OT: Employment advice (again)

always_tyred

In seriousness, I really just need to know where an employer's input as to my appearance reasonably ends and my mother's or gf's begins.

None of us can really comment on internal machinations of the companies we work for without, formally, breaching our contracts.

So, teasing aside, I've been brought to task about my appearance on a few occasions and I think it is unjustified, humiliating and inaccurate. I also fear that it is going to continue and/or get worse (i.e. there aren't many aspects of my appearance which have thus far not drawn comment, therefore I fear that these will be next).

cee

did you know this person before you started working at the firm, or is the personal nature of the issue something that happened since you worked there?

I guess the other question is...are the two partners in a personal relationship as well as a business one?

And the last one (which given your earlier posts I expect you wlll probably keep to yourself)...what is it that you know about her that she wishes you didn't?

I suspect that the answer to this last question holds the key.

always_tyred

cee wrote:

did you know this person before you started working at the firm, or is the personal nature of the issue something that happened since you worked there?

I am merely an employee with no previous association with the firm.

I'm not sure if I'm too scruffy.

And that's all.

cee

Always Tyred wrote:

In seriousness, I really just need to know where an employer's input as to my appearance reasonably ends and my mother's or gf's begins.

None of us can really comment on internal machinations of the companies we work for without, formally, breaching our contracts.

So, teasing aside, I've been brought to task about my appearance on a few occasions and I think it is unjustified, humiliating and inaccurate.

on the work dress front...not sure exactly where the line is.....but i expect the law to be fairly wooly in this respect with lots of 'appropriate' and 'reasonable' etc......

If you are client facing, then clean shaven, and a suit sounds appropriate and reasonable to me....but it sounds like you are doing that (i would say it is also reasonable to only shave every 2nd day if shaving every day causes your face to be painful, or look worse than if you didn't shave...).

Have you been given any official warnings about your appearance? I would bet no.

if that is the case, then I would think that the appearance is a bum steer, and that you already know what the real issue is.

cee

Always Tyred wrote:

cee wrote:

did you know this person before you started working at the firm, or is the personal nature of the issue something that happened since you worked there?

I am merely an employee with no previous association with the firm.

I'm not sure if I'm too scruffy.

And that's all.

OK. get your drift.

suzyb

The same company had me get rid of receptionists because they were fat. I felt like a complete b!tch doing so, not least because it's illegal so I had to concoct all manner of silly excuses. But it's their company, their rules.

Which company is that so I can make sure and avoid going for any job there :evil:

AT has this been going on since you started working at the place. Because sometimes people just take a dislike to others.

KINGGARY

It sounds to me like your boss really has it in for you

By adhering to buisness dress as you are ,you are fufilling your dress code obligations and she really has no right to specify what tie you should wear with which suit etc

two things strike me here having working in many different inviroments and been involved in managment (until i decided i really didn't like the view)

firstly it may be possible that she is simply a bully and in which case fight it as you may , you may need to start looking foir another position

secondly she may simply feel threatened by you and by undermining you may believe she looks better

Hope it pans out ok for you, not a nice position to be in

always_tyred

Look, I think I know where she's coming from.

All that I can do is tow the line, but to let it be known where my personal boundaries are, so as to mitigate the problem. I can tolerate having my arse kicked indefinitely, providing that I make it too much hassle to kick my arse so hard that I can't tolerate it any more.

If that makes sense.

So I'm trying to let it be known that I take the point, I shaved, I got new clothes and that's enough now.

metalmonkey

Did you speak wth ACAS? If it bothers you that much then you should, they will offer advice.

Also do your companyb have SOPs (standard operating prodecdure) if so there will be something on dress in there. Where I work does which lays down in black and white clearly what is expected. Myself I don't take s*** from people and the people involved thought I wouldn't do anything about and I have.

Its up to you, good luck.

cee

Always Tyred wrote:

Look, I think I know where she's coming from.

All that I can do is tow the line, but to let it be known where my personal boundaries are, so as to mitigate the problem. I can tolerate having my ars* kicked indefinitely, providing that I make it too much hassle to kick my ars* so hard that I can't tolerate it any more.

If that makes sense.

