Arrest warrant issued for landis

124

Comments

  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    5 pages and counting on one of the most uninspiring and boring characters in this sport. Shame you can't put so much effort into much more interesting topics.

    Since you view yourself as above the riff-raff of the forum, with your high post count and all, I'm sure you can tell us what we should and shouldn't be discussing. So, why don't you start a topic on something much more interesting?

    Wouldn't that be anything with anything with Contador in it?
    Volta Algarve for instance? :wink:

    Where's Moray on this? Conspicuous by his absence. Dennis is ploughing a lonely furrow.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Quite so Blazing, I for one find hte idea of a disgraced Tour winner stripped of his title being indicted for attempting to hack the computers of those who uncovered his cheating (or at least paying somebody to do it) far more interesting than the Volta a Algarve.

    Likewise, Bernie's theory that Armstrong had him juiced as revenge was more interesting in and of itself than the Tour of Qatar.

    Five pages of "boring and uninspiring" and yet he stil read and commented on them.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    And I think that the poor man has been hung drawn and quartered for an offence which, in the scheme of professional cycling was relatively minor. I despise drug taking (not necessarily, or at all drug takers), but think that the man has paid and paid and paid, partially through accepting very bad advice. I wish him some luck in the future. itt doesn't at the moment sound like he could afford a plane ticket which for a champion cyclist, who rode with great courage, is a bad bad thing to see.
    Dan
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Quite so Blazing, I for one find hte idea of a disgraced Tour winner stripped of his title being indicted for attempting to hack the computers of those who uncovered his cheating (or at least paying somebody to do it) far more interesting than the Volta a Algarve.

    Five pages of "boring and uninspiring" and yet he stil read and commented on them.

    LOFL. I see you fail to mention the pure climbers thread and pick up on th VaA thread (which is still more interesting in my book...some of the top riders battling it out in a climbers 5-day stage race). Reason being is that it makes your previous comment look stupid.

    Btw I didn't read anything on this thread apart from the first few comments.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Quite so Blazing, I for one find hte idea of a disgraced Tour winner stripped of his title being indicted for attempting to hack the computers of those who uncovered his cheating (or at least paying somebody to do it) far more interesting than the Volta a Algarve.

    Five pages of "boring and uninspiring" and yet he stil read and commented on them.

    LOFL. I see you fail to mention the pure climbers thread and pick up on th VaA thread (which is still more interesting in my book...some of the top riders battling it out in a climbers 5-day stage race). Reason being is that it makes your previous comment look stupid.

    Btw I didn't read anything on this thread apart from the first few comments.

    Hate to disagree, but I didn;t look at your previous comment until long after the moment had passed because I was working.

    Your pure climbers thread is interesting. I believe I have contributed to it. Well done, sir.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • CakeHag1
    CakeHag1 Posts: 24
    Call me slow, obtuse, ignorant, whatever..... but tell me if what I am deducing here is accurate-

    French Lab that ran the tests now alleges hacking occurred related to the data supplied from the tests
    >French Lab does investigation of alleged hacking and determines the 'hacker'
    > hacker, now in custody, provides the information that Arnie paid for this service
    > based on this, France issues warrant for Baker which is not answered by Baker
    >Landis is now issued warrant by same french authorities and warrant is also unanswered
    >

