The poppy

brownleather

teagar wrote:

The poppy is a symbol of British sacrifices, because of the poppy fields that grew between UK and German trenches etc.

Given that I don't particularly identify myself as being British, I think that's reasonable!

As I've just said, Remembrance day is about remembering EVERYONE who died. But it is right that the RBL support our Vets, other countries can look after their own financially.

teagar

johnfinch wrote:

teagar wrote:

For me the disupute isn't showing respect to soldiers. Sure they get my respect.

The dispute is that it seems to me that the poppy symbolises respect for people who have died for a British cause, rather than, people who have died in war, period.

Since I'm not comfortable with that distinction, I choose not to wear one.

What about the white poppy?

Seems to draw plenty of unecessary attention, since there's debate about it. There are "opponants" of white poppies according to wiki.

I'll just keep doing my own thing, not sh!t on any soldiers who return for war and allow anyone else to respect and remember who they want.

pabloweaver

you wear a poppy to acknowledge the fact you can have the liberty to come on here and argue about it ...

it has nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of goverments but the lives and losses of generations.

the politics are irrelevant , the dead are not .

Celtic fans take note.

softlad

teagar wrote:

Given that I don't particularly identify myself as being British, I think that's reasonable!

I didn't realise you were not British. As a matter of interest, how is remembrance conducted in your own particular country of origin...?

northstar

softlad wrote:

teagar wrote:

For me the disupute isn't showing respect to soldiers. Sure they get my respect.

The dispute is that it seems to me that the poppy symbolises respect for people who have died for a British cause, rather than, people who have died in war, period.

Since I'm not comfortable with that distinction, I choose not to wear one.

two reasons to wear it:

1 - to show respect for those who have died in the service of their country. In another time, that could equally have been your or I.
2 - to raise money for the injured from those conflicts - many of whom are still suffering decades after.

Which of those two reasons are you not comfortable with..?

Why should he have to wear it?

You can still respect people in your own quiet way without feeling the need to put it on show.

teagar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_of_the_Dead

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation ... etherlands)

brownleather

teagar

Having read your posts about your dissertation in racism, you sound like the sort of PC Brigade that like being politicians, and like to send our troops off to die. No disrespect like, but politicians are generally scum.

whyamihere

I don't wear one. Never have done.

I stick money in the box every year, but refuse the actual poppy. The only charity symbol I wear is a LiveStrong band, and that's more because it tends to be a cycling symbol rather than displaying that I've given to the charity.

pabloweaver

whyamihere wrote:

I don't wear one. Never have done.

I stick money in the box every year, but refuse the actual poppy. The only charity symbol I wear is a LiveStrong band, and that's more because it tends to be a cycling symbol rather than displaying that I've given to the charity.

I see more non cyclists wearing them than cyclists.....

I repeat ...politics are irrelevant , the dead are not.

pabloweaver

in Memory of
Private GEORGE HANKINSON

3528829, 1st Bn., Manchester Regiment
who died age 27
on 13 March 1944
Son of Ann Jane Hankinson, of Ashton-in-Makerfield, Lancashire.
Remembered with honour
KANCHANABURI WAR CEMETERY

My great Uncle , DIed a Japanese POW

wish you could explain to him how Poppies are not " acceptable "

I'm sure many more on here have similar family stories ...

http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14

teagar

brownleather wrote:

teagar

Having read your posts about your dissertation in racism, you sound like the sort of PC Brigade that like being politicians, and like to send our troops off to die. No disrespect like, but politicians are generally scum.

Err?

Can't say I've ever been in favour of a war in my lifetime?

I can't see why that was strictly necessary.

You can wear what you like - I don't particularly agree with wearing one myself. Doesn't mean you can't!

Anonymous

There are people on this thread who have now shown true colours. To deny the symbol of respect the poppy represents is the price of liberty that you can choose to wear it or not. Choice comes down to the fact that a lot of the armed forces of this country did not have a choice and fought and died for your liberty, your freedom to do what you want, worship, study and lifestyle.

The people on here who believe it is wrong to wear a poppy have a choice. They set themselves apart from others due to their beliefs which I feel sums up the whole reason everyone in the UK regardless of country of origin, creed or colour can honour those that ultimately gave them that freedom. it is offensive, it is a snub and I urge you to think again.

softlad

teagar wrote:

Err?

Can't say I've ever been in favour of a war in my lifetime?

I can't see why that was strictly necessary.

You can wear what you like - I don't particularly agree with wearing one myself. Doesn't mean you can't!

teagar - you didn't answer my previous question - I asked you how remembrance was conducted in your particular country of origin..??

teagar

softlad wrote:

teagar wrote:

Err?

Can't say I've ever been in favour of a war in my lifetime?

I can't see why that was strictly necessary.

You can wear what you like - I don't particularly agree with wearing one myself. Doesn't mean you can't!

teagar - you didn't answer my previous question - I asked you how remembrance was conducted in your particular country of origin..??

Yes i did?

Anonymous

iainment wrote:

softlad wrote:

teagar wrote:

For me the disupute isn't showing respect to soldiers. Sure they get my respect.

