Oh my god i'm in love!!!

rjsterry

StuAff wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with the view that a gold Colnago Master's a bit naff. Nicer (much nicer) in other colours. As for Colnago's carbon models, 'Meh', frankly. A C50 owner I know says that as happy as he is with it (and it is a thing of beauty indeed), it's not as nicely put together as the C40 he had before (frame broke in a RTA), and less elegant. He thinks the newer models are no better than rebadged other makes (and most of the frames are being built in the same factories, of course). I agree- they just look like everyone else's...
For me, off-the-peg carbon would be an Orbea, BMC, or a Storck. Bespoke carbon- you know who. Or for metals an Enigma, Van Nicholas or equivalent. Plus a Moulton.

Indeed. I was reading a report from one or other bike show, where the author was saying some fairly similar things. I'll try and dig it out.

rjsterry

I think it was a report from the European Handbuilt Bike Expo last year. I seem to remember it was raving about some lugged steel frame and how it was far superior to the much more famous Colnago frames.

Some very nice pictures on Flickr and here:

http://www.e-h-b-e.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=57&lang=en

rjsterry

And here:

http://www.frameforum.org/forum3/index.php?action=gallery;cat=11

rjsterry

Quite the nicest seatpost clamp I have seen in a while.



EDIT: This and a lot of other tasty stuff was made by Ulrich Vogel

http://www.vogel-rahmenbau.de/

il_principe

dilemna wrote:

ATGNI comes to mind.

Why? Sounds like snobbery to me.

stuaff

Il Principe wrote:

dilemna wrote:

ATGNI comes to mind.

Why? Sounds like snobbery to me.

+1. I'm well aware that some might not consider me 'good enough' for the Viner I've got, let alone the one I'll buy myself sooner or later. SFW, as the Anti-Nowhere League put it. My money, I love the bike, it makes me want to get out riding further and faster, so I do. My faster is still slower than lots of others, who cares? If anyone has a problem with that, it's their problem not mine.

rjsterry

Quite! And if I want to be a rust-fetishizing luddite then ditto!

lost_in_thought

I have a soft spot for fancy lugs... :oops:

Clever Pun

rjsterry wrote:

Quite the nicest seatpost clamp I have seen in a while.



EDIT: This and a lot of other tasty stuff was made by Ulrich Vogel

http://www.vogel-rahmenbau.de/

that is a thing of beauty... that reminds me must do mine on the mills

jedster

Some riders will want/need some modification, the top sprinters usually, and anyone with a very wierd body shape that can't be made fit the standard bike, but it's not a line the teams like going down either, it gives them extra logistical headaches and you don't carry a spare bike on the team car for every rider. The manufactuers like to keep this quiet too.

You see that was my impression too.

I read a piece by the designer for Giant who claimed to be the first person to use compact geometry on road bikes. He said that their entire sponsired pro team were well fitted on only three frame sizes! (I realise he may be partially talking his own book).

BTW, I don't see that marketing consideration force pros onto standard frames. It would be pretty easy to paint frames so that they looked the same on TV. Most pro cricketers use custom bats just dressed up to look like off the shelf models...

The implication is that if a custom frame does not make a difference to (nearly all) top professionals who are trying to squeeze the last bit of efficiency and needing to look after their bodies over a whole TdF, isn't it a bit unlikely that they offer much to recreational cyclists?

Compact frames with a choice of stem length and angle and bar shape offer a huge range of adjustment. I think bike shops are being a little cretaive with the truth if they say they can't fit you on an off the shelf frame.

So I guess custom frames are like swiss mechanical watches, bought because they are lovely and a bit special rather than for true performance reasons.

J

UndercoverElephant

I'll let you know, I guess. I'm currently building my own custom frame out of Bamboo (using lugs which look remarkably like those posted above).

The only real difference between my BeOne and my supposed "ideal" size frame is that the seat-post on the BeOne is about a centimetre too long. What the hell, I lowered the saddle. I'm really quite sure it's not that different.

Edit to add:

attica

Il Principe wrote:

dilemna wrote:

ATGNI comes to mind.

Why? Sounds like snobbery to me.

What is "ATGNI"?

UndercoverElephant

Attica wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

dilemna wrote:

ATGNI comes to mind.

Why? Sounds like snobbery to me.

What is "ATGNI"?

All the gear, no idea.

lost_in_thought

jedster wrote:

So I guess custom frames are like swiss mechanical watches, bought because they are lovely and a bit special rather than for true performance reasons.

J

Yep, that's true in my case. Sure, it's very nice to have a frame that's designed around me, and I would have even more spacers if I'd gone for an off-the-peg bike, but no, I didn't need a custom frame.

attica

Il Principe wrote:

dilemna wrote:

ATGNI comes to mind.

Why? Sounds like snobbery to me.

In which case +1 (thanks UE)

By the way, does anybody else remember an old Raleigh racer that used to have the same black and gold colour scheme as the Colnago?

symo

StuAff wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with the view that a gold Colnago Master's a bit naff. Nicer (much nicer) in other colours. As for Colnago's carbon models, 'Meh', frankly. A C50 owner I know says that as happy as he is with it (and it is a thing of beauty indeed), it's not as nicely put together as the C40 he had before (frame broke in a RTA), and less elegant. He thinks the newer models are no better than rebadged other makes (and most of the frames are being built in the same factories, of course). I agree- they just look like everyone else's...
For me, off-the-peg carbon would be an Orbea, BMC, or a Storck. Bespoke carbon- you know who. Or for metals an Enigma, Van Nicholas or equivalent. Plus a Moulton.