    If the above is correct, here's what I still don't get- Why? Why was the lab hacked in the first place? Am I correct in thinking it was for information that the Landis 'team' (so to speak) was unable to obtain in another way?
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    CakeHag1 wrote:
    Why was the lab hacked in the first place? Am I correct in thinking it was for information that the Landis 'team' (so to speak) was unable to obtain in another way?
    Nobody knows. Until Bake or Landis feels like explaining themselves then we'll struggle to know how they were involved in this or what they know.
  • pontarlier_pete
    pontarlier_pete Posts: 195
    Flandis's twitter outburst last night was pretty spectacular! There's a man bearing a few grudges! Hopefully they will fester, and grow, and then be released in an epic outburst detailing everything from USPS to... well... Austin, Texas!
  • CakeHag1
    CakeHag1 Posts: 24
    Thanks Kléber - I guess I am wondering because is it that there was no other way for Landis to access the information? I would never support doping because it is a form of cheating. But I often feel these guys are left with no defenses once they test positive.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    CakeHag1 wrote:
    I would never support doping because it is a form of cheating. But I often feel these guys are left with no defenses once they test positive.
    Yes, it is difficult to put up a credible 'defense' when it has been proven that you are guilty! That's why riders like Landis resort to barefaced denial, running a media and Internet based propaganda offensive, trying to slander those running the anti-doping program, appeal to narrow-minded xenophobia (usually directed against 'The French'), employ sleasy lawyers who try to exploit any technical loophole they can find, resort to bullying, intimidation, threats and so on...
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Yes, it is difficult to put up a credible 'defense' when it has been proven that you are guilty! That's why riders like Landis resort to barefaced denial, running a media and Internet based propaganda offensive, trying to slander those running the anti-doping program, appeal to narrow-minded xenophobia (usually directed against 'The French'), employ sleasy lawyers who try to exploit any technical loophole they can find, resort to bullying, intimidation, threats and so on...

    Still banging that drum, eh?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    iainf72 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Yes, it is difficult to put up a credible 'defense' when it has been proven that you are guilty! That's why riders like Landis resort to barefaced denial, running a media and Internet based propaganda offensive, trying to slander those running the anti-doping program, appeal to narrow-minded xenophobia (usually directed against 'The French'), employ sleasy lawyers who try to exploit any technical loophole they can find, resort to bullying, intimidation, threats and so on...
    Still banging that drum, eh?
    Well, there is a lot of it about... (Pity that the most rabid comments have now been deleted!).

    ...someone hacked into the labs computer?? makes you wonder how safe any o the results are (positive or neg) and if this was an excuse or plan to discredit another american from yet again winning the tour de FRANCE.

    ...Seems to me if the French are so upset about those alleged hackings taking place and alledged documents being used in someone's defense, said documents should be presented to the public so that they can be judged as well. I'm not a cyclist but a cyclist's wife and I am very tired of the French. I wouldn't step foot in their countries if you paid me.

    ...France is more crooked than any doper out there. The TdeF even has that grinning cheater Richard Virenque handing out polka-dot jerseys on the podium. Gross.

    ...Tha saga continues. The French are worried he may race again in Europe and don't want him with in their borders. Sad state of affairs.

    ...It's as if the french courts are saying 'You are convicted, you dirty non-french person and our data proves it, but you cannot see the data and since you saw the data anyway we arrest you for seeing the data, you non-french pig-dog.'

    Of course some do see though the whole scam...

    A lot of anti-French hate here, but Landis was proven in court to be a doper, and almost every member of Bruyneel's US Postal has either been caught, admitted, or accused of doping on subsequent teams. Sorry, but after years of Landis and Hamilton apologists and conspiracy theorists, the plain truth is that US cyclists, like all pro cyclists worldwide, have a credibility problem. The implied problems with the French testing labs is nothing but interpreted lawyer-speak from the Landis camp, and it is all fabricated to deflect the fact that he was simply caught.

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/ ... dis_105186
  • CakeHag1
    CakeHag1 Posts: 24
    So help me out here some more - in the UK, if you are charged with a crime, are you then also able to access every piece of evidence used to draw those charges against you? In the US you are. The thing about the Floyd case, (and just to prequalify, I have never been on the profloyd bandwagon or open to that 'propaganda') that has made so many people give him the benefit of the doubt that otherwise would not have, is that Landis did not have complete and full access to those reports. That being said, if it's proven the lab was, indeed, hacked by Landis or a supporter, and the purpose was to obtain information they could not otherwise, alrighteethen.

