Wiggins : Sky not "most hated"

frenchfighter

Ok thanks, makes sense, I wasn't aware of it. I wont go down the prologue route as I know that point is one you mentioned at every opportunity last year.

flanners1

iainf72 wrote:

Nothing questioning or negative in the press about Sky. Why is that? Is it because they're nice and squeaky and to be adored? Or is it because he who controls the spice, controls the universe. The spice being the media.

Sky are in a position where they don't need the usual media because they are the media. So this makes them pretty immune to criticism. "Oh, British journo, you don't like us, well, we'll not talk to you ever again"

That's a massive over simplification but Team Sky have no demonstrated any kind of openness yet. There is a huge about of stuff out there but it's tightly controlled.

.............a la Armstrong and his media strategies then? I think the level of info and features put out into the public domain by Sky is a refreshing change. It is informative and interesting, most team websites are dull with the same old cloak and dagger bull.

andyxm

I find it curious that Sky's ethics in terms of how they signed some of the riders are in question, I'd have thought that given some of the ethical standards observed in other aspects of pro cycling that people would welcome in another team that is trying to ride clean rather than carp on as if they had physically kidnapped riders from other teams.

le_patron

andyxm wrote:

I find it curious that Sky's ethics in terms of how they signed some of the riders are in question, I'd have thought that given some of the ethical standards observed in other aspects of pro cycling that people would welcome in another team that is trying to ride clean rather than carp on as if they had physically kidnapped riders from other teams.

Agree. And shock horror, an investor trying to get return on investment...whatever next.

msw

Liking "to podium" as a verb, up there with "to medal". I don't know about Wiggins but this year I'm hoping that Cavendish can jersey.

Rodrego Hernandez

I wonder if their popularity overseas is in some way connected to the current situation with their team bus?

iainf72

andyxm wrote:

I find it curious that Sky's ethics in terms of how they signed some of the riders are in question, I'd have thought that given some of the ethical standards observed in other aspects of pro cycling that people would welcome in another team that is trying to ride clean rather than carp on as if they had physically kidnapped riders from other teams.

Ethics are ethics. You can't behave ethically in one area and think that compensates for a lack of ethics elsewhere.

Regarding the "clean" piece - One of the things that concerns some people is the management of the team and their various backgrounds (I'll gloss over having a rider who used to be coached by Cecchini for now). Why not address those concerns rather than talk about inner chimps and rose petals on the bus floor. After all, ignoring elephants in the room tends to bite you on the backside in pro cycling.

The Prodigy

I really can't see anything to criticise Wiggins or Sky about in this article.

The criticism from Marc Madiot is pathetic, concentrate on your own team mate.

Garmin got Wiggins 4th place at the tour, TTT and VDV on the Colombiere aside, it was all Wiggo.

Not wanting to be a Tour contender who only appears in June, where exactly does he criticise anyone else for doing that???? Yet some of you guys (FF) have jumped on this for some reason. He says he wants race days under his belt so why have you then sen fit to rip into him for winning nothing of note, he never said he had!!!!!

FF - your love affair with Contadola is becoming tiresome, comparing everyone to the best GT rider in the world, by some distance, all the time doesn't really prove alot. We know he is the best, he's proved. You keep banging on about it doesn't make him more of a champion. It makes you more of a..................

Rodrego Hernandez

iainf72 wrote:

andyxm wrote:

I find it curious that Sky's ethics in terms of how they signed some of the riders are in question, I'd have thought that given some of the ethical standards observed in other aspects of pro cycling that people would welcome in another team that is trying to ride clean rather than carp on as if they had physically kidnapped riders from other teams.

Ethics are ethics. You can't behave ethically in one area and think that compensates for a lack of ethics elsewhere.

Regarding the "clean" piece - One of the things that concerns some people is the management of the team and their various backgrounds (I'll gloss over having a rider who used to be coached by Cecchini for now). Why not address those concerns rather than talk about inner chimps and rose petals on the bus floor. After all, ignoring elephants in the room tends to bite you on the backside in pro cycling.

Exactly - no amount of PR bullshit can gloss over the fact that there are some very dubious characters involved in the team.

