in the past that have put myself, others or both at some risk. I have done this as a cyclist, a motorist and a pedestrian. I am not justifying my actions and try not to make the same mistake twice.

acidstrato

personally I slowdown/stop for 99% of red lights, 100% for pedestrians or motorists or those which are for traffic control

but how many of you perfect role models would stop and wait at a set of temporary traffic lights 20 yards apart on a 5mile straight, in the middle of nowhere, on a sunday when no workmen are even there and your all alone?

yeah, right

i dont see a big deal in going after a crossing has been used and no other pedestrians intend to use it

phreak

acidstrato wrote:

personally I slowdown/stop for 99% of red lights, 100% for pedestrians or motorists or those which are for traffic control

but how many of you perfect role models would stop and wait at a set of temporary traffic lights 20 yards apart on a 5mile straight, in the middle of nowhere, on a sunday when no workmen are even there and your all alone?

yeah, right

i dont see a big deal in going after a crossing has been used and no other pedestrians intend to use it

Burn him. :twisted:

Stone Glider

I do not RLJ nor ride on pavements but I did today :shock: Beside the A5 for about a mile. I wasn't going to play in the traffic on a straight stretch in open coutry, better and safer, to ride on some smooth, empty tarmac until I could turn left and leave the traffic behind.

Everyone has to make judgements all the time.