"English Spoken"

teagar

markwalker wrote:

cee wrote:

frinkmakesyouthink wrote:

What really makes my blood boil is when people say 'You're in our country, so speak our language!'

me too.

of course the irony is that there are plenty of british folks who live all over the world and still expect the worl to speak english...

take spain for example...how many brits work there for summers or longer...and how many of them have what you would call any kind of grasp on the local language?

My mistake, we should spend millions accomodating those who cant be arsed to make an effort. yes we should translate the housing and job benifit information, never mind the operations lets spend the money on translating for people whove lived here for 30 years and who know they can immerse themselves in communities supported protected and positivley discriminated for.
Oh silly me we do already, no need to learn English theyll change what they do for us.

I needed that original safety net of being able to read in m native language in order to intergrate. Now look - I'm more eloquent in English than you are!

I take it I can't be arsed to make an effort either/ I'm just lazy and demand free housing. Ignorant!

markwalker

teagar wrote:

I needed that original safety net of being able to read in m native language in order to intergrate. Now look - I'm more eloquent in English than you are!

I take it I can't be arsed to make an effort either/ I'm just lazy and demand free housing. Ignorant!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz or for a more elegant repost.... blow me

bails87

cee wrote:

markwalker

my point was that this is exactly the attitude of many brits who live abroad, but yet can't speak the language of the country. they expect every spanish person to in spain to speak english.

Ahem....

hopper1 wrote:

[
I work all over the world, with many different nationals... It is sometimes difficult to understand the best of them.

cee

markwalker wrote:

cee wrote:

markwalker

my point was that this is exactly the attitude of many brits who live abroad, but yet can't speak the language of the country. they expect every spanish person to in spain to speak english.

Yes i got that point and the irony ofit is not lost either,

My mistake, I was addressing the comment re the outrage caused when some people ask for immigrants to this country to lean the language.

but your response doesn't seem to suggest your understanding...you argue further that we change to suit foreign national coming here....but did not mention the fact that so does spain, france, germany, thailand, japan, korea, china etc etc...

Its a typical small island mentality....cant see past the shore.

cee

bails87 wrote:

cee wrote:

markwalker

my point was that this is exactly the attitude of many brits who live abroad, but yet can't speak the language of the country. they expect every spanish person to in spain to speak english.

Ahem....

hopper1 wrote:

[
I work all over the world, with many different nationals... It is sometimes difficult to understand the best of them.

Indeed.

I bet it would be easier if someone who worked all over the world with many different nationalities spoke at least one langauge other than english..now i am not saying that hopper does or doesn't....i dont know...ive never met him/her...

lae

markwalker wrote:

My mistake, I was addressing the comment re the outrage caused when some people ask for immigrants to this country to lean the language.

That's not exactly what I said.

And yes, I do think we should spend money on trying to help people to integrate into our shared society - they pay their taxes, they have as much right to be here as you do, and as a society we have a duty to protect them. If that means explaining difficult terms like contracts or laws in the language of the immigrants, so that they fully understand and are therefore not indirectly discriminated against, then so be it. Surely if you want to welcome people into our society then you should help them as much as you can.

Please don't try to use the 'you don't have any experience' card against me. In the least, it is patronising. And at most, it's wrong, because I do have experience of working in France, Bulgaria and Hungary. We didn't usually speak any of the other's language (except me being able to speak French) but I was helped massively. My employer in Hungary sent me along to a couple of free Hungarian lessons. In Bulgaria the lady actually got her daughter to translate for her on the first few days, and to teach me some of the language so I could get along. Would I get that kind of help in the UK? I doubt it.

lae

frinkmakesyouthink wrote:

markwalker wrote:

My mistake, I was addressing the comment re the outrage caused when some people ask for immigrants to this country to lean the language.

That's not exactly what I said.

And yes, I do think we should spend money on trying to help people to integrate into our shared society - they pay their taxes, they have as much right to be here as you do, and as a society we have a duty to protect them. If that means explaining difficult terms like contracts or laws in the language of the immigrants, so that they fully understand and are therefore not indirectly discriminated against, then so be it. Surely if you want to welcome people into our society then you should help them as much as you can. And if you don't want to welcome people into our society, then, I don't really know what to say to that.

Please don't try to use the 'you don't have any experience' card against me. In the least, it is patronising. And at most, it's wrong, because I do have experience of working in France, Bulgaria and Hungary. We didn't usually speak any of the other's language (except me being able to speak French) but I was helped massively. My employer in Hungary sent me along to a couple of free Hungarian lessons. In Bulgaria the lady actually got her daughter to translate for her on the first few days, and to teach me some of the language so I could get along. Would I get that kind of help in the UK? I doubt it.

markwalker

frinkmakesyouthink wrote:

markwalker wrote:

My mistake, I was addressing the comment re the outrage caused when some people ask for immigrants to this country to lean the language.

