London Calling

benpinnick

Hmm, I will check into that, its a funny way to go about it. Lots of lost people all the time!

I was thinking something like this at the start and end of each trail.

diy

No you can't do anything like that - it could be used to establish a RoW claim, which no land owner would want.

natrix

benpinnick wrote:

Hmm, I will check into that, its a funny way to go about it. Lots of lost people all the time!

I was thinking something like this at the start and end of each trail.

Swinley is private property, the Crown Estate kindly allow mountain bikers to use it (with a permit) how would you like it if somebody started putting signs up in your garden???

benpinnick

Err, no. I was going to ask!

benpinnick

diy wrote:

No you can't do anything like that - it could be used to establish a RoW claim, which no land owner would want.

Interesting point.... That would be a problem.

natrix

benpinnick wrote:

Err, no. I was going to ask!

Ask here if you like http://www.gorrick.com/swinley/index.php but the answer will be 'no way'

Anonymous

Hurtwood may be more compliant as the ranger is a decent bloke and they're roughly on the MTB side, but only would apply to the official trails, which is just BKB and Yog Pots. Similar to the sign posting of Summer Lightning over on Leith (which is Redlands Trails managed and NT land).

Sign posts cost money to maintain which is probably why they haven't bothered but they have stuck up little notices on occasions.

Swinley is more of a problem as it's the estate who seem to have a funny attitude about it, especially not wanting to encourage mountain biking and yet allowing mountain biking and profiting from it.

As for private, Crown Estate property is not actually the private property of the monarch. It's owned by the monarch but they don't have rights over it and can't sell it, and money from it goes into the treasury. It's independently run on behalf of the monarch & gov by the estate management. In a way it belongs to the people really as we technically pay for it and get the money from it, but doesn't make public rights of way on the lands.

Oh and the permit thing is in the main to pay for liability insurance. Supposedly in case one person crashes into another, but I think more likely to cover the estate getting sued. Little of the permit actually benefits the people who use the place, even though a small amount goes into management and a very tiny amount remaining in theory goes to trail building (volunteers from BoB and Gorrick).

cooldad

Ben seems to good at raising Gorrick hackles. Last time was a grumpy woman who wanted to know if he was a professional instructor for trying to demonstrate bunnyhops.


Note certain artistic licence has been taken in this representation of Ben bunnyhopping.

ThePriory1978

benpinnick wrote:

Hmm, I will check into that, its a funny way to go about it. Lots of lost people all the time!

I was thinking something like this at the start and end of each trail.

A good friend tried something similar a over a month back. Lamenated A4 cards pinned to trees at beginning and end of trails with name, direction, length and skill level but not as detailed as yours.

Put them up, out of reach from vandals on a Wednesday night ride at Tanktraps, Seagull and Stickler as a test. He didnt ask permission. They were gone by Friday.

Good idea but it'll never happen.

A Ben was here sign has more chance of remaining at Swinley than helpful info.

natrix

if you look at http://www.gorrick.com/swinley/permits.php
You’ll see that it says:

“Swinley Forest is part of a Special Protection Area under the European Birds Directive for four species of rare birds. This directive gives far reaching powers over the suitablility of activities that take place in the forest. “

Because of this SPA status the Crown Estate are obliged to limit the amount of mountain biking in the forest. This is why they have specifically requested that 1) there is no publically available map of the trails 2) the trails are not signposted and 3) that cycling magazines do not publicise mountain biking in Swinley Forest.

benpinnick

I guess its pretty funny then, that Gorrick and BoB both advertise the MBUK article publicising the Swinley trails. Equally odd is that fact that the site asks you to stay on the marked trails. I think there are about 2 trail markers in the whole forest! When you want to control the use of trails in the forest, the first step is probably to define the trails in the forest, otherwise you're controlling nothing. Also, if they did actually publicise the trails, they could use that to remind people that there is a requirement to have a permit. A simple SMS service detailed on each marker could probably generate more income and ensure that people had permits (whose take up right now is laughable, lets be honest).

Hey it was just a thought. I will go back to doing something more profitable now.

diy

All bets are off then. It could be a criminal offence.

Anonymous

It's a good idea, just that Swinley's always been awkward. I don't entirely buy the rare bird excuse. They're in areas cut off from the bikes, or are supposed to be, and marked managed trails would help ensure the bikes stick to where they should be. Also interesting that BoB are given special permission to "show you around" and only they can say where trails are, after they've assessed you and you've paid up membership of course

And yeah, Swinley's been mentioned many times in the biking press including trail reports and guides.

It's a trail centre basically now in all but name, whether they like it or not and either they try to pretend it's still all secret when it isn't, or they do something to manage things a bit.

