Arrest warrant issued for landis

dougzz

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 517006.stm

Take it up with the BBC.

I actually said 'the hacker allegation' on the assumption it was for some kind of conspiracy to have the hacking done on his behalf, I didn't assume he did it himself. If he could hack the AFLD systems himself I'd have more respect for him. Actually I really couldn't have less respect for him so that's not much of a statement.

iainf72

dougzz wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/8517006.stm

Take it up with the BBC.

I know, it's just lazy journalism.

Floyd being some sort of hacker makes a juicer story than "Floyds doctor pays a dodgy hacker USD4000 to steal documents"

BikingBernie

LangerDan wrote:

One Pantani was one too many

True enough, but from what I can see Pantani was a vulnerable, sensitive and rather lost soul, not a self-serving, manipulative, lying c**t...

Of course he could redeem himself. All he has to do is come clean and tell all he knows about USP, Armstrong, motorcycles with refrigerated panniers and the rest...

---

Landis pedaling uphill against accusers
By Mark Zeigler
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
July 8, 2007

DeCanio says this:

“Clinger told me that while he was racing in 2002 on the United States Postal Service Pro Cycling Team he used HGH, testosterone and EPO along with Floyd Landis. David told me, and I quote, 'Landis used more HGH than anyone he had ever witnessed before. He would use entire vials of HGH and he is crazy.' ”

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/sports ... andis.html

dennisn

BikingBernie wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

One Pantani was one too many

True enough, but from what I can see Pantani was a vulnerable, sensitive and rather lost soul, not a self-serving, manipulative, lying c**t...

Of course he could redeem himself. All he has to do is come clean and tell all he knows about USP, Armstrong, motorcycles with refrigerated panniers and the rest...

So if you die from a drug overdose you're "a vulnerable, sensitive, and rather lost soul"?
But if you use drugs and don't die you're "a self serving, manipulative, lying c**t????
Makes sense to me. Glad you cleared that up.
As for coming clean and telling all. I think you're out of luck. This conspiracy is way too big for you to even come close to understanding. And in the large scheme of things you, like myself, don't amount to a hill of beans. It doesn't really matter what you or I want.

Garry H

BikingBernie wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

One Pantani was one too many

True enough, but from what I can see Pantani was a vulnerable, sensitive and rather lost soul, not a self-serving, manipulative, lying c**t...
l

Did he become "vulnerable, sensitive and rather lost" before or after he was caught cheating though?

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

The best comment by far was the "his legs were fresher because he bonked the day before" line.
I actually think he has been punished enough.[/quote]

One Pantani was one too many,

Does this sympathy apply to all the other drug abusers who have died from overdoses or drug related complications??? Or is it just the cycling ones???? Are they the only ones for whom there is sadness??? The rest is all just good riddance????? This really isn't addressed to you LD. More to everyone.

Kléber

Each case is individual. Pantani seems to have been exploited by those he trusted, Pantani was busted for doping. Perhaps the same is true for Landis but it's also different.

Like I said above, we can say Floyd's served his ban and not put too much pressure on him. But he's still got a legal case to answer, he's been summoned to explain himself in a court and the very least he could do is submit some written statement, it's highly likely he had nothing to do with the hacking and that this was something done by Baker and his associates. Landis is probably just guilty of surrounding himself with plonkers, now that's bad judgement but it's not a crime.

crown_jewel

I think the Pantani line confuses two different things. To my knowledge, Pantani died of cocaine abuse, not performance-enhancing drugs (although he of course used those as well). Pantani may well have had mental health issues that contributed to his drug abuse. Those issues affect lots of people and bike racers are not immune to them. That is not what I was on about. I hate those who cheat and will not accept the fact they have been caught. I just don't think you can redeem yourself unless you admit what you have done and commit not to do it again. The current penalties permit Vinokourov, Basso and the others to rest for 2 years (or less) and come back saying it's all over, nothing to see here. The hell there isn't.

iainf72

BikingBernie wrote:

Of course he could redeem himself. All he has to do is come clean and tell all he knows about USP, Armstrong, motorcycles with refrigerated panniers and the rest...

You mean redeem himself to you? If you've already decided some IM's constitute evidence of this, why do you need a filthy lying American capitalist cheat Franco-phobe like Floyd to confirm it for you?

dennisn

Kléber wrote:

Each case is individual. Pantani seems to have been exploited by those he trusted, Pantani was busted for doping. Perhaps the same is true for Landis but it's also different.

