OT: HTC HD2 vs. iPhone

greg66_tri_v2.0

cee wrote:

the iphone was ruled out because work email is not truly encrypted on the device. it is on both blackberry and winmob.

That's quite interesting.

Because I know that there's a branch of the Govt that uses encrypted iphones. And secure comms are pretty high on their list of must haves.

cee

Greg66 wrote:

cee wrote:

the iphone was ruled out because work email is not truly encrypted on the device. it is on both blackberry and winmob.

That's quite interesting.

Because I know that there's a branch of the Govt that uses encrypted iphones. And secure comms are pretty high on their list of must haves.

while technically the data is encrypted (as i described in my post), this would be easily circumvented using JailBreak. that department have not fully done their research.

the fact is... all encryption is breakable.....so winmob and blackberry won't be immune, but the JailBreak app can be downloaded and works in about 2 minutes compared to the many hours of computing power it would take to crack true 128bit RSA encryption (like on winmob and blackberry).

the other interesting thing this govt department have failed to notice is that you cannot use the remote wipe function of exchange on iphone. so if a handset goes missing....getting the data is really easy.

if a winmob handset goes missing, it can be wiped remotely, or failing that, the new 'owner' will have much pain to crack the real encryption.

i will try to find the whitepaper and post a link....

greg66_tri_v2.0

cee wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

cee wrote:

the iphone was ruled out because work email is not truly encrypted on the device. it is on both blackberry and winmob.

That's quite interesting.

Because I know that there's a branch of the Govt that uses encrypted iphones. And secure comms are pretty high on their list of must haves.

while technically the data is encrypted (as i described in my post), this would be easily circumvented using JailBreak. that department have not fully done their research.

the fact is... all encryption is breakable.....so winmob and blackberry won't be immune, but the JailBreak app can be downloaded and works in about 2 minutes compared to the many hours of computing power it would take to crack true 128bit RSA encryption (like on winmob and blackberry).

the other interesting thing this govt department have failed to notice is that you cannot use the remote wipe function of exchange on iphone. so if a handset goes missing....getting the data is really easy.

if a winmob handset goes missing, it can be wiped remotely, or failing that, the new 'owner' will have much pain to crack the real encryption.

i will try to find the whitepaper and post a link....

I'm not disputing what you say, but I suspect this dept may be using a bespoke solution that they are keeping to themselves.

Or they really are taking a pretty big risk...

Clever Pun

unscarred wrote:

If you want something pretty, buy an iPhone.
If you want functionality, buy something else.

For true geek-chic, you want the Nokia N900. Without doubt the most capable phone on sale today - but you'll probably have to wait as it's only just started shipping.

not got one have you? there are some amazingly useful apps out there. It's great

if you want a business phone get a blackberry

il_principe

Clever Pun wrote:

unscarred wrote:

If you want something pretty, buy an iPhone.
If you want functionality, buy something else.

For true geek-chic, you want the Nokia N900. Without doubt the most capable phone on sale today - but you'll probably have to wait as it's only just started shipping.

not got one have you? there are some amazingly useful apps out there. It's great

if you want a business phone get a blackberry

+1 to CP and Greg66. The iPhone just works. People that work in IT will tell you different but for us normal folk it's a great phone and some of the apps are excellent. Plus if can be wiped remotely if you use mobile me, is a cinch to use and setup. I've had an iPhone since the off and it's hands down the best phone I have ever used.

cee

Greg66 wrote:

I'm not disputing what you say, but I suspect this dept may be using a bespoke solution that they are keeping to themselves.

Or they really are taking a pretty big risk...

I doubt they have a bespoke solution. if they do, details of their dev process would be very interesting to see...(there are two options...secret deal with apple - not likely, JailBreak'd iphones - see previous problems)

one of the plus points about the iphone is that the development of software is very tightly controlled by apple. this means that everything you get from the appstore works is guaranteed to work. the downside is that you cannot just roll your own apps and install them (unless you JailBreak the iphone...see previous problems associated with this!)... we have tried a couple of backdoor methods with no success at all....to get anything installed...even helloworld!

wouldn't be like a supposed secure comms govt department to take risks

don't get me wrong..i don't have a downer on the iphone....if it was for personal use, I would might choose one, they are certainly very nifty....

artaxerxes

I guess we are a bit more relaxed (or complacent?) in our policies. I just set up the iPhone with a password, and if it is entered incorrectly 5 times, the phone is wiped.

cee

oh...and one more point.....(sorry...i appreciate this is a deviation and is probably boring to most folks.:oops: )

even if this dept has somehow gotten a top secret truly encrypted mail app on their iphones....if the handset goes missing....the new 'owner' will not need to unlock the device...

they would just JailBreak it, then open that app and thus be able to read any email.

(artaxerxes this is how one would get round your companies policy...you don't need that pin code to unlock the phone.)

the more i think about it, the more I come to your second option 'Or they are taking a huge risk'.

Its not really their fault...Apple says that mail is encrytped.....they just don't say how

bradford

Always Tyred wrote:

You missed out the "Get a Life" option.

