"English Spoken"

alfablue

This is quite weird! I can't quite believe an explanation is necessary - this is a joke, right???

Yes, colour may trigger assumptions and stereotypes, but intellect should then kick in (more or less immediately) and remind the observer that the person who is non-white may be as British as the next person. The fact that the intellect has not kicked in after such a protracted period, and that a poster can put a message on here and still this information has not permeated the thought process, is worrying, to say the least. Reluctant as I am to blame the education system, something has clearly gone wrong here!

passout

markwalker wrote:

alfablue wrote:

markwalker wrote:

alfablue wrote:

rake wrote:

alfablue wrote:

How do you know they aren't British? How do you know they are from Pakistan?

by their appearance.

You are one clever guy!!!!!!!

what???

dont deny what is obvious to one and all becasue it suits your feeble argument. and dont try and pretend we live in a Eutopian prejudice free world because Im certain you have prejudice on all sorts of levels.

Its human nature.

What is obvious is that nationality is not determined by colour,I am amazed that some people still have such views as this.

Ok when the human eye looks at something it makes judgements, in the case of people its a sub concious flash of the eye thing but includes colour (even liberals and you alfablue) height weight dress attitude location context, in the same flash of time, personal experience and prejudice is added in and decisons made and views formed.

Hence why its perfectly reasonable to look at someone and say theyre from pakistan. (even though some peoples definition of pakistan might encompass several regions.)

We make flash ddecisions every day just like that, when we chose to cross the road or blow on food that might be too hot for eg.

In this way colour does significantly contribute to what people identify with nationality. to deny it is pointless and i can be almost certain that you dont walk down the road thinking thats a person thats a person and be devoid of awarenes of wether people are male or female or look like a threat or look in need of help. Billions of calculations a day have fine tuned our instant decision amkin g which is right most of the time.

When I walk down my local high street (Preston) I don't question anyones nationality even though there's a real mix of races. Why would I care what passport they hold? I genuinely don't link colour to nationality within the UK. In that sense you and I are obviously different.

Edit- I'm still not sure that you get the difference between nationality (which passport you have) and race to be honest.

Pross

EKIMIKE wrote:

Pross wrote:

Reddragon, yes I have filled in my nationality as Welsh but I've never seen the term Welsh British printed as a choice.

Welsh or Welsh British - all the same. Point being there's never English or English British.

I've never actually seen Welsh as an actual tick box choice though. I am Welsh and I am British and proud?? to be both which is where I differ from Mark Walker who says he's English not British :?

I enjoy a healthy bit of banter when the various countries within the UK play sports but would never argue I'm not British. I'm not English either and will correct people who say I am not because I'm anti-English but because it is factually incorrect just as I'm not a Scot or French.

markwalker

eh? are you transnational? or just confused?

Ands

passout wrote:

Edit- I'm still not sure that you get the difference between nationality (which passport you have) and race to be honest.

Absolutely - you can acquire a nationality through birth or naturalization; you can be of dual (or more) nationality; you can change your nationality; rescind it completely, hold nationality for a country which you were neither born in nor have ever visited! Race however, is not transferrable.

Pross

markwalker wrote:

eh? are you transnational? or just confused?

I'm not confused, I am Welsh (from Wales) and British as Wales is a component of the British Isles.

I trust that when you decide to discriminate against people on the basis of their pidgin English you will also take a good look at your own use of your language. I don't usually pick up on people's spelling and grammar on websites as we all make mistakes but as you don't want any foreigners working for you due to their poor language and communication skills it is slightly ironic that I often have to re-read your posts several times to make any sense out of them. It's probably lucky you are self-employed. Are you sure you are genuinely English and don't have some dodgy foreign blood in you

markwalker

Hands up to duff English, I haven't worked out how to see what Im typing when the previous text uses the whole of the available box space. :oops:

alfablue

markwalker wrote:

Hands up to duff English, I haven't worked out how to see what Im typing when the previous text uses the whole of the available box space. :oops:

Great excuse, I'm going to use that one

passout

it is worth pointing out that as many Brits migrate to other countries (eg Spain, France) as migrants come here. EU agreements & migration work both ways.

cee

passout wrote:

it is worth pointing out that as many Brits migrate to other countries (eg Spain, France) as migrants come here. EU agreements & migration work both ways.

and as i pointed out earlier....brits are really bad at learning languages compared to our euro counterparts....

i lived in various parts of spain for almost 2 years and the number of brits who had worked there for years, but couldn't say anything in spanish other than cervesa and cigarillo was untrue.