    I remember a case here, against procyclist Scott Moninger. I tend to always remember this case when the doping allegations begin. Moninger knew he hadn't doped but his bloodwork was positive. Being that it occurred here, he had full access to it and his medical advisors were able to use that to determine that it was exceedingly low dose of banned substance, consistent with contamination. As it turns out, his positive was due to cross contamination with an amino suppliment.

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2002/11/news/scott-moningers-statement-regarding-his-positive-drug-test_3235

    If I recall, Moninger still got suspended. But I and many I know have never considered him a cheat. The reason for that is that he was able to fully review and explore all information, materials and data related to his test. I've never believed Landis was able to do this. So I have never drawn an opinion on his guilt. And back to what I was originally trying to say here - I am not going to cast a stone in that direction if the only way the information could be obtained was by hacking the lab computer system. It disturbs me far more that this action would be taken because access wasn't automatically or readily given.

    Please do feel free to correct me where ever I am off, factually, on this-
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    BikingBernie wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Yes, it is difficult to put up a credible 'defense' when it has been proven that you are guilty! That's why riders like Landis resort to barefaced denial, running a media and Internet based propaganda offensive, trying to slander those running the anti-doping program, appeal to narrow-minded xenophobia (usually directed against 'The French'), employ sleasy lawyers who try to exploit any technical loophole they can find, resort to bullying, intimidation, threats and so on...
    Still banging that drum, eh?
    Well, there is a lot of it about... (Pity that the most rabid comments have now been deleted!).

    ...someone hacked into the labs computer?? makes you wonder how safe any o the results are (positive or neg) and if this was an excuse or plan to discredit another american from yet again winning the tour de FRANCE.

    ...Seems to me if the French are so upset about those alleged hackings taking place and alledged documents being used in someone's defense, said documents should be presented to the public so that they can be judged as well. I'm not a cyclist but a cyclist's wife and I am very tired of the French. I wouldn't step foot in their countries if you paid me.

    ...France is more crooked than any doper out there. The TdeF even has that grinning cheater Richard Virenque handing out polka-dot jerseys on the podium. Gross.

    ...Tha saga continues. The French are worried he may race again in Europe and don't want him with in their borders. Sad state of affairs.

    ...It's as if the french courts are saying 'You are convicted, you dirty non-french person and our data proves it, but you cannot see the data and since you saw the data anyway we arrest you for seeing the data, you non-french pig-dog.'

    Of course some do see though the whole scam...

    A lot of anti-French hate here, but Landis was proven in court to be a doper, and almost every member of Bruyneel's US Postal has either been caught, admitted, or accused of doping on subsequent teams. Sorry, but after years of Landis and Hamilton apologists and conspiracy theorists, the plain truth is that US cyclists, like all pro cyclists worldwide, have a credibility problem. The implied problems with the French testing labs is nothing but interpreted lawyer-speak from the Landis camp, and it is all fabricated to deflect the fact that he was simply caught.

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/ ... dis_105186

    D*mn Bernie, you're gonna have a stroke, ulcer, or heart attack or all three if you don't let go of this obsession. It's only bike racing. You need to change hobbies. Why not try and see what kind of dirt you can dig up about pro pool players? Get you mind off Lance for a while. Do ya good. Change of pace, ya know?
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    CakeHag1 wrote:
    The thing about the Floyd case ... blah, blah, blah lots of irrelevent smoke and mirriors...
    Landis had exogenous testosterone in his body, and was probably blood-doped to the gills as well. His use of testosterone (used in order to aid recovery) was established beyond all doubt by the IRMS tests run on his samples. The Court of Arbitration for sport (no 'French' involved...) ruled against him after examining in great detail the possibility that the IRMS tests were flawed in some way. Fraud Landis is a proven doper. End of story.