+1 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!! :roll:

DonDaddyD

cee wrote:

oh...and one more point.....(sorry...i appreciate this is a deviation and is probably boring to most folks.:oops: )

No worries I find this interesting.

i will try to find the whitepaper and post a link....

Ha! This made me laugh. Next time I even get a hint of disagreement I'm using that one! Especially on my comic book site.

unscarred

No I don't have one, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion, does it? I've used them, from friends who own them and in stores, and I've done my research.

I considered an iphone when they first came out, but given that hardware was below the spec of my Nokia N95 I rejected it, especially as it didn't have features I use regularly, e.g. decent camera, bluetooth file transfer, tethered modem...

The 3GS has caught up somewhat, but it still lags behind the Nokia N900 in the quality of the camera, battery, bluetooth support, expandable memory, screen resolution, multi-tasking and user control. It's ahead on weight (46g - mainly from having no physical keyboard), onboard compass and multitouch.

The clincher for me is the user control and the community support, but admittedly that's because I'm a geek.

cee

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ha! This made me laugh. Next time I even get a hint of disagreement I'm using that one! Especially on my comic book site.

glad to be of service

Stuey01

The mail encryption (lack of decent encryption, non-remote wipe) is the reason they got canned during trial at my workplace. (a major High Street Bank)

cee

Stuey01 wrote:

The mail encryption (lack of decent encryption, non-remote wipe) is the reason they got canned during trial at my workplace. (a major High Street Bank)

hmmm....

i wonder if we were involved in that process.....we have been involved in iphone debates with a number of financial institutions....

however even if i knew where you worked, i could neither confirm nor deny any involvment with them!

DonDaddyD

I'm still no closer to deciding. The contract on T-mobile is quite something. If T-mobile was offering the iphone, I would go for that. But they don't and so I'm going for the next best option hoping it is somewhat better.

I'm tempted by the HTC HD2 but it is a social do everything phone that may double up as my work organiser and that admittingly is what the iphone is.

But do I want to be an isheep... "one of us" "one of us" I do but I don't.

Stuey01

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm still no closer to deciding. The contract on T-mobile is quite something. If T-mobile was offering the iphone, I would go for that. But they don't and so I'm going for the next best option hoping it is somewhat better.

I'm tempted by the HTC HD2 but it is a social do everything phone that may double up as my work organiser and that admittingly is what the iphone is.

But do I want to be an isheep... "one of us" "one of us" I do but I don't.

How much will you really use all the things on the contract?
Free international calls is awesome, if you use it regularly. The rest of it seems a bit "meh" to me.
My iphone contract costs me on average £25 a month, that is more minutes and texts than I could ever use (i think it is 500 of each per month) and unlimited UK data, wifi cloud access. Granted I got a 1/3rd off through a friends and family hook up, but even without that it is competitive with your t-mobile deal, with the exception of the international calls.
Does your t-mobile deal include international data? if so that would be a clincher for me, otherwise it's not that great a deal I don't think.

Can you get the HTC Hero android phone? that would be a much closer comparison with the iphone.

DonDaddyD

Stuey01 wrote:

How much will you really use all the things on the contract?
Free international calls is awesome, if you use it regularly. The rest of it seems a bit "meh" to me.
My iphone contract costs me on average £25 a month, that is more minutes and texts than I could ever use (i think it is 500 of each per month) and unlimited UK data, wifi cloud access. Granted I got a 1/3rd off through a friends and family hook up, but even without that it is competitive with your t-mobile deal, with the exception of the international calls.
Does your t-mobile deal include international data? if so that would be a clincher for me, otherwise it's not that great a deal I don't think.

Can you get the HTC Hero android phone? that would be a much closer comparison with the iphone.

Truthfully, I have no house phone. I have no house phone, because it broke and I can't be arsed replacing it despite having a telephone line and line rental to use the internet. So I have to use my mobile to call 08 numbers. Everything on the contract I will use including internation calls though not often, it is nice to have.

DonDaddyD

So if I got the iphone, would it be worth getting it now or waiting until the new one?

If I got it I would have to get the 2year contract. I don't want to pay £100 - £200 for it.

Porta105

Go for the HTC Hero, absolutely quality android phone plus most of the apps are free as the app store is not run by money grabbing a'holes.

Also, there's an app where it'll log your gps etc so you can upload ride statistics when you're home, haven't tried it out yet as I'm waiting on my new steed.

fury21

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm still no closer to deciding. The contract on T-mobile is quite something. If T-mobile was offering the iphone, I would go for that. But they don't and so I'm going for the next best option hoping it is somewhat better.

Funny thing is, I left T-mobile 3 weeks ago because I was getting an iPhone and they offered to supply me with an iPhone plus more texts and minutes that either Orange or O2 if I stayed. This isn't something that they advertise, but might be worth asking about.

Unfortunately, they were out of 3GS models at the time or I'd have been tempted.

DonDaddyD wrote:

So if I got the iphone, would it be worth getting it now or waiting until the new one?

Your choice, but there'll always be a "new" one. Like any technology, as soon as you get it, it starts to be out of date.