EKIMIKE

johnfinch wrote:

Depends how much notice they get. If they've been planning on moving to the UK for a long time, then of course they should learn as much of the language as they can before they get here, but in some cases they might just get a few days notice.

The same thing happened to me a few years back. I spotted a job advert in Slovakia and 5 days later I was over there, knowing only how to say please, thank you, hello and good-bye.

Life isn't always simple, unfortunately.

You made a personal choice to migrate. It wasn't like you were 'conscripted' there. You made the choice to apply for a job in Slovakia. Therefore you don't really have any excuse if you get there and feel 'outcast' because you can't speak the language.

Political migrants usually have to migrate with haste to avoid persecution. Knowing the language of their destination is a lesser priority than escaping persecution, hence why they have a pretty legit excuse to feel 'outcast'.

Even if you were for example 'posted' somewhere within a company, there would at least be a support structure or community of people who speak the same language.

Migration isn't as simple as you thought, unfortunately. Again, don't be so narrow as to assume that your experiences are the be all and end all.

teagar

Hey Mark.

In case you're in denial that you are racist, here's the UN definition for racial discrimination:

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

As I understand it, you are restricting, excluding, and prefering on the basis of national origin, for that particular job you are apparantly advertising. That you talk of the British in terms of race, "being indigenous", I could also plausably level discrimination on the basis of ethnicity at you too.

Edit:

According to British law, racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".

http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/pros ... rbook.html

It's more than the colour of one's skin.

markwalker

teagar wrote:

Hey Mark.

In case you're in denial that you are racist, here's the UN definition for racial discrimination:

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

As I understand it, you are restricting, excluding, and prefering on the basis of national origin, for that particular job you are apparantly advertising.

but the fundamental freedoms and responsibilities afforded to citizens of Europe dont apply to those people from Africa in relatioin to employment. stop clutching at strraws teagar, Im sure Cherie bleading heart blair couldfind reasons why they do but i cant imagine anyone wanting to interviewa goatherder for a customer services and sales role in the uk unless it was vet or feed or goat meat related and even then why bother. Actually dont answer that were going round in circles and its getting as boring as you

teagar

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

Hey Mark.

In case you're in denial that you are racist, here's the UN definition for racial discrimination:

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

As I understand it, you are restricting, excluding, and prefering on the basis of national origin, for that particular job you are apparantly advertising.

but the fundamental freedoms and responsibilities afforded to citizens of Europe dont apply to those people from Africa in relatioin to employment. stop clutching at strraws teagar, Im sure Cherie bleading heart blair couldfind reasons why they do but i cant imagine anyone wanting to interviewa goatherder for a customer services and sales role in the uk unless it was vet or feed or goat meat related and even then why bother. Actually dont answer that were going round in circles and its getting as boring as you

Stop clutching at straws? You're clutching to your pathetic sordid little interpretation of a law which certanly wasn't meant to be used in the way it is. I'm not interested if you are adhearing to that specific law or not. You are racially discriminating. Racism is not a legal thing. It's a univeral issue, and people are universally entitled to be free from it.

No-one in the world, whether European or otherwise deserves such treatment. It's the behaviour of sordid, pathetic little people.

Edit; You're bacially saying there it's fine to be racist towards non-Europeans because they arn't afforded the same rights for employment? I'm enjoing this Mark - It's nice to show the world who you really are.A Pathetic, racist biggot, who resorts to oral sex fixated insults when he's beaten. Figures.

EKIMIKE

cee wrote:

passout wrote:

it is worth pointing out that as many Brits migrate to other countries (eg Spain, France) as migrants come here. EU agreements & migration work both ways.

and as i pointed out earlier....brits are really bad at learning languages compared to our euro counterparts....

i lived in various parts of spain for almost 2 years and the number of brits who had worked there for years, but couldn't say anything in spanish other than cervesa and cigarillo was untrue.

+1 to that. We Brits are shocking for learning other languages. The way foreign languages are taught in the majority of our schools is terrible. I was a student of French because I wanted to learn the French language. Unfortunately I was only taught the neccessary components to pass the exams. I know loads of words and the theory of forming tenses but I have ZERO conversational skills when it comes to French. I could correspond with some by letter but not by conversation. Speaking to kids form France and Italy, the emphasis is on actually learning the language in coversation and on paper. And they start their study of foreign languages at a much younger age. Most of them are Bi-lingual to some extent.

rake

like the bme organisation?

EKIMIKE

This whole taxi thing: the stickers themselves are not racist. They simply state that the speaks English, thus likely to be of English nationality. That is not racist.

Unfortunately, in the circumstances, the stickers are racial infammatory.