    And to back up my earlier claim that he is also a c**t... This is what he said about Greg Lemond

    '...if he ever opens his mouth again and the word Floyd comes out, I will tell you all some things that you will wish you didn't know and unfortunately I will have entered the race to the bottom which is now in progress. For the record, I don't know Greg, and have no more respect for Greg than I have for people who go through life blaming others for all of their problems. You are not a victim of others Greg, you are a pathetic human who believes that if others didn't cheat (not sure about you) you would be the President and all the peasants would bow to your command...

    http://trustbut.blogspot.com/2006/11/tu ... up_28.html
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    dennisn wrote:
    D*mn Bernie, you're gonna have a stroke, ulcer, or heart attack or all three if you don't let go of this obsession. It's only bike racing. You need to change hobbies. Why not try and see what kind of dirt you can dig up about pro pool players? Get you mind off Lance for a while. Do ya good. Change of pace, ya know?
    Er, sorry about being the one to introduce you to what is commonly known as ' reality', but the thread is about Fraud Landis... :roll:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    BB, I just glanced over those quotes. Thanks for putting them up like that. So many narrow minded ignorant people out there. Probably the same suckers that donated money for him to fight a stupid legal battle. The guy is a loser.

    BB, killing you guys as usual with his quotes.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    BikingBernie wrote:
    CakeHag1 wrote:
    The thing about the Floyd case ... blah, blah, blah lots of irrelevent smoke and mirriors...
    Landis had exogenous testosterone in his body, and was probably blood-doped to the gills as well. His use of testosterone (used in order to aid recovery) was established beyond all doubt by the IRMS tests run on his samples. The Court of Arbitration for sport (no 'French' involved...) ruled against him after examining in great detail the possibility that the IRMS tests were flawed in some way. Fraud Landis is a proven doper. End of story.

    And to back up my earlier claim that he is also a c**t... This is what he said about Greg Lemond

    '...if he ever opens his mouth again and the word Floyd comes out, I will tell you all some things that you will wish you didn't know and unfortunately I will have entered the race to the bottom which is now in progress. For the record, I don't know Greg, and have no more respect for Greg than I have for people who go through life blaming others for all of their problems. You are not a victim of others Greg, you are a pathetic human who believes that if others didn't cheat (not sure about you) you would be the President and all the peasants would bow to your command...

    http://trustbut.blogspot.com/2006/11/tu ... up_28.html

    Doesn't sound any worse than what you, I, and more than a few others have said about each other in these forum pages. You dislike, well, pretty much everything and everybody and Floyd dislikes Greg and probably a few others. What's the difference???
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    frenchfighter wrote:
    BB, I just glanced over those quotes. Thanks for putting them up like that. So many narrow minded ignorant people out there. Probably the same suckers that donated money for him to fight a stupid legal battle. The guy is a loser.

    BB, killing you guys as usual with his quotes.

    Now I know I've trolled more than a few times in my forum career, so I think I'm qualified to spot one. Just a word or two of advice ff. Use a bit more subtlety. :wink:
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    dennisn wrote:
    Doesn't sound any worse than what you, I, and more than a few others have said about each other in these forum pages. You dislike, well, pretty much everything and everybody and Floyd dislikes Greg and probably a few others. What's the difference???
    For one I have never had anyone confide in me about their childhood sexual abuse, and then tried to use that knowledge against them to protect me from exposure as a doper...
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    BikingBernie wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Doesn't sound any worse than what you, I, and more than a few others have said about each other in these forum pages. You dislike, well, pretty much everything and everybody and Floyd dislikes Greg and probably a few others. What's the difference???
    For one I have never had anyone confide in me about their childhood sexual abuse, and then tried to use that knowledge against them to protect me from exposure as a doper...

    You say that you haven't done that but we don't know for sure. Do we? :oops: :oops:
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    frenchfighter wrote:
    BB, killing you guys as usual with his quotes.

    all we need now is that graph of you know who's blood values and this thread would be complete!
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    ShinyHelmut wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    BB, killing you guys as usual with his quotes.
    all we need now is that graph of you know who's blood values and this thread would be complete!
    Now then, let's keep things on topic ... Fraud Landis in this case. :wink:
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    frenchfighter wrote:
    BB, I just glanced over those quotes. Thanks for putting them up like that. So many narrow minded ignorant people out there. Probably the same suckers that donated money for him to fight a stupid legal battle. The guy is a loser.