Got to disagree Simon at Colin Lewis loves his Master Series, Colin Lewis rides a C40 and thinks it's a cracking bike. Neither are anything like other manufacturers bikes the tubes are made for Colnago only; as are the lugs. Simon says the EPS is truly a thing of beauty in the flesh but he can't afford one. Said he do me a good deal with my MDCC membership takking 10% off though ... . . .. . . . . .

attica

Eau Rouge

jedster wrote:

The implication is that if a custom frame does not make a difference to (nearly all) top professionals who are trying to squeeze the last bit of efficiency and needing to look after their bodies over a whole TdF, isn't it a bit unlikely that they offer much to recreational cyclists?

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/p ... ster-24857
Hincapie rides for a bike manufacturer, so I don't know what difference that makes, but his only modification is to to the seat clamp. He's the same size and weight as me (thinking he has less fat though) so it's interesting to compare his bike to mine.
His is also not a compact frame.

He might not ride that at Paris-Roubaix. That race is where the one-off specials come out (Ballan's Wilier that had 'cross seatstays for example) but it would be fine for most of the rest of the season. It really isn't about the bike, once you're past a certain standard.

jrduquemin

itboffin wrote:

Someone quickly tell me why it would be bad to spend £4500 on this, because I can't think why :shock:

Felts are terrible right, but oh oh arhhhh!

I would happily spend upwards of £4k on that bike. Still prefer the F1 SL though, and it's lighter :-)

Annoyingly, the F1 SL frame is NOT available in this cursed country!! ARGH!!!!!!!

stuaff

symo wrote:

StuAff wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with the view that a gold Colnago Master's a bit naff. Nicer (much nicer) in other colours. As for Colnago's carbon models, 'Meh', frankly. A C50 owner I know says that as happy as he is with it (and it is a thing of beauty indeed), it's not as nicely put together as the C40 he had before (frame broke in a RTA), and less elegant. He thinks the newer models are no better than rebadged other makes (and most of the frames are being built in the same factories, of course). I agree- they just look like everyone else's...
For me, off-the-peg carbon would be an Orbea, BMC, or a Storck. Bespoke carbon- you know who. Or for metals an Enigma, Van Nicholas or equivalent. Plus a Moulton.

Got to disagree Simon at Colin Lewis loves his Master Series, Colin Lewis rides a C40 and thinks it's a cracking bike. Neither are anything like other manufacturers bikes the tubes are made for Colnago only; as are the lugs. Simon says the EPS is truly a thing of beauty in the flesh but he can't afford one. Said he do me a good deal with my MDCC membership takking 10% off though ... . . .. . . . . .

You seem to have misread my post. I wasn't saying the Master Series was naff, I said the black & gold scheme was naff. Lovely bike in the right colours, just not those. And I said nothing about the C40 being anything other than great- my friend would still be very happy with his if it hadn't been wrecked, I'm sure (and he likes his C50, just not quite as much- certainly I'd have one). And with the exception of the very top-end models, most Colnagos are built in the Far East these days (as with more than a few 'European' brands). Nothing wrong with that per se....And I stand by my view- and his- that the more recent models (i.e. NOT the C40 or C50) look like anybody else's. They might ride better, but if they insist on charging that kind of money for off-the-peg frames, they better have.........

gabriel959

I suppose everyone is different. For StuffAL seems that a custom frame is very important. I personaly don't rate it that highly because in real terms it usually there is very little difference and its more a gimmick than a feature itself.

I also think people are being rather harsh with Epic about it. If they are not selling enough, even with all their support and people's comments it might be a good idea to drop them as they are a business at the end of the day and they need to feed their children

Not that there is anything wrong with all the other brands, each one of them offer slightly different qualities and selling points that the other brands lack so may be the problem is that there is not enough demand for custom frames.

rjsterry

Clever Pun wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Quite the nicest seatpost clamp I have seen in a while.



EDIT: This and a lot of other tasty stuff was made by Ulrich Vogel

http://www.vogel-rahmenbau.de/

that is a thing of beauty... that reminds me must do mine on the mills

Actually, looking at your avatar CP, I think this bike was made for you.

http://www.vogel-rahmenbau.de/PK%203%20klein.jpg

stuaff

gabriel959 wrote:

I suppose everyone is different. For StuffAL seems that a custom frame is very important. I personaly don't rate it that highly because in real terms it usually there is very little difference and its more a gimmick than a feature itself.

I also think people are being rather harsh with Epic about it. If they are not selling enough, even with all their support and people's comments it might be a good idea to drop them as they are a business at the end of the day and they need to feed their children

Not that there is anything wrong with all the other brands, each one of them offer slightly different qualities and selling points that the other brands lack so may be the problem is that there is not enough demand for custom frames.

Where did I say that 'a custom frame is very important'? My Magnifica's a standard large size (that model isn't available in custom sizing, apart from mine being second-hand). Fits me perfectly. I clearly don't have a problem getting an OTP bike to fit, nor would I have a problem buying one in future. If/when I go uberbike shopping, I'll certainly at least consider standard sized bikes. That said, if there's a choice between a bike that happens to suit you, and a bike built to suit you, for the same price, I'd probably go for the latter. I'm sure Epic have sound reasons for dropping Viner- I'd just preferred them to have been a bit more transparent and upfront about it, instead of the way they did it (which led to much speculation).

Clever Pun

rjsterry wrote:

Actually, looking at your avatar CP, I think this bike was made for you.

http://www.vogel-rahmenbau.de/PK%203%20klein.jpg

oh hell heah...

don't have a clue about the rest of the website, but that's a great colour scheme