When you strip away the publicity, they seem to be no more a British team than Barloworld who were also British registered, it's just that the hard work of the British track team is what got this team its money rather than anything the team has done.

If I were a member of the track team I'd be pretty pissed off that I was on a lottery grant still while there's a team of pros on double my wages on the back of my results.

andyxm

iainf72 wrote:

Ethics are ethics. You can't behave ethically in one area and think that compensates for a lack of ethics elsewhere.

Quite, so perhaps the other people/teams should keep quiet given that most people would think that being good at PR and aggressive in the way your recruit riders are small beer compared to systemic cheating.

Kléber

The Prodigy wrote:

Garmin got Wiggins 4th place at the tour, TTT and VDV on the Colombiere aside, it was all Wiggo.

Apart from the train Garmin set up on the road to Verbier*, plus Zabriskie's help on the Ramaz, plus the work to pull up through the bunch on the way to Ventoux etc etc. Now other teams could have done this too but I think Wiggins had better help available than he'll get at Sky. Lofvkwist is handy uphill but who else at Sky will be there for him in the mountains, Barry and Froome?

* Watch from 3:00 onwards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo4uPsm_Ur0

frenchfighter

The Prodigy: I suggest you read the quote I posted from the article reagarding June etc...it couldn't be clearer.

As for the rest of what you say: yawn; no further comment.

frenchfighter

I know I couldn't have got fourth without the help those guys gave me.

Wiggins

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brad-wi ... h-team-sky

frenchfighter

Kléber wrote:

* Watch from 3:00 onwards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo4uPsm_Ur0

Long time since I've seen that...always a pleasure. 9.36 is why no one will come close.

Kléber

Anyway, there's far too much bull. One of the depressing aspects of British sport is that journalists are always looking for rivalries and "attack" quotes. So we get tales of war between Millar and Wiggins when in reality they get along well.

Now you can't have sport without rivalry and competition. Sometimes there can be genuine hatred between people - Cungego and Simoni, Hinault and LeMond - but this is rare. But somehow the media seem to be piling on the Sky vs Garmin nonsense. It's tiring me out.

iainf72

andyxm wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Ethics are ethics. You can't behave ethically in one area and think that compensates for a lack of ethics elsewhere.

Quite, so perhaps the other people/teams should keep quiet given that most people would think that being good at PR and aggressive in the way your recruit riders are small beer compared to systemic cheating.

So you're saying Vaughters is allowed to talk and no one else is?

I like the Podium Cafe article "Sky : More Millwall than Man U"

The Prodigy

Kléber wrote:

Apart from the train Garmin set up on the road to Verbier*, plus Zabriskie's help on the Ramaz, plus the work to pull up through the bunch on the way to Ventoux etc etc. Now other teams could have done this too but I think Wiggins had better help available than he'll get at Sky. Lofvkwist is handy uphill but who else at Sky will be there for him in the mountains, Barry and Froome?

* Watch from 3:00 onwards http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo4uPsm_Ur0

Revelation! A good team did what a good team are supposed to do. Any other good team would have done the same. It was Wiggo who had to go and hold that 4th place, they did their job no more no less, I don't see why that makes them responsible for his placing.
Sure you could say he wouldn't have done so well without them but tell me any rider who can win the Tour on his own.

As for the help he will get at Sky, since we have barely seen anything from them how the hell do you know what they are going to do for him? I bet you thought Wiggo would be lucky to make top 50 in the tour this time last year so what anyone `thinks` may happen is usualy pretty useless.

The Prodigy

frenchfighter wrote:

The Prodigy: I suggest you read the quote I posted from the article reagarding June etc...it couldn't be clearer.

As for the rest of what you say: yawn; no further comment.

On the contrary it isn't clear at all! He doesn't name anyone, he doesn't even say that there are current riders that turn up just in June.

You just couldn't wait to interpret what he said in whichever way suited you. You then launch into a load of rubbish about how he performed poorly at the beginning of the year when all he had said is he wanted to get plenty of race days in.

Just like your campaign against LA you look for any opportunity to spout your drivel.