Working in web development, an iPhone was inevitable, not because I have to follow the crowd, but because of the culture shift. People are building/wanting iPhone apps (and no, they don't all have to go through the app store). Not having one was like trying to work with computers when all you have is a pen and paper.

As for Android, I feel its simply not *there* yet. It hasn't achieved the same sort of critical mass as the iPhone. It may do soon, but not yet.

As for choosing who you're getting into bed with, I'm happier with Apple than either Microsoft or Google these days.

DonDaddyD

fury21 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I'm still no closer to deciding. The contract on T-mobile is quite something. If T-mobile was offering the iphone, I would go for that. But they don't and so I'm going for the next best option hoping it is somewhat better.

Funny thing is, I left T-mobile 3 weeks ago because I was getting an iPhone and they offered to supply me with an iPhone plus more texts and minutes that either Orange or O2 if I stayed. This isn't something that they advertise, but might be worth asking about.

I had heard about this but didn't want to say. They're mereging with Orange and are probably going to launch them in the new year.

Thanks for confirming. I'll report back.

fury21

And completely unsolicited, just saw this in my Twitter stream...

Just played with a Nokia N900. What an utter piece of crap.

DonDaddyD

The Nokia was bound to be a piece of crap.

Just phoned T-mobile. Did everything I could except say "Look, I know you've got them. You know you've got them."

Instead I got told how to request my PAC code. So I think that's it, 02 here I come.

Can I live with a 3Gs for 2years?

Stuey01

DonDaddyD wrote:

Truthfully, I have no house phone. I have no house phone, because it broke and I can't be arsed replacing it despite having a telephone line and line rental to use the internet. So I have to use my mobile to call 08 numbers. Everything on the contract I will use including internation calls though not often, it is nice to have.

I also have no house phone, at least not one that I ever use, I only have it for the broadband. I have not found the calls to 08 numbers from my mobile to be prohibitive, even with recent plentiful and lengthy calls to my credit card provider's helpline. (an 0845 number).
Really how often are you calling these numbers?

We're not talking big money here, I'd just get whichever one you want the most.

Re: waiting for the new one... with a 2 year contract you are going to have to accept that it will be replaced at some point by the latest and greatest.
It is unlikely that the next release is going to be until at least next summer, can you wait that long?

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

Can I live with a 3Gs for 2years?

It's inevitable that Apple will release a new version of the iphone within the next 2 years.

The factors you have to balance are: how long before a 4G iphone is likely to hit the market (that might be well into the two year period, if not beyond it); what about if Apple add features to the existing 3GS, or speed it up (a 3GSTI++); will you be happy tied into the rump of a two year contract if there's no cheap migration route to the latest toy?

I reckon you'll be fine.

But get yer music in iTunes and sort your contacts in Outlook so that first names are in the first name field and surnames are in the surname field...

DonDaddyD

Stuey01 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Truthfully, I have no house phone. I have no house phone, because it broke and I can't be arsed replacing it despite having a telephone line and line rental to use the internet. So I have to use my mobile to call 08 numbers. Everything on the contract I will use including internation calls though not often, it is nice to have.

I also have no house phone, at least not one that I ever use, I only have it for the broadband. I have not found the calls to 08 numbers from my mobile to be prohibitive, even with recent plentiful and lengthy calls to my credit card provider's helpline. (an 0845 number).
Really how often are you calling these numbers?

We're not talking big money here, I'd just get whichever one you want the most.

Re: waiting for the new one... with a 2 year contract you are going to have to accept that it will be replaced at some point by the latest and greatest.
It is unlikely that the next release is going to be until at least next summer, can you wait that long?

Truthfully the 08 numbers aren't that much of a hassle. I'd prefer to pay less than £44 a month for line rental, but don't want to pay any money for a phone.

Truthfully, now I know I can have something, no, no I can't wait.

DonDaddyD

Greg66 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Can I live with a 3Gs for 2years?

It's inevitable that Apple will release a new version of the iphone within the next 2 years.

The factors you have to balance are: how long before a 4G iphone is likely to hit the market (that might be well into the two year period, if not beyond it); what about if Apple add features to the existing 3GS, or speed it up (a 3GSTI++); will you be happy tied into the rump of a two year contract if there's no cheap migration route to the latest toy?

I reckon you'll be fine.

But get yer music in iTunes and sort your contacts in Outlook so that first names are in the first name field and surnames are in the surname field...

Current trend is that the 4th iteration of the ipod will be out June 2010. I can't wait that long, now they've told me I can have one.

OLED screen, radio, maybe thinner, faster, ability to multitask and a better camera with flash will probably be the most noticable additions. (Things I'm not really fussed about).

Technology suggests that the 3Gs won't be too far apart from its replacement and only worth replacing when the one after that comes around.

artaxerxes

Just get the iPhone, you won't regret it.
If you get the HTC Hero, you'll win some kudos points with some pasty faced bod from the IT dept. If you get the iPhone, you will have women on their knees worshiping your awesomeness.

...well thats what O2 told me anyway...

Stuey01

Has anybody used the Palm Pre yet?

mickbrown

I have the same dilemma - iPhone or Hero.

Change my mind every day - got to make my mind up next week. It's iPhone today

Another thing - what's this wifi cloud business?