That's not exactly what I said.

And yes, I do think we should spend money on trying to help people to integrate into our shared society - they pay their taxes, they have as much right to be here as you do, and as a society we have a duty to protect them. If that means explaining difficult terms like contracts or laws in the language of the immigrants, so that they fully understand and are therefore not indirectly discriminated against, then so be it. Surely if you want to welcome people into our society then you should help them as much as you can.

Please don't try to use the 'you don't have any experience' card against me. In the least, it is patronising. And at most, it's wrong, because I do have experience of working in France, Bulgaria and Hungary. We didn't usually speak any of the other's language (except me being able to speak French) but I was helped massively. My employer in Hungary sent me along to a couple of free Hungarian lessons. In Bulgaria the lady actually got her daughter to translate for her on the first few days, and to teach me some of the language so I could get along. Would I get that kind of help in the UK? I doubt it.

I dont care if youre patronised or not and frankly youre living the PC dream just dont expect me to accomodate or welcome your nonce views.

Anonymous

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

I needed that original safety net of being able to read in m native language in order to intergrate. Now look - I'm more eloquent in English than you are!

I take it I can't be arsed to make an effort either/ I'm just lazy and demand free housing. Ignorant!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz or for a more elegant repost.... blow me

ahem, with comments like that being chucked about, I do hope your willy is at least clean, for the other persons hygeine.

markwalker

dmclite wrote:

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

I needed that original safety net of being able to read in m native language in order to intergrate. Now look - I'm more eloquent in English than you are!

I take it I can't be arsed to make an effort either/ I'm just lazy and demand free housing. Ignorant!

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz or for a more elegant repost.... blow me

ahem, with comments like that being chucked about, I do hope your willy is at least clean, for the other persons hygeine.

I am of course a considerate lover

lae

markwalker wrote:

I dont care if youre patronised or not and frankly youre living the PC dream just dont expect me to accomodate or welcome your nonce views.

Well if by 'PC' you mean 'liberal' and by 'living a dream' you mean 'hoping for things to change in the future', then yes, by all means I am living the PC dream. Given that I'm presenting a reasoned and long thought-out argument, and you have provided nothing in retort, I think it's fair to conclude that you're arguing on the nonce rather than me.

markwalker

frinkmakesyouthink wrote:

markwalker wrote:

I dont care if youre patronised or not and frankly youre living the PC dream just dont expect me to accomodate or welcome your nonce views.

Well if by 'PC' you mean 'liberal' and by 'living a dream' you mean 'hoping for things to change in the future', then yes, by all means I am living the PC dream. Given that I'm presenting a reasoned and long thought-out argument, and you have provided nothing in retort, I think it's fair to conclude that you're arguing on the nonce rather than me.

It can be that long thought out can it? unless you count the collective time of your teachers and peers?

your response and idealistic view of the world betrays your inexperience, now assuming you dont have anything interesting to say im off to legally discrminiate against those least likely to be a positive influence on mybusiness. you can go to the uni bar and squash some pimples and put the world to rights

EKIMIKE

Er, the only problem I see here is that Taxi drivers have not been vetted correctly. Clearly this issue has arisen because some drivers have not been able to fulfill their duties. This appears to have been a consequence of them not being able to speak good enough english.

What I don't get is, by identifying oneself as English seems to result in the accusation of being racist. Currently, English people are being denied their identity. On most governmental forms you will be asked if you are a citizen of the United Kingdom, and then your racial identity/classification (i.e. White British, White Irish, African-Carribean e.t.c). If you're WHite British, you'll then be asked to identify yourself as Scottish British, Welsh British or Irish British. If you're English British there is no place for you. I find this equally discriminatory as I would the omission of British Muslim, British African e.t.c.

Unfortunately this situation isn't helped by idiots like the BNP who have manipulated the identity of an English person into something which stands for racism, xenophobia e.t.c. Why do we let idiots like these taint the English identity? Why are we forbidden to call ourselves English. Does is make me racist to call myself English? No, it's just a fact.

Where it gets worse is when we sacrifice our indetity to such an extent that we limit our powers to govern our own society/country. I find it absurd that the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish can vote for their own governments and the British government, yet the English people can only vote for the British Government. Unfortunately if a politician were to campaign for an English governement he would be labelled racist/nationalist/BNP. We are a United Kingdom of 4 nations. Why is it that only 3 can claim their national identity?

teagar

Ekmike:

There are obviously political issues with devolution - i don't think they are much related to issues of identity.


