Traffic Light Etiquette
Comments
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Down/Up wrote:STEFANOS4784 wrote:The onl;y way i'd ever RLJ is if no-one else was anywhere for miles around......
Really? What if a heavy goods vehicle was on your left and you were concerned the driver hadn't/couldn't see you. Would you really just stand there and get squashed?
I'd get at least to level with the cab, because I know I can easily accelerate far faster from a standing start than the HGV could.0 -
what an interesting thread !
I'm not sure where you all cycle but my commute West to Central London with moon size craters, white van cut up artists, u-turning cabbies and homicidal bus drivers and clueless mopeds is a war zone were the sharpest and fittest survive !
Pissing off other drivers is a pretty feeble reason in my book for perhaps not looking aftter your own safety by sometimes getting ahead at lights ie Water Tower roundabout at Shepherds Bush (complete with 8 inch crater) or Hangar Lane.
It would be interesting to see how many accidents are caused by RLJers on bikes ?
I've seen quite a few accidents in last year including a car going through a red light hitting a cyclists maybe 4ft in the air and a whole manner of other dreadful driving mainly recently by drivers on phones.
I think everyone has to find their own way of safely travessing the awful roads, yes even sometimes 'wandering through a light', not stopping at pelican if no-one there etc.
I would condemn those that weave through crossing when pedestrians are crossing.
Perhaps all these attitudes are caused by everyone being in too much of a hurry and maybe we all need to slowdown and relax a little !0 -
Really Reddraggon? You convinced you can get clipped in and away at full speed 100% of the time? Better of getting a few metres in front of the cabin and insuring you are not in the drivers blind spot, even better trust your own judgement and make the left turn against the red when you are sure its safe for you, rather than trusting that the driver has seen you, is indicating etc.0
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Easily. You can pretty much beat every car off the line so an HGV would be easy. Also, if you're that worried why don't you just wait till it's pulled away then slot in behind it?? It's such a bad excuse for RLJ'ing!Down/Up wrote:You convinced you can get clipped in and away at full speed 100% of the time? Better of getting a few metres in front of the cabin and insuring you are not in the drivers blind spot, even better trust your own judgement and make the left turn against the red when you are sure its safe for you, rather than trusting that the driver has seen you, is indicating etc.0 -
Down/Up wrote:Really Reddraggon? You convinced you can get clipped in and away at full speed 100% of the time? Better of getting a few metres in front of the cabin and insuring you are not in the drivers blind spot, even better trust your own judgement and make the left turn against the red when you are sure its safe for you, rather than trusting that the driver has seen you, is indicating etc.
It takes me fracking ages to clip with Look Keos, but I only need one pedal clipped in to get away.Down/Up wrote:even better trust your own judgement
I always do trust my own judgement thanks0 -
roger merriman wrote:on the road wrote:If it's early in the morning and all the roads are empty, then you can't annoy any motorists by going through a red light if there's no one there to annoy.
true but at that time any car that does arrive is likely to blast though on green not look for a RLJ bike.
by the time you've slowed to check might as well stop and wait
I just don't understand why some people never read posts properly but instead add a twist to it.Down/Up wrote:STEFANOS4784 wrote:The onl;y way i'd ever RLJ is if no-one else was anywhere for miles around......
Really? What if a heavy goods vehicle was on your left and you were concerned the driver hadn't/couldn't see you. Would you really just stand there and get squashed?
Like roger merriman not reading my post properly when I'm talking about there being no traffic on the roads; a car can't blast through on green if there's no traffic on the roads.
Like Down/Up not reading STEFANOS4784's post properly; there can't be a heavy goods vehicle on the road if there's no one anywhere for miles.
:roll:0 -
on the road wrote:Like Down/Up not reading STEFANOS4784's post properly; there can't be a heavy goods vehicle on the road if there's no one else anywhere for miles.
:roll:
You yourself have got confused in that case.0 -
Then enlighten me.redddraggon wrote:on the road wrote:Like Down/Up not reading STEFANOS4784's post properly; there can't be a heavy goods vehicle on the road if there's no one else anywhere for miles.