The circumstances have been created by a failure of the regulatory body to ensure that the Taxi drivers are able to fulfill their job requirements.

Ands

EKIMIKE wrote:

[
+1 to that. We Brits are shocking for learning other languages............

But you have maligned others for failing to do the same?

markwalker

teagar wrote:

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

Hey Mark.

In case you're in denial that you are racist, here's the UN definition for racial discrimination:

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

As I understand it, you are restricting, excluding, and prefering on the basis of national origin, for that particular job you are apparantly advertising.

but the fundamental freedoms and responsibilities afforded to citizens of Europe dont apply to those people from Africa in relatioin to employment. stop clutching at strraws teagar, Im sure Cherie bleading heart blair couldfind reasons why they do but i cant imagine anyone wanting to interviewa goatherder for a customer services and sales role in the uk unless it was vet or feed or goat meat related and even then why bother. Actually dont answer that were going round in circles and its getting as boring as you

Stop clutching at straws? You're clutching to your pathetic sordid little interpretation of a law which certanly wasn't meant to be used in the way it is. I'm not interested if you are adhearing to that specific law or not. You are racially discriminating. Racism is not a legal thing. It's a univeral issue, and people are universally entitled to be free from it.

No-one in the world, whether European or otherwise deserves such treatment. It's the behaviour of sordid, pathetic little people.

Edit; You're bacially saying there it's fine to be racist towards non-Europeans because they arn't afforded the same rights for employment? I'm enjoing this Mark - It's nice to show the world who you really are.A Pathetic, racist biggot, who resorts to oral sex fixated insults when he's beaten. Figures.

No its not a universal thing, people from europe are given preferential access to roles in Europe over those from outside the area its not about colour race age sex its about nurturing a succesful ecconomy and providing an environment to nurture and support those inside it.

Why are you fixated with oral sex Teagar?

teagar

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

Hey Mark.

In case you're in denial that you are racist, here's the UN definition for racial discrimination:

"the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

As I understand it, you are restricting, excluding, and prefering on the basis of national origin, for that particular job you are apparantly advertising.

but the fundamental freedoms and responsibilities afforded to citizens of Europe dont apply to those people from Africa in relatioin to employment. stop clutching at strraws teagar, Im sure Cherie bleading heart blair couldfind reasons why they do but i cant imagine anyone wanting to interviewa goatherder for a customer services and sales role in the uk unless it was vet or feed or goat meat related and even then why bother. Actually dont answer that were going round in circles and its getting as boring as you

Stop clutching at straws? You're clutching to your pathetic sordid little interpretation of a law which certanly wasn't meant to be used in the way it is. I'm not interested if you are adhearing to that specific law or not. You are racially discriminating. Racism is not a legal thing. It's a univeral issue, and people are universally entitled to be free from it.

No-one in the world, whether European or otherwise deserves such treatment. It's the behaviour of sordid, pathetic little people.

Edit; You're bacially saying there it's fine to be racist towards non-Europeans because they arn't afforded the same rights for employment? I'm enjoing this Mark - It's nice to show the world who you really are.A Pathetic, racist biggot, who resorts to oral sex fixated insults when he's beaten. Figures.

No its not a universal thing, people from europe are given preferential access to roles in Europe over those from outside the area its not about colour race age sex its about nurturing a succesful ecconomy and providing an environment to nurture and support those inside it.

Why are you fixated with oral sex Teagar?

Being free from racism should not be unverisal?

As for the final question: That makes no sense in light of what I wrote.

markwalker

Teagar, come on you didnt deny your oral fixation did you, is it an african fixation you serve?

If it is that might shed some light on your crusade. Your life your choice i suppose.

EKIMIKE

Ands wrote:

EKIMIKE wrote:

[
+1 to that. We Brits are shocking for learning other languages............

But you have maligned others for failing to do the same?

And......? It's a simple fact, as a nation we are terrible at learning other languages. By all means, move to a country without learning the language first. Make that decision and be satified that any consequential diffculties will exist. I haven't maligned anyone for not learning a language.

Personally, I would prefer to learn the language of a country to a suitable extent before I physically move there. If I couldn't do that, but still made the decision to move there, I wouldn't have any excuse to feel disadvantaged and I'd fully expect to feel a little alienated.

teagar

*yawn* same old stuff.

When cornered, come out with some personal insults and ignore the issue.

That the best you have? That's no respose to what I put.

teagar

EKIMIKE wrote:

Ands wrote:

EKIMIKE wrote:

[
+1 to that. We Brits are shocking for learning other languages............

But you have maligned others for failing to do the same?