So I'm trying to let it be known that I take the point, I shaved, I got new clothes and that's enough now.

hope it works out for you AT. does sound like a horrid place to be.

cyberknight

As long as you conform with the dress code she does not have a legal leg to stand on

If they want you to dress a certain way then get them to cough up for it,most other employers that require a "uniform" be it for safety or company image provide it or a clothing allowance.

cyberknight

KINGGARY wrote:

secondly she may simply feel threatened by you and by undermining you may believe she looks better

reminds me of a guy at work who has been there 15 years and is still an entry level employee.He goes out of his way to be abusive and unhelpful to people who give a cr*p and help others out.

He called me a "c**ks***er" because i helped a team leader out who was stuck, needless to say i reported him to the team leader and now he gives remarks like " i had better not swaer or i will get reported "

Wallace1492

cyberknight wrote:

As long as you conform with the dress code she does not have a beautifully shaved legal leg to stand on

If they want you to dress a certain way then get them to cough up for it,most other employers that require a "uniform" be it for safety or company image provide it or a clothing allowance.

Fixed that for you

suzyb

Found this which relates to the earlier quote about someone being fired for being fat.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100115/tt ... 02f96.html

Wallace1492

-null- wrote:

Found this which relates to the earlier quote about someone being fired for being fat.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100115/tt ... 02f96.html

"Enrieu subsequently lost 159 kg (350 lb) on a slimming regimen and has since become a swimming instructor." :shock: :shock: :shock:

Wow, thats two of me lost...... more even that Gaz!!

lost_in_thought

Oooh blimey, I go out for a bike ride (yay) (also blarghzzzz) (and brrr) and it's all getting a lot more interesting over here!

AT, d'you think she fancies you or did? Irrespective of whether you're in a relationship it's worth trying to work that out. Could explain why she's being a cow. I really think (although I don't know the person) that a one-to-one 'chat' where you just ask her if there's something going on would be a good thing for your sanity, and potentially hers. Ask in writing.

DonDaddyD wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

The same company had me get rid of receptionists because they were fat. I felt like a complete b!tch doing so, not least because it's illegal so I had to concoct all manner of silly excuses. But it's their company, their rules.

Yeah, see that's a line I wouldn't cross. It may be their company but there are rules and laws that protect people working within any company. Also from a sheer ethical standpoint its just worng.

Not enough money in the World could make me sell my soul or my principles.

Ooh I sense handbags. I take your point DDD, but given the state of the economy last year I'd put job security over ethics to an extent so can see Liv's point.

No handbags. LiT's knows or should know that I got mad respect for her. I disagree with her decision but that's all. I couldn't work in that kind of environment because that's the type of person I am. LiTs can, doesn't mean either of us are better than each other. Just different people.

Actually, this was in 2005-ish. Economy was fine. Very image-conscious high end development company wanted their 'front of house' to be a highly attractive girl, wanted me and all other PAs in heels and skirts. I did what I was told.

I did feel bad about it, though, particularly as I'm far from skinny myself. I regularly asked them why on earth I still worked there.

dilemna

Always Tyred wrote:

Look, I think I know where she's coming from.

All that I can do is tow the line, but to let it be known where my personal boundaries are, so as to mitigate the problem. I can tolerate having my ars* kicked indefinitely, providing that I make it too much hassle to kick my ars* so hard that I can't tolerate it any more.

If that makes sense.

So I'm trying to let it be known that I take the point, I shaved, I got new clothes and that's enough now.

Of course this thread is pointless without a few pics :roll: .

always_tyred

lost_in_thought wrote:

AT, d'you think she fancies you or did? Irrespective of whether you're in a relationship it's worth trying to work that out.

Look, I'm stunning. What can I say? I'd use my face as my avatar, but I'd get more hassle than you, LiT.

lost_in_thought

Always Tyred wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

AT, d'you think she fancies you or did? Irrespective of whether you're in a relationship it's worth trying to work that out.

Look, I'm stunning. What can I say? I'd use my face as my avatar, but I'd get more hassle than you, LiT.

Well then, put the poor woman out of her misery! How d'you think I got from receptionist to asset manager in 3 years?


NB. This is a joke.

greg66_tri_v2.0

lost_in_thought wrote:

Oooh blimey, I go out for a bike ride (yay) (also blarghzzzz) (and brrr) and it's all getting a lot more interesting over here!

AT, d'you think she fancies you or did? Irrespective of whether you're in a relationship it's worth trying to work that out. Could explain why she's being a cow. I really think (although I don't know the person) that a one-to-one 'chat' where you just ask her if there's something going on would be a good thing for your sanity, and potentially hers. Ask in writing.