:roll:
You yourself have got confused in that case.0 -
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on the road wrote:roger merriman wrote:on the road wrote:If it's early in the morning and all the roads are empty, then you can't annoy any motorists by going through a red light if there's no one there to annoy.
true but at that time any car that does arrive is likely to blast though on green not look for a RLJ bike.
by the time you've slowed to check might as well stop and wait
I just don't understand why some people never read posts properly but instead add a twist to it.Down/Up wrote:STEFANOS4784 wrote:The onl;y way i'd ever RLJ is if no-one else was anywhere for miles around......
Really? What if a heavy goods vehicle was on your left and you were concerned the driver hadn't/couldn't see you. Would you really just stand there and get squashed?
Like roger merriman not reading my post properly when I'm talking about there being no traffic on the roads; a car can't blast through on green if there's no traffic on the roads.
Like Down/Up not reading STEFANOS4784's post properly; there can't be a heavy goods vehicle on the road if there's no one anywhere for miles.
:roll:
you don't know 100% there is no traffic do you? so you have to check and to check properly you need to slow down, which rather defeats the point of RLJ. the number of junctions that one could blast though the reds at 3am and check the road is low, that is my point.
your talking about a fairly improbable event, not impossible I grant you, but not likely at all.0 -
I do know 100% that there is no traffic, because I looked. You don't know what the roads are like that I ride on, you don't know what the junctions are like where I ride, you don't know what the the visibility of the junctions are like where I ride from where you are.roger merriman wrote:you don't know 100% there is no traffic do you? so you have to check and to check properly you need to slow down, which rather defeats the point of RLJ. the number of junctions that one could blast though the reds at 3am and check the road is low, that is my point.
your talking about a fairly improbable event, not impossible I grant you, but not likely at all.
Yes I do have to slow down, but it doesn't defeat the point of RLJ when the lights are on red for ages, or even permenantly stuck on red like some lights that I go through.
And as for being out a 3am, that's irrelevant because I'm usually out for the count by then.0 -
squigs wrote:I cant believe there are arguments for jumping red lights!
The rules are simple, you stop if they are red!
Don't expect to ride on the roads safely with cars, jump red lights, then moan if car drivers are disrespectful. I go out of my way to thank car drivers for the patience they show, giving way to me, and generally driving safe around me.
Then idiots on here try and justify jumping a red light and winding up car drivers.
Having experience of Driving cars, Motor Bikes, and our beloved bicycles I know all it would do is wind other motorists up.
Do us all a favour and stop it.
There are too many sites devoted to slagging us off, don't give them fuel!
How can it piss off drivers if there are none there?
I often ride late evenings for training and come to lights which are red and I am turning left without a car or pedestrain in sight, so in that situation I go.
I do not jump lights when crossing trafic though.
Anyway do you really think that if every cyclist, including the ones that jump all lights, start waiting that drivers would suddenly respect us and not cut us off in corners, on roundabouts etc?0 -
roger merriman wrote:you don't know 100% there is no traffic do you? so you have to check and to check properly you need to slow down, which rather defeats the point of RLJ. the number of junctions that one could blast though the reds at 3am and check the road is low, that is my point.
your talking about a fairly improbable event, not impossible I grant you, but not likely at all.
Ah........So what is the definition of RLJ'ing to everyone on here? To me it means I have crossed over a junction and have passed a red light but not at the same speed I was cycling along at before hand. I do not jump red lights in order to keep my speed up.
I always slow right down, as said before, to walking pace speed or less to check for any dangers / hazards. If I'm reading correctly some of you are saying that RLJ'ers continue along at 18+mph through lights? Now that is a tad insane yes. That doesnt show much common sense which is why I mentioned it in my previous post.
I suppose the best way to describe what I do is cross the road / junction like a pedestrian would only without getting off of my bicycle. That said I dont cross like all pedestrians as some of those have a death wish and make some crazy decisions with regards as to when they cross
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oldwelshman wrote:Anyway do you really think that if every cyclist, including the ones that jump all lights, start waiting that drivers would suddenly respect us and not cut us off in corners, on roundabouts etc?
It will never happen. People are in to much of a rush to get from A to B these days. You and your bike are potentially the cause that they may be a whole 2minutes later arrivng at their destination. You also dont pay road tax or have to be insured whilst still using the public highway. This is the common arguments spouted by those that have that hatred of bike riders on the road,as I'm sure you all know anyway. Some drivers have just built up such a hatred of cyclists that they will do nigh on 'anything' to get past you as quickly as possible even if the manouver isnt safe. Of course you then just have those that are completely oblivious to the fact that we dont all cycle at 3mph and cant judge our speed for toffee queue them trying to nip out in front of you or misjudging overtaking you when the turning they wish to take is only a little way down the road.