And......? It's a simple fact, as a nation we are terrible at learning other languages. By all means, move to a country without learning the language first. Make that decision and be satified that any consequential diffculties will exist. I haven't maligned anyone for not learning a language.

Personally, I would prefer to learn the language of a country to a suitable extent before I physically move there. If I couldn't do that, but still made the decision to move there, I wouldn't have any excuse to feel disadvantaged and I'd fully expect to feel a little alienated.

But that's the point. Those who can't speak the langauge don't complain about being alientated (partly because they'd have a little trouble communicating!). It's those who can speak english who complain about their alienation - hence the taxi badges for those who CAN speak it.

They use their use of language as a way to elevate themselves above those who they feel are threatening their livleihood, or, more likely in thi case, lower those who they feel threaten their livelihood. There is somewere a deep sense of entitlement, which, in the world of free markets economics and individualist politics, doesn't fly anymore.

EKIMIKE

Dude, i'm not putting my opinion on learning languages in this context of taxi drivers.

markwalker

teagar wrote:

*yawn* same old stuff.

When cornered, come out with some personal insults and ignore the issue.

That the best you have? That's no respose to what I put.

I wasnt aware it was a competition, still suggesting im pathetic and sordid is rich coming from you given your little prediliction isnt it.

teagar

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

*yawn* same old stuff.

When cornered, come out with some personal insults and ignore the issue.

That the best you have? That's no respose to what I put.

I wasnt aware it was a competition, still suggesting im pathetic and sordid is rich coming from you given your little prediliction isnt it.

Hey, I say it how I see it, and I kept on the issue. You haven't. You're ducking the issue again.

I'l repeat. Are you saying that the right to be free from racism should not be a universal right? That it only applies to within Europe? That's what you've said thus far, but given your fluctuating literary skills in both reading and writing, (see the puncuation in the above post - a bit rich for someone who is fussy about language skills), I need to make sure you're not just reading/writing it wrong.

EKIMIKE

Firstly there's a difference between feeling alienated and complaining about being alienated.

Secondly, the use of the stickers in the story isn't a result of english speaking drivers feeling alienated. They are simply advertising the fact they can speak English. The story appears to paint the drivers with the stickers as the problem. The authorities are the problem (as i have clearly said).

There is no instance of racism in this Taxi story. There is an instance differentiation caused by a problem created by an authoritative mishap. This differentiation is being percieved as racist. It's not an act of racism.

The solution to the problem is for the regulatory authority to remove those drivers who cannot speak English from their positions (ie sack them). This would eliminate the need for the stickers. However the regulatory authority clearly haven't removed the drivers who can't speak English. Why is this? My guess is that they fear being labelled racist. Having that fear in our society is equally as bad as the fear created by racists amongst racial minorities.

markwalker

teagar wrote:

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

*yawn* same old stuff.

When cornered, come out with some personal insults and ignore the issue.

That the best you have? That's no respose to what I put.

I wasnt aware it was a competition, still suggesting im pathetic and sordid is rich coming from you given your little prediliction isnt it.

Hey, I say it how I see it, and I kept on the issue. You haven't. You're ducking the issue again.

I'l repeat. Are you saying that the right to be free from racism should not be a universal right? That it only applies to within Europe? That's what you've said thus far, but given your fluctuating literary skills in both reading and writing, (see the puncuation in the above post - a bit rich for someone who is fussy about language skills), I need to make sure you're not just reading/writing it wrong.

dont you have homework or something to do?

teagar

EKIMIKE wrote:

Firstly there's a difference between feeling alienated and complaining about being alienated.

Secondly, the use of the stickers in the story isn't a result of english speaking drivers feeling alienated. They are simply advertising the fact they can speak English. The story appears to paint the drivers with the stickers as the problem. The authorities are the problem (as i have clearly said).

There is no instance of racism in this Taxi story. There is an instance differentiation caused by a problem created by an authoritative mishap. This differentiation is being percieved as racist. It's not an act of racism.

The solution to the problem is for the regulatory authority to remove those drivers who cannot speak English from their positions (ie sack them). This would eliminate the need for the stickers. However the regulatory authority clearly haven't removed the drivers who can't speak English. Why is this? My guess is that they fear being labelled racist. Having that fear in our society is equally as bad as the fear created by racists amongst racial minorities.

Sorry, i wasn't clear. I didn't mean the english speaking people complaining about being alientated. I meant thet they complain that the non-english speakers are alienated. "Why don't they come talk to us - why don't they integrate with us?" etc.

The only issue I have with the English speaking badge, beyond the fact that it's an issue to be dealt with at the licensing stage, rather than with a badge, is that it can very easily be used as a vehicle for more serious discrimination.