It's true that many people, part of the dominant identity (in this case, White English), feel their identity slipping away, as they are confronted by forces, rules, regulations, that elevate those who are not White English (i.e. the dominant identity). They feel that they are being discriminated against, since they don't get the explicity 'positive discrimination' that the non-dominant identities do.

What they don't realise, is that, since they the dominant identity (White English), that everything implicitly helps them anyway, due to prejudices. You're more likely to be earning more if you're White and British, more likely to be employed, etc. People like MarkWalker let that kind of thing happen.

Thus, those explicit rules, helping the non-white British rules, though much more conspicuous, are in fact adressing the fundamental inbalance. If you think it's tough being white British in the UK, you should try being foreign here.

markwalker

Teagar "people like Mark Walker let that happen"

I have not sugggested that i will discriminate by colour have i?

Its right on know nothing loony liberals like you that casue the problem by projecting your prejudices on others (in this case me) and then seek to demonstrate how wrong they (i)are. when in fact nothing untoward has happened despite your totally incorrect first impressions and protestations. People

youve clearley got a chip on your shoulder and if i hear anymore of this racist name calling i shall be objecting on the basis that YOU are in fact being racist. stop being a NOB. People like you put back the cause of racially equality and for your information working class white males are by some way the biggest group of underachievers in education. How about some positive discrimination there?

markwalker

EKIMIKE wrote:

Er, the only problem I see here is that Taxi drivers have not been vetted correctly. Clearly this issue has arisen because some drivers have not been able to fulfill their duties. This appears to have been a consequence of them not being able to speak good enough english.

What I don't get is, by identifying oneself as English seems to result in the accusation of being racist. Currently, English people are being denied their identity. On most governmental forms you will be asked if you are a citizen of the United Kingdom, and then your racial identity/classification (i.e. White British, White Irish, African-Carribean e.t.c). If you're WHite British, you'll then be asked to identify yourself as Scottish British, Welsh British or Irish British. If you're English British there is no place for you. I find this equally discriminatory as I would the omission of British Muslim, British African e.t.c.

Unfortunately this situation isn't helped by idiots like the BNP who have manipulated the identity of an English person into something which stands for racism, xenophobia e.t.c. Why do we let idiots like these taint the English identity? Why are we forbidden to call ourselves English. Does is make me racist to call myself English? No, it's just a fact.

Where it gets worse is when we sacrifice our indetity to such an extent that we limit our powers to govern our own society/country. I find it absurd that the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish can vote for their own governments and the British government, yet the English people can only vote for the British Government. Unfortunately if a politician were to campaign for an English governement he would be labelled racist/nationalist/BNP. We are a United Kingdom of 4 nations. Why is it that only 3 can claim their national identity?

+10million well put

finchy

EKIMIKE wrote:

Where it gets worse is when we sacrifice our indetity to such an extent that we limit our powers to govern our own society/country. I find it absurd that the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish can vote for their own governments and the British government, yet the English people can only vote for the British Government. Unfortunately if a politician were to campaign for an English governement he would be labelled racist/nationalist/BNP. We are a United Kingdom of 4 nations. Why is it that only 3 can claim their national identity?

Didn't the North East of England get the chance to have a regionally devolved assembly, and reject it in a referendum a few years back?

The difference is that the Welsh and the Scottish voters clearly wanted some form of devolution, whereas the English would almost certainly vote against it. Pity really, I'd vote for regional English assemblies, especially if they offered PR.

markwalker

but regional assemblies would break up whatever Englishness exists whilst Welsh Scottish and northern Island assemblies cover a whole country

markwalker

teagar wrote:

you should try being foreign here.

Well if its too horrible for you why dont you disappear from whence you came. trott off

teagar

markwalker wrote:

Teagar "people like Mark Walker let that happen"

I have not sugggested that i will discriminate by colour have i?

markwalker wrote:

I intend to dismiss all applications that are in pidgeon English or from Africans

You pretty much did, though not explicitly, colour, though the African thing can largely be considered as such.

---

markwalker wrote:

youve clearley got a chip on your shoulder and if i hear anymore of this racist name calling i shall be objecting on the basis that YOU are in fact being racist. stop being a NOB.

You're complaining about namecalling?

markwalker wrote:

Teagar youre like that character from Viz hippy / modern parents

markwalker wrote:

if you think thats racist you can duck my sick

markwalker wrote:

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz or for a more elegant repost.... blow me

markwalker wrote:

just dont expect me to accomodate or welcome your nonce views.

---

markwalker wrote:

People like you put back the cause of racially equality and for your information working class white males are by some way the biggest group of underachievers in education. How about some positive discrimination there?