As on any form of two wheeled transport riding defensively and taking the approach that everyone else is out to knock you off is the key to survival!0 -
I dont fall into the goodie goodie camp, and its not the legality but the frustration and disrespect it causes motorists - it breads contempt for cyclists and has to be bad
in my pedestiran commute in London and am raging when cyclists run the red light on a pedestiran crossing - sometimes i even feel the draught! - and I get sworn at..... well all i will say is one day those cyclists might just get a nudge from a heavy briefcase and they will be off
its about respect - there are rules if cyclists undermine them we all looseBullet1 wrote:As someone who is fairly new to commuting (17 miles into Manchester) I have been know to 'jump' the occasional red light especially when turning left- as and when I'm not putting myself or any other road user/pedestrian in danger. Not all the time but occasionally.
Whilst this is obviously still a traffic offence is it 'acceptable' or am I some who gives all law abiding cyclists a bad name.http://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR20 -
Awallace - totally agree
if we all show contempt for the rules we will have major problems - what is so wrong with waiting - and take the lane - get safe and seen in front of the cars, and if you do go skirting down the kerb in the blind spot of lorries you bring the risk upon yourselfhttp://veloviewer.com/SigImage.php?a=3370a&r=3&c=5&u=M&g=p&f=abcdefghij&z=a.png
Wiliers: Cento Uno/Superleggera R and Zero 7. Bianchi Infinito CV and Oltre XR20 -
Well if there's people crossing, then those cyclists should stop.Felt so Good wrote:in my pedestiran commute in London and am raging when cyclists run the red light on a pedestiran crossing - sometimes i even feel the draught! - and I get sworn at..... well all i will say is one day those cyclists might just get a nudge from a heavy briefcase and they will be off
When I come up to a pedestrian crossing with the red light showing and people crossing, I will slow down hoping it will clear by the time I get there (they sometimes even change to green by the time I get there with slowing down) and then I will go through once there's no one crossing, if by the time I get there and there are people still crossing then I will stop, I have no intention of going through while there are people still crossing.
As for other lights, I will slow down and check the coast is clear and then go, if not I will stop. It must be stressed that I only do that on less busy roads, not on busy roads, and definately not where the road crosses a dual carriageway.0 -
A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.
Sad.0 -
What's the point of coming in here if you don't have anything to add?SheffSimon wrote:A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.
Sad.0 -
+1 on motorists with an irresistible urge to overtake cyclists, it's an odd thing. On my hill repeat training loop there is a sharp downhill, super steep but single lane and some nasty drain hole covers that if you hit them at speed would have you off so I at least secondary if not primary on the narrowest and steepest bits. The speed limit on this stretch is 30 and I'm easily approaching that,yet motorists still for some reason have to get past me, often performing ridiculously dangerous overtaking maneuvres into on-coming traffic to get ten feet in front of me (then usually slamming on their brakes to avoid hitting the traffic in front), bizarre, counter-productive wasteful and moreover dangerous behaviour. Same thing on left hand turns, they have to get past you so they can take that turn ahead of you even if they all but left hook you, they can't slow down a tad for a few seconds to safely take the turning.0
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mask of sanity wrote:
Easily. You can pretty much beat every car off the line so an HGV would be easy. Also, if you're that worried why don't you just wait till it's pulled away then slot in behind it?? It's such a bad excuse for RLJ'ing!Down/Up wrote:You convinced you can get clipped in and away at full speed 100% of the time? Better of getting a few metres in front of the cabin and insuring you are not in the drivers blind spot, even better trust your own judgement and make the left turn against the red when you are sure its safe for you, rather than trusting that the driver has seen you, is indicating etc.
+1 Only a tool waits on the LHS of an HGV. If you can't get ahead, wait behind. It's not difficult.- 2023 Vielo V+1
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Don't know what the fuss is about personally.
95% of motorists speed or use mobile phones in the car. In this day and age there are not many drivers that follow th high way code to the letter so are hardly ones that can be judgemental.
Pedestrians use their right of way to halt traffic in roads so they can cross where they like. Pedestrians also keep walking across roads when the lights have turned green so who are we to cast moralistic or other views on what's acceptable.