Like I said above, we can say Floyd's served his ban and not put too much pressure on him. But he's still got a legal case to answer, he's been summoned to explain himself in a court and the very least he could do is submit some written statement, it's highly likely he had nothing to do with the hacking and that this was something done by Baker and his associates. Landis is probably just guilty of surrounding himself with plonkers, now that's bad judgement but it's not a crime.

I'm having a hard time going along with the idea that these world class, really driven, riders let their lives be run by "handlers", for lack of a better word. I tend to think of Mohammad Ali. Now he had all kinds of handlers and hangers on but I really doubt that too many of them were able to tell him what to do. Not that he always made really smart decisions in his life. Just a thought. I mean, who tells Lance what to do??? Lance, probably. I tend to tell myself what to do. Well, after my wife tells me.

BikingBernie

Garry H wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

One Pantani was one too many

True enough, but from what I can see Pantani was a vulnerable, sensitive and rather lost soul, not a self-serving, manipulative, lying c**t...

Did he become "vulnerable, sensitive and rather lost" before or after he was caught cheating though?

Whatever, when Landis was caught, some rather different personal qualities came to the fore...

BikingBernie

iainf72 wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

Of course he could redeem himself. All he has to do is come clean and tell all he knows about USP, Armstrong, motorcycles with refrigerated panniers and the rest...

You mean redeem himself to you? If you've already decided some IM's constitute evidence of this, why do you need a filthy lying American capitalist cheat Franco-phobe like Floyd to confirm it for you?

:roll: I meant redeem himself in the Biblical sense, after all isn't he supposed to be the God-fearing member of some Christian cult?

dennisn

BikingBernie wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

Of course he could redeem himself. All he has to do is come clean and tell all he knows about USP, Armstrong, motorcycles with refrigerated panniers and the rest...

You mean redeem himself to you? If you've already decided some IM's constitute evidence of this, why do you need a filthy lying American capitalist cheat Franco-phobe like Floyd to confirm it for you?

:roll: I meant redeem himself in the Biblical sense, after all isn't he supposed to be the God-fearing member of some Christian cult?

How do you know he hasn't made peace with his god????
Oh, I forgot, he must not have because he hasn't told you about it yet.

iainf72

BikingBernie wrote:

:roll: I meant redeem himself in the Biblical sense, after all isn't he supposed to be the God-fearing member of some Christian cult?

I don't think he's a particularly religious man.

But you're suggesting a sky-god might be interested in a mortal shopping Lance and USPS? Interesting

Do you think the UCI allowed him to get caught as revenge for that time he tried to get a contract dispute sorted out and had a lot of difficultly with the UCI?

BikingBernie

dennisn wrote:

How do you know he hasn't made peace with his god????

I would say that 'making peace' has to be mutual, and isn't there something in the big book of Christian fairytales about 'not bearing false witness'.

BikingBernie

iainf72 wrote:

Do you think the UCI allowed him to get caught as revenge for that time he tried to get a contract dispute sorted out and had a lot of difficultly with the UCI?

More likely he was shopped by Armstrong's mob in a follow up to the 'blood bag down the sink' incident. A lot of those who show 'disloyalty' to Armstrong seem to have similar things happen to them

iainf72

BikingBernie wrote:

More likely he was shopped by Armstrong's mob in a follow up to the 'blood bag down the sink' incident. A lot of those who show 'disloyalty' to Armstrong seem to have similar things happen to them

Except Armstrong has made peace with Landis by then and he was rumoured to be returning to Discovery.

dennisn

BikingBernie wrote:

dennisn wrote:

How do you know he hasn't made peace with his god????

I would say that 'making peace' has to be mutual, and isn't there something in the big book of Christian fairytales about 'not bearing false witness'.

If, as you say it's a book of fairy-tales then bearing false witness is only a catch phrase at best. In any case people make their peace as they feel they have to or they simply don't bother. In either case I doubt you're involved or consulted and neither are any of us.
He will do what he will do, but I can tell that the suspense is killing some people. Is this whole thing going to come together???? Will more of the mighty fall??? Will all of THIS
fizzle out like a fuse hitting a puddle of water???? Will the great cloud hanging over cycling dump a bunch of rain and lightning or will the sun break through????? Or will it just be forever partly cloudy with a chance of scattered rain showers and occasional lightning strikes???

crown_jewel

Lots of good questions Dennis. I think that until the penalties are more severe we will continue to see cheating. Right now, the cost/benefit favors cheating for those inclined to do so.