As for that yawn, I suggest you get more sleep, I had to be in bed by ten when I was still at school

amc

Why doesn't everyone hold their fire a bit and see how Sky get on - the season is only a race and a half old.
You cannot blame Garmain and its riders being a bit peeved with Wiggins, likewise you cannot blame Wiggins for taking a once in a lifetime deal to go Sky.
Forget the evil Murdoch conspiracy, Sky are obviously going to plug their own team, but as for the rest of the media - they will report what their readers/viewers are interested in.
Yeh the website is pr slick but it makes a change and gives fans, and perhaps especially fans who are newer to the sport and not on this website a chance to interact and find out a bit more about the tea.
It seems premature to 'hate' Sky. I don't suppose you can start up a team from scratch (especially in the UK which doesn't have a long strong tradition of road racing at very top level) without ruffling a few feathers.
I for one like the look of the kit and the bikes - and i'm a sucker for flag waving and cheering on Brits in anything, let alone cycling. But let's wait and see how they perform for the rest of the season. Good luck to them i say.

Moomaloid

amc wrote:

Why doesn't everyone hold their fire a bit and see how Sky get on - the season is only a race and a half old.
You cannot blame Garmain and its riders being a bit peeved with Wiggins, likewise you cannot blame Wiggins for taking a once in a lifetime deal to go Sky.
Forget the evil Murdoch conspiracy, Sky are obviously going to plug their own team, but as for the rest of the media - they will report what their readers/viewers are interested in.
Yeh the website is pr slick but it makes a change and gives fans, and perhaps especially fans who are newer to the sport and not on this website a chance to interact and find out a bit more about the tea.
It seems premature to 'hate' Sky. I don't suppose you can start up a team from scratch (especially in the UK which doesn't have a long strong tradition of road racing at very top level) without ruffling a few feathers.
I for one like the look of the kit and the bikes - and i'm a sucker for flag waving and cheering on Brits in anything, let alone cycling. But let's wait and see how they perform for the rest of the season. Good luck to them i say.

+1! Well said!

Kléber

Exactly. The talk of hate and bitter rivalry is tiring, I want to see some racing, rather than quotes bouncing backwards and forwards through the media.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

Exactly. The talk of hate and bitter rivalry is tiring, I want to see some racing, rather than quotes bouncing backwards and forwards through the media.

Can we talk about it when Garmin, Katusha or HTC block them in races? :P

iainf72

Vaughters holds no malice

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3015/ ... Nation.com)

The comments on 2010 are interesting. And on Astana soft pedalling.

archaeo

The way I see it is that if Cycling is to become more popular amongst the British armchair fans then this is one very good way of achieving it. Everyone knows people who have no interest at all, despite being well versed in football, rugby and cricket - the main comments you hear are 'they are all on drugs' or they might know of Lance.

But if the presence of a decent British rider in a British based team increases interest and understanding/apppreciation and if more people take up riding then more might - might drive theur cars more sympathetically - very tenuous I know

Yes the lanes are going to be full of people in replica kit - but most parks and bits of rough ground are full of people in Utd and Chelsea kit playing 5 a side - I see no difference.

To fanataics and lifelong followers of the sport its all a bit OTT and maybe iffy in places but you never know some good might come out of it

DaveyL

And a lot of cycling fans - whether they admit it or not - identify with the sport, at least partly, *because* of its minority status and probably don't want it to become more mainstream, with everything that brings with it. I suspect this is part of the cause of the backlash.

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

And a lot of cycling fans - whether they admit it or not - identify with the sport, at least partly, *because* of its minority status and probably don't want it to become more mainstream, with everything that brings with it. I suspect this is part of the cause of the backlash.

That's me. I like it being a European centric thing with its own traditions and what not.

DaveyL

Did you mean "centric" or "cynic"?

frenchfighter

iainf72 wrote:

Vaughters holds no malice

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/3015/ ... Nation.com)

The comments on 2010 are interesting. And on Astana soft pedalling.

The soft pedlalling bit is pretty hard...

iainf72

DaveyL wrote:

Did you mean "centric" or "cynic"?

Centric. As in round.

The Prodigy

Kléber wrote:

Exactly. The talk of hate and bitter rivalry is tiring, I want to see some racing, rather than quotes bouncing backwards and forwards through the media.

There is more animosity on this forum than in the press from what I can see. Some people on here can't wait to see them fail.