I wasn't talking about eduation, i was talking economically. White working class men tend to have more jobs, and earn more for the same work compared to white working class women, or non-white working class men and women.

markwalker

well look at the numbers of white indiginous men without jobs compared to non white and youll see something interesting. only when you add in the wave of millions of immigrants does that picture change.

And education counts. when they leave school they wont be getting jobs to go with not getting qualifications. these are facts that people like you convieniently dismiss or ignore. the liberal establishment is the biggest racist in this country and its against white indiginous men.

teagar

markwalker wrote:

teagar wrote:

you should try being foreign here.

Well if its too horrible for you why dont you disappear from whence you came. trott off

Well given that I came here as a child - I didn't have much choice.

Now that I am here, have been brought up here and have been schooled here, it is easiest for me to get a job here.

Isn't the point that it shouldn't be horrible Mark? Why are you happy to make it horrible for certain people? Doesn't that show how horrible you really are?

teagar

markwalker wrote:

well look at the numbers of white indiginous men without jobs compared to non white and youll see something interesting. only when you add in the wave of millions of immigrants does that picture change.

And education counts. when they leave school they wont be getting jobs to go with not getting qualifications. these are facts that people like you convieniently dismiss or ignore. the liberal establishment is the biggest racist in this country and its against white indiginous men.

You voted BNP and ICMFP.

markwalker

teagar wrote:

markwalker wrote:

well look at the numbers of white indiginous men without jobs compared to non white and youll see something interesting. only when you add in the wave of millions of immigrants does that picture change.

And education counts. when they leave school they wont be getting jobs to go with not getting qualifications. these are facts that people like you convieniently dismiss or ignore. the liberal establishment is the biggest racist in this country and its against white indiginous men.

You voted BNP and ICMFP.

what the f ck is ICMFP

teagar

Learn the forum language Mark. Come on!

passout

markwalker wrote:

well look at the numbers of white indiginous men without jobs compared to non white and youll see something interesting. only when you add in the wave of millions of immigrants does that picture change.

And education counts. when they leave school they wont be getting jobs to go with not getting qualifications. these are facts that people like you convieniently dismiss or ignore. the liberal establishment is the biggest racist in this country and its against white indiginous men.

White men are the victims? Yeah right, have you been smoking crack?

Many immigrants take the jobs that the British won't do because they think they are better off on benefits e.g. harvesting fruit & vegetables. Perhaps they are right - I'm not judging anybody BUT white men are not victims.

markwalker

an i dont want to make it horrible i dont hink it is yet but if youthink its horrible leave. its a matter of perception.

if you have a deep sense of unhappiness and longing to return to a country because of a feeling of cultural homeland why do you think its acceptable to destroy my countries culture to accomodate people like you that want it to be different?

There are many many double standards coming from you

Jesus its the freedom of views as long as theyre mine brigade.

markwalker

an i dont want to make it horrible i dont hink it is yet but if youthink its horrible leave. its a matter of perception.

if you have a deep sense of unhappiness and longing to return to a country because of a feeling of cultural homeland why do you think its acceptable to destroy my countries culture to accomodate people like you that want it to be different?

There are many many double standards coming from you

Jesus its the freedom of views as long as theyre mine brigade.

teagar

markwalker wrote:

an i dont want to make it horrible i dont hink it is yet but if youthink its horrible leave. its a matter of perception.

if you have a deep sense of unhappiness and longing to return to a country because of a feeling of cultural homeland why do you think its acceptable to destroy my countries culture to accomodate people like you that want it to be different?

There are many many double standards coming from you

Jesus its the freedom of views as long as theyre mine brigade.

I never said anything about "longing to return". Just because I don't like this place doesn't mean I long for elsewhere.

You of all people must have seen Gert Wilders' rise in popularity?

You can say whatever you want, just as I can say you're fundamentally wrong. I'm not infringing on any freedom.

Similarly, because I've lived here for so long, I get treated as a foreigner wherever I go. Makes no difference. People like you aren't some exclusive breed just for the UK.

EKIMIKE

teagar wrote:

Ekmike:
If you think it's tough being white British in the UK, you should try being foreign here.

No, I don't think it's tough at all. I admire those who overcome the challenges associated with migration. I've been a student of Geography so I understand why migration occurs and the benefits and disadvantages that come with it.

The political references are just anecdotal. I don't mind who gets to vote for who or what. Equally I don't care if the White English population aren't the dominant segment.

What I do care about is being denied an Identity. What's more being labelled a racist for claiming my identity.

If we can't all be British together then we should all be able to claim an identity. What annoys me is when Identity becomes a political/social tool for discrimination. I also see no difference between 'positive' and 'negative' discrimination. In any given circumstances, discrimination will always be positive to some and negative to others.