I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right but on a bike you can just as well get off at a red light and walk through (on the pavement) and then legally get back on. Personally I don't care what the *general view* of cyclists is as drivers would still get cheesed of if you did this as you'd be making progress when they can't.
At the end of the day do what you like as long as it doesn't endanger anyone else.0 -
on the road wrote:
What's the point of coming in here if you don't have anything to add?SheffSimon wrote:A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.
Sad.
I made my own comments near the start of this thread, and a lot of the posts since have been about reasons why cyclists shouldnt have to wait at red lights, many of which have been yours.
You have also stated that you ride thru ped crossings if the lights are still on red but the way is clear - the only reason you would do that is that you cant be arsed to wait, not for any reasons of safety, piss poor IMO. You are f****** idiot who will end up knocking someone down on a crossing. I would guess that you are so confident in your own abilities that you think this will never happen.
I hate seeing cyclists RLJ and I make my opinions known to them if they come sailing past me at lights.0 -
Very nice :roll:SheffSimon wrote:on the road wrote:
What's the point of coming in here if you don't have anything to add?SheffSimon wrote:A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.
Sad.
I made my own comments near the start of this thread, and a lot of the posts since have been about reasons why cyclists shouldnt have to wait at red lights, many of which have been yours.
You have also stated that you ride thru ped crossings if the lights are still on red but the way is clear - the only reason you would do that is that you cant be arsed to wait, not for any reasons of safety, wee-wee poor IMO. You are f****** idiot who will end up knocking someone down on a crossing. I would guess that you are so confident in your own abilities that you think this will never happen.
I hate seeing cyclists RLJ and I make my opinions known to them if they come sailing past me at lights.
I don't give a toss what you think, if it pis$es you off, so what.
By the way, I've been cycling 30+ years and never knocked anyone over in that time, I would hazard a guess that I'm more experienced then you in these matters. Come back in 30 years when you have more experience.0 -
SheffSimon wrote:You have also stated that you ride thru ped crossings if the lights are still on red but the way is clear - the only reason you would do that is that you cant be arsed to wait, not for any reasons of safety, wee-wee poor IMO. You are f****** idiot who will end up knocking someone down on a crossing. I would guess that you are so confident in your own abilities that you think this will never happen.
I hate seeing cyclists RLJ and I make my opinions known to them if they come sailing past me at lights.
Your statement here is true about me. I dont do it for any safety reasons etc. I stop check and carry on when and if it is Safe to do so. Just as if I was crossing the road on foot. I struggle to understand why I'd knock someone down though? I'm not blind after all. I am also not going to stop for a pedestrian crossing when some little oink has pressed the button just for the fun of it and legged it off.
You do comment on cyclists sailing past though which does to me read as they dont actually stop / slow or anything and just hurtle through the junction. The only time I've seen cyclists doing this is when they are on the pavement whizzing across pedestrian crossings. Maybe all the cyclists on my routes are good boys and girls
My idea would be that every road has a cycle lane on the LH side. At the end of this lane at junctions is a stop sign and solid white line (means stop). Cyclists once they have stopped and checked all is clear along the route they intend to take could continue on their way irrespective of traffic light colour. This in effect makes it no different to crossing the road on foot, apart from you cycle across. The only small problem would be policing it and those wee wee takers that just hammer through flat out would continue to do so whatever.0 -
Down/Up wrote:STEFANOS4784 wrote:The onl;y way i'd ever RLJ is if no-one else was anywhere for miles around......
Really? What if a heavy goods vehicle was on your left and you were concerned the driver hadn't/couldn't see you. Would you really just stand there and get squashed?
You're correct, much safer to plow through red lights at any sign of any other traffic "in case they didn't see me" :roll:
I can jump out the way of a vehicle if i'm sttod still, my bike may get squashed but then his insurance can pay for another 8)winter beast: http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff016.jpg
Summer beast; http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... uff015.jpg0 -
on the road wrote:
Very nice :roll:SheffSimon wrote:on the road wrote:
What's the point of coming in here if you don't have anything to add?SheffSimon wrote:A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.
Sad.
I made my own comments near the start of this thread, and a lot of the posts since have been about reasons why cyclists shouldnt have to wait at red lights, many of which have been yours.