Course she does! This thread should have been titled "Help! My lady-boss has a lady-boner and it's got my name on it!", by StudleyTyred. Although I'm not sure the content would have been different.

A one-to-one chat is a good suggestion. Over a bottle of red wine, in the corner of an intimate and low-lit bistro, the deep fat fryer sizzling gently in the background, and a few locals fighting outside ... "So, babes, what's going on?" :twisted:

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

The same company had me get rid of receptionists because they were fat. I felt like a complete b!tch doing so, not least because it's illegal so I had to concoct all manner of silly excuses. But it's their company, their rules.

Yeah, see that's a line I wouldn't cross. It may be their company but there are rules and laws that protect people working within any company. Also from a sheer ethical standpoint its just worng.

Not enough money in the World could make me sell my soul or my principles.

Ooh I sense handbags. I take your point DDD, but given the state of the economy last year I'd put job security over ethics to an extent so can see Liv's point.

No handbags. LiT's knows or should know that I got mad respect for her. I disagree with her decision but that's all. I couldn't work in that kind of environment because that's the type of person I am. LiTs can, doesn't mean either of us are better than each other. Just different people.

Actually, this was in 2005-ish. Economy was fine. Very image-conscious high end development company wanted their 'front of house' to be a highly attractive girl, wanted me and all other PAs in heels and skirts. I did what I was told.

I did feel bad about it, though, particularly as I'm far from skinny myself. I regularly asked them why on earth I still worked there.

Presumably there was a health & safety issue though, in that they might have blocked the exits in the event of a fire.

Whenever I've been given this job, I've always been careful to keep a couple of people on who are slightly lardier than me.

Always thinking, me. Always one step ahead. :idea:

lost_in_thought

UndercoverElephant

Greg66 wrote:

Course she does! This thread should have been titled "Help! My lady-boss has a lady-boner and it's got my name on it!", by StudleyTyred.

In the recent weather, he's been laughing.

biondino

It's true though, this thread is worthless without pics, ideally of you both. Perhaps you do dress scruffily and don't realise it? Lots of people do.

I think they probably can ask you to shave daily, though if it's sore and blotchy I fully understand why you don't. Would a full beard be acceptable? Always a thought.

always_tyred

lost_in_thought wrote:

Well then, put the poor woman out of her misery!

Is it okay if I don't?

DonDaddyD

That is very funny.

---

AT,

Man up. If you know there isn't anything wrong with your attire and how you carry yourself then confront the issue (in the most professional manner), stand your ground, gain your respect and then after you've won go to the gents toilet to look at yourself in the mirror and kiss your biceps.

Wallace1492

Greg66 wrote:

Over a bottle of red wine, in the corner of an intimate and low-lit bistro, the deep fat fryer sizzling gently in the background, and a few locals fighting outside ... "So, babes, what's going on?" :twisted:

Red wine? Surely Devon's finest tonic wine!! It reaches the parts that others just fail to reach....

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

That is very funny.

---

AT,

Man up. If you know there isn't anything wrong with your attire and how you carry yourself then confront the issue (in the most professional manner), stand your ground, gain your respect and then after you've won go to the gents toilet to look at yourself in the mirror and kiss your biceps.

Now *that* was proper laugh-out-loud funny!

rolf_f

biondino wrote:

It's true though, this thread is worthless without pics, ideally of you both. Perhaps you do dress scruffily and don't realise it? Lots of people do.

I think they probably can ask you to shave daily, though if it's sore and blotchy I fully understand why you don't. Would a full beard be acceptable? Always a thought.

I'm sure AT trying to surrepticiously photograph his boss is really going to help the situation

Wallace1492

Rolf F wrote:

biondino wrote:

It's true though, this thread is worthless without pics, ideally of you both. Perhaps you do dress scruffily and don't realise it? Lots of people do.

I think they probably can ask you to shave daily, though if it's sore and blotchy I fully understand why you don't. Would a full beard be acceptable? Always a thought.

I'm sure AT trying to surrepticiously photograph his boss is really going to help the situation

Got a picture of them together!!

greg66_tri_v2.0

Hmm.

She's not very skilled at putting on her makeup, is she? I'm almost certain that's not how to apply mascara.