LangerDan

dennisn wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

The best comment by far was the "his legs were fresher because he bonked the day before" line.
I actually think he has been punished enough.[/quote]

One Pantani was one too many,

Does this sympathy apply to all the other drug abusers who have died from overdoses or drug related complications??? Or is it just the cycling ones???? Are they the only ones for whom there is sadness??? The rest is all just good riddance????? This really isn't addressed to you LD. More to everyone.

Jaysus, Dennis - you're in rare form today. Is this a last minute rush before you give up posting for Lent?

Does my sympathy apply to "all other drug abusers"? Who knows. I don't know the circumstances of the demise of all other drug abusers. I didn't realise that sympathy for all was a pre-requisite to expressing an opinion that paying with your life for breaching the rules of sport was a little asymmetric.

(I don't subscribe to the hagiography that surrounds Pantani and rather suspect that if he were still around, riding for some two-bit ProConti team, we wouldn't be tip-toeing around his legacy the way we do.)

DaveyL

BikingBernie wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Do you think the UCI allowed him to get caught as revenge for that time he tried to get a contract dispute sorted out and had a lot of difficultly with the UCI?

More likely he was shopped by Armstrong's mob in a follow up to the 'blood bag down the sink' incident. A lot of those who show 'disloyalty' to Armstrong seem to have similar things happen to them

Eh? He was caught because "Armstrong's mob" shopped hm? And here was me thinking it was because he won Stage 17, the stage winner gets tested, and they found an abnormal T/E ratio.

Oh well, another mystery cleared up. Perhaps we can coin "Howard's Razor" as the diametric opposite to Occam's Razor...

dennisn

LangerDan wrote:

dennisn wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

The best comment by far was the "his legs were fresher because he bonked the day before" line.
I actually think he has been punished enough.[/quote]

One Pantani was one too many,

Does this sympathy apply to all the other drug abusers who have died from overdoses or drug related complications??? Or is it just the cycling ones???? Are they the only ones for whom there is sadness??? The rest is all just good riddance????? This really isn't addressed to you LD. More to everyone.

Jaysus, Dennis - you're in rare form today. Is this a last minute rush before you give up posting for Lent?

I hope so. I get way too carried away at times. Well, most of the time I should say.
Rambling on and on. Like you said - Jaysus.

DaveyL

Regarding the "health checks" introduced at the 1999 Giro (most teams were outraged at this and did not want to take part. Mapei were notable in their support), from Rendell's book:

"Andrea Tafi [Mapei], the Italian champion, added, 'They can come every day and test me at home.'"

"At the start of stage 8, Andrea Tafi had been subjected to a stream of insults from other riders and, most notably, from Marco. At the back of the group, Tafi was reduced to tears."

Remind you of anyone, Howard? Maybe Armstrong and Simeoni?

iainf72

Arnie comments

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/02/ ... um=twitter

iainf72

Crown Jewel wrote:

Lots of good questions Dennis. I think that until the penalties are more severe we will continue to see cheating. Right now, the cost/benefit favors cheating for those inclined to do so.

More severe penalties don't mean squat if you don't catch 'em. If there is a good chance of being caught, people will quit doing it. Lifetime ban with a 98% chance of getting away with it = doping. 2 year ban with a 30% chance of getting away with it = a lot less doping

crown_jewel

Yes, more effective testing is important. So is raising the price of getting caught.

frenchfighter

5 pages and counting on one of the most uninspiring and boring characters in this sport. Shame you can't put so much effort into much more interesting topics.

disgruntledgoat

frenchfighter wrote:

5 pages and counting on one of the most uninspiring and boring characters in this sport. Shame you can't put so much effort into much more interesting topics.

Since you view yourself as above the riff-raff of the forum, with your high post count and all, I'm sure you can tell us what we should and shouldn't be discussing. So, why don't you start a topic on something much more interesting?

frenchfighter

disgruntledgoat wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

5 pages and counting on one of the most uninspiring and boring characters in this sport. Shame you can't put so much effort into much more interesting topics.

Since you view yourself as above the riff-raff of the forum, with your high post count and all, I'm sure you can tell us what we should and shouldn't be discussing. So, why don't you start a topic on something much more interesting?

See: Pure Climbers thread for an example. That is my idea of pure cycling magic.

In addition, I passed no comment on the people contributing to this thread, so don't say I was. I simply mentioned the subject which is quite different.

richard wants a baum

Hardly surprising as there is not much racing to talk about ( well some racing but the TDU didnt seem to stir up much discussion and the same with the races on now). Dont worry we will all be discussing hows doping and whos not as soon as we get into the races that actually matter