That said, it's kind of nice to go there many times and find new bits you didn't know about rather than just see it all in one go the first time and then get bored.

benpinnick

Quite, you'd have to believe in fairies before you could believe some of the stuff you hear. I'd be happy to work with Gorrick on it though, so maybe if I have the time I'll pen an email...

Blind Danny Johnson

benpinnick wrote:

I guess its pretty funny then, that Gorrick and BoB both advertise the MBUK article publicising the Swinley trails. Equally odd is that fact that the site asks you to stay on the marked trails. I think there are about 2 trail markers in the whole forest! When you want to control the use of trails in the forest, the first step is probably to define the trails in the forest, otherwise you're controlling nothing. Also, if they did actually publicise the trails, they could use that to remind people that there is a requirement to have a permit. A simple SMS service detailed on each marker could probably generate more income and ensure that people had permits (whose take up right now is laughable, lets be honest).

Hey it was just a thought. I will go back to doing something more profitable now.

Reckon it's worth asking! They can only say no. It would be sweet if they let you do it as I for one would find those trail markers you've knocked up really helpful.

benpinnick

So I sent two emails, and got an email back from Gorrick, and a call from the Crown Estate! Very good service I must say. Interesting chat with John from CE. He told me that the Swinley trails are being looked at now, with the intent to roll out something in the foreseeable. They've engaged Rowan Sorrell to look at the trail infrastructure, and come up with some trail plans for further development and possibly creating some formalised loops.

Sounds good, and they've shown real determination to move something forward. I've asked to be kept in the loop, and I will update you all as it progresses.

benpinnick

Also, mapping is currently actively discouraged, and for good reason, at least for now. As of now I wont post the big loop map any further, although anyone who wants a copy can still PM me.

diy

I think the bird thing is just an income generator as they can claim money from the EU (i.e. british tax payer) to cover the cost of management. wrt to better trails, don't be surprised if its coupled with higher fees. To be fair though paying more to park at a properly developed trail is not unreasonable.

benpinnick

I don't mind paying, in fact I do pay my permit charge every year. I think it would be good if everyone paid though, that way they'd not need to raise the charges. I reckon they cant get more that 20% of their due income every year, which is a shame. Perhaps charging for parking is the simple solution, maybe its something else. At £2 a pop its pretty reasonable after all.

Anonymous

Great to hear you got a good chat with them and sounds like positive things going forward.

I do wonder if they'll go for making it a proper trail centre ultimately.

They are seriously considering the parking charges and there may be a shake up with the permit system as a result as it's unlikely they'll be able to charge for both. Though I don't like the proposed amounts ('per hour' charges!).

milko9000

Yeah, I think I'd find it a bit off to want a parking fee AND a permit fee. That said, the annual permit is good value considering the parking and all the trail maintenance. I think I'd rather see that go up a bit than hourly parking, surely there'd have to be a reasonable 'over 3 hours' charge rather than just incrementing it every hour for a whole day?

natrix

deadkenny wrote:

They are seriously considering the parking charges

As far as I'm aware, (I asked Gorrick about this) parking charges are 'wishful thinking' by Bracknell Council, who rent the land from the Crown Estate.

The rare birds might be a bit of a nuisance at times, but without them Swinley (along with Tunnel Hill, Minley etc etc)would probably be covered in houses by now

benpinnick

S'ok, you can all come and park at my house... errr maybe.

thel33ter

Or park over on the Bagshot side, easy ride in straight to the Clubhouse from there.

DHA987S

How fit do you have to be to come along on one of your rides?

I ride the surrey hills (went to swinley earlier in the year but only did a short ride as was with a workmate who doesn't ride often) and have done telegraph and yoghurt pots, but am probably slow due technique/lack of balls.

thel33ter

There is a huge range, as long as you can ride a bike for 3 hours or so you'll keep up just fine. Riding with a group is also a great way to build up technique.

cooldad

Not very fit. I manage. We tend to rest quite a bit. Welcome to come along, we ride for fun.

sobol

Hi All
It looks like a good weather this Saturday/Sunday in Swinley Forest.
Is anyone going?

I've been there several times, most of the time starting at Lookout and going to the gully via nice single track.
Once there I would do all neighbour riding i.e. freeride/downhill like baby maker.

I was wonder if there is more singletrack that is more suitable for my current bike.

Regards,
SoboL

cooldad

I was considering Sunday - plenty of other singletrack, but as I've no idea what your bike is, no idea what would be suitable.

ThePriory1978

Anybody else riding the Gorrick Brass Monkeys Enduro race event this Sunday?
Just over the way from Swinley Forest at Porridgepot Hill.
4 hours of 7 mile race laps in the freezing cold