    So selected comments from a bunch of nutters commenting on the story online is representative of Landis's defense strategy?

    Maybe you haven't had your debating class yet?
    frenchfighter wrote:
    BB, killing you guys as usual with his quotes.

    I am, literally, hooting with laughter - this is the best one yet.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    iainf72 wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Yes, it is difficult to put up a credible 'defense' when it has been proven that you are guilty! That's why riders like Landis resort to barefaced denial, running a media and Internet based propaganda offensive, trying to slander those running the anti-doping program, appeal to narrow-minded xenophobia (usually directed against 'The French'), employ sleasy lawyers who try to exploit any technical loophole they can find, resort to bullying, intimidation, threats and so on...

    Still banging that drum, eh?

    It's ironic, isn't it, that someone whose posts almost all contain something bashing someone or something American should pull the xenophobia card.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Why the bile for Cakehag as well? All she did was ask some questions to clarify her understanding.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    frenchfighter wrote:

    BB, killing you guys as usual with his quotes.

    ROFL.

    BB probably turns people into Lance fans.

    For someome who has so much to say, why didn't he submit a question for Lance when Procycling did their interview with him?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    CakeHag1 wrote:
    So help me out here some more - in the UK, if you are charged with a crime, are you then also able to access every piece of evidence used to draw those charges against you? In the US you are.

    Tell that to the blokes in the orange jumpsuits...........
  • SunWuKong
    SunWuKong Posts: 364
    CakeHag1 wrote:
    So help me out here some more - in the UK, if you are charged with a crime, are you then also able to access every piece of evidence used to draw those charges against you? In the US you are. The thing about the Floyd case, (and just to prequalify, I have never been on the profloyd bandwagon or open to that 'propaganda') that has made so many people give him the benefit of the doubt that otherwise would not have, is that Landis did not have complete and full access to those reports. That being said, if it's proven the lab was, indeed, hacked by Landis or a supporter, and the purpose was to obtain information they could not otherwise, alrighteethen.

    ;;;

    Please do feel free to correct me where ever I am off, factually, on this-[/url]

    http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2776315
    "Within the past two weeks, arbitrators granted a defense request for additional discovery -- access to medical and technical documents related to Landis' case -- that previously had been denied by USADA. The request not only asked for documents but also asked that USADA provide written reasons for any denial of documents."

    Landis quote:
    "Under the USADA process, I have repeatedly been denied critical evidence, I have been denied the opportunity to depose critical witnesses and I have been denied a jury of my peers. Everything they have done, including this continued denial of discovery, the retesting of already cleared samples and the subsequent leak of scientifically unsupported results to L’Equipe, simply reconfirms every contention that my team and I have been making about USADA’s ‘win at all costs’ mentality. Their behaviour is nothing short of criminal."

    It seems from a quick google that Landis and Suh are claiming they were denied access to the testing process, presumably relating to LLND and to documents by the USADA process not 'the French'.

    However, he tested positive and those findings have been upheld by USADA and CAS. Also US Federal court dismissed his claim that the CAS decision was unfair due to a conflict of interests and also his costs claim.

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/06/road/floyd-landis-loses-cas-appeal_79029

    It seems to me that some people are happy to accept Landis' claims yet not USADA findings or the CAS decision and turning it into an anti-French thing. Having a bit of a read around I can't see exactly what Landis is claiming he didn't have access to. The velonews article covers the story pretty well.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    edited February 2010
    RichN95 wrote:
    It's ironic, isn't it, that someone whose posts almost all contain something bashing someone or something American should pull the xenophobia card.
    Personally, I don't think that the sort of things I tend to 'bash' such as the excesses of right-wing Republicanism, religious fundamentalism and so on, neither amount to xenophobia nor define what 'Americanism' means.

    Anyhow, here is one of my personal 'American heroes'....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Kxq9uFDes

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNgDmKjc7Ao

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