You have also stated that you ride thru ped crossings if the lights are still on red but the way is clear - the only reason you would do that is that you cant be arsed to wait, not for any reasons of safety, wee-wee poor IMO. You are f****** idiot who will end up knocking someone down on a crossing. I would guess that you are so confident in your own abilities that you think this will never happen.
I hate seeing cyclists RLJ and I make my opinions known to them if they come sailing past me at lights.
I don't give a toss what you think, if it pis$es you off, so what.
By the way, I've been cycling 30+ years and never knocked anyone over in that time, I would hazard a guess that I'm more experienced then you in these matters. Come back in 30 years when you have more experience.
Yep, you win, Ive only been riding and racing for the last 27yrs.
Shame that somebody with your "experience" still hasnt a clue. The fact that you havent knocked anyone over doesnt make what you do you right.
Cant be bothered with this s**** any more.0 -
I think the arguments on here for not going through red lights are ridiculous. I'll try and sum them up, and explain why they're wrong:
1) "It's the law" - You may blindly follow the law, but I am capable of using some common sense and judgment. IMO the law is idiotic - cars and bicycles are not the same in any way - they are different sizes, travel at different speeds, and one has the potential to do a hell of a lot more damage than the other. If it was so dangerous to turn left on a red light on a bike, why the hell does it work so effectively in countries that are more cyclist friendly than here, namely the Netherlands.
2) "It upsets car drivers" - To be honest I couldn't give a damn about car drivers who have a problem with cyclists. If you think all cyclists stopping at red lights will stop them hating cyclists, you are incredibly naive. And I say this as a car driver myself, but one that understands the differences between cars and bikes. I'm not going to put my self at risk to appease some moron clogging up the roads with his car.
3) "It's dangerous" - No. It works extremely effectively in other countries, ie. the Netherlands. Arguably it is safer than getting stuck in a queue of traffic with aggressive motorists and HGV drivers. A competent cyclist capable of employing common sense will be able to RLJ perfectly safely.0 -
37 years actually.SheffSimon wrote:on the road wrote:
Very nice :roll:SheffSimon wrote:on the road wrote:
What's the point of coming in here if you don't have anything to add?SheffSimon wrote:A thread full of endless excuses and justifications about why some of us cant be bothered to wait at red lights.
Sad.
I made my own comments near the start of this thread, and a lot of the posts since have been about reasons why cyclists shouldnt have to wait at red lights, many of which have been yours.
You have also stated that you ride thru ped crossings if the lights are still on red but the way is clear - the only reason you would do that is that you cant be arsed to wait, not for any reasons of safety, wee-wee poor IMO. You are f****** idiot who will end up knocking someone down on a crossing. I would guess that you are so confident in your own abilities that you think this will never happen.
I hate seeing cyclists RLJ and I make my opinions known to them if they come sailing past me at lights.
I don't give a toss what you think, if it pis$es you off, so what.
By the way, I've been cycling 30+ years and never knocked anyone over in that time, I would hazard a guess that I'm more experienced then you in these matters. Come back in 30 years when you have more experience.
Yep, you win, Ive only been riding and racing for the last 27yrs.
Shame that somebody with your "experience" still hasnt a clue. The fact that you havent knocked anyone over doesnt make what you do you right.
Cant be bothered with this s**** any more.0 -
+1fermion wrote:I think the arguments on here for not going through red lights are ridiculous. I'll try and sum them up, and explain why they're wrong:
1) "It's the law" - You may blindly follow the law, but I am capable of using some common sense and judgment. IMO the law is idiotic - cars and bicycles are not the same in any way - they are different sizes, travel at different speeds, and one has the potential to do a hell of a lot more damage than the other. If it was so dangerous to turn left on a red light on a bike, why the hell does it work so effectively in countries that are more cyclist friendly than here, namely the Netherlands.
2) "It upsets car drivers" - To be honest I couldn't give a damn about car drivers who have a problem with cyclists. If you think all cyclists stopping at red lights will stop them hating cyclists, you are incredibly naive. And I say this as a car driver myself, but one that understands the differences between cars and bikes. I'm not going to put my self at risk to appease some moron clogging up the roads with his car.
3) "It's dangerous" - No. It works extremely effectively in other countries, ie. the Netherlands. Arguably it is safer than getting stuck in a queue of traffic with aggressive motorists and HGV drivers. A competent cyclist capable of employing common sense will be able to RLJ perfectly safely.
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