The dispute is that it seems to me that the poppy symbolises respect for people who have died for a British cause, rather than, people who have died in war, period.

Since I'm not comfortable with that distinction, I choose not to wear one.

two reasons to wear it:

1 - to show respect for those who have died in the service of their country. In another time, that could equally have been your or I.
2 - to raise money for the injured from those conflicts - many of whom are still suffering decades after.

Which of those two reasons are you not comfortable with..?

I don't buy or wear a poppy.
I give to other charities on a regular basis.
Like others on here I don't see why the public have to cough up , it should be the state paying any and all costs for soldiers injured in politicians wars. If there was a readily available white poppy I probably would buy that though.
That doesn't mean that I disrespect anyone.

Pip pip.

Sorry, you just did.

pabloweaver

teagar wrote:

softlad wrote:

teagar wrote:

Err?

Can't say I've ever been in favour of a war in my lifetime?

I can't see why that was strictly necessary.

You can wear what you like - I don't particularly agree with wearing one myself. Doesn't mean you can't!

teagar - you didn't answer my previous question - I asked you how remembrance was conducted in your particular country of origin..??

Yes i did?

"The nation was liberated largely by Canadian troops, with the assistance of the British and American Armies "

funny thing history , it has a habit of raising awkward truths ..........

northstar

Sorry, you just did.

You seem a bit oversensitive about this issue.

He has made a personal choice, it doesn't mean he has disrespected anyone.

brownleather

northstar wrote:

Sorry, you just did.

You seem a bit oversensitive about this issue.

So would I be, if I had been at the pointy end too.

DaSy

I cannot believe that anyone even vaguely familiar with 20th century history would not wear a poppy to show respect for the amazing sacrifices allied troops made in the Ist and 2nd World Wars alone.

I do have to disagree with Disgruntled Goat on the Iran Iraq war being the bloodiest; around half a million died in total, compared with WW1 which sacrificed around 1.5 million in the battle of the Somme alone. This is far from a dig by the way, just that WW1 history reduces me to tears at the mere thought of the incredible sacrifice of life that people willingly did to keep their country free. These were everyday people like you and me, buddy regiments from banks, factories etc, who went to their death to keep us all free from tyranny.

A poppy is about the least I can do to respect the people who will lay their lives down to keep us free. The soldiers who fight for their country will always have my undying respect and admiration.

Millions of Jews died during WWII, and the Germans defeat at the hands of the allied troops is all that prevented their total genocide, to say that you don't believe in war is naive, sometimes it is just unavoidable if you wish to see a civilised society survive.

Anonymous

northstar wrote:

Sorry, you just did.

You seem a bit oversensitive about this issue.

He has made a personal choice, it doesn't mean he has disrespected anyone.

Different opinions you see. I have a different perspective you see. I served in NI, Bosnia, Angola and the first Gulf War. I base my beliefs on what I have done, seen and the blokes I was with. What he said disrespects the memory of friends and other guys I knew who are not with us now. If I seem "overly sensitive" as you succinctly put it, you are absolutely right.

garrynolan

I live in Dublin - been a debate here on Q102 (radio station) about wearing a poppy. Personally, if I could get one, I'd wear it. Those against were mostly using the 1916 Easter Rising as a reason for not wearing a poppy - Britain at war, some locals took advantage of this to stage a coup (Ireland was ruled by Britain at this time) to try and gain independence for Ireland. Locals died at the hands of the British soldiers and local constabulary, ergo - won't wear a poppy. Personally, I think isn't a logical reason. A hell of a lot of Irish men/women fought and died in the Great War and WW2. The poppy remembers them! Also... after the rising failed, a lot of the ringleaders were executed - normal procedure back then, regretfully. Later, in the very early '20's Ireland was plunged into a Civil War as a result of independence and the political shenanigans that followed. See the film 'Michael Collins' for a resonably accurate account (for Hollywood) of what happened.

northstar

dmclite wrote:

northstar wrote:

Sorry, you just did.

You seem a bit oversensitive about this issue.

He has made a personal choice, it doesn't mean he has disrespected anyone.

Different opinions you see. I have a different perspective you see. I served in NI, Bosnia, Angola and the first Gulf War. I base my beliefs on what I have done, seen and the blokes I was with. What he said disrespects the memory of friends and other guys I knew who are not with us now. If I seem "overly sensitive" as you succinctly put it, you are absolutely right.

You don't need to point out different opinions, because I can respect other peoples opinion which you seem to have trouble with.

As for joining up to the Army, it doesn't bother me, that was your personal choice.

Anonymous

northstar wrote:

dmclite wrote:

northstar wrote:

Sorry, you just did.

You seem a bit oversensitive about this issue.

He has made a personal choice, it doesn't mean he has disrespected anyone.

Different opinions you see. I have a different perspective you see. I served in NI, Bosnia, Angola and the first Gulf War. I base my beliefs on what I have done, seen and the blokes I was with. What he said disrespects the memory of friends and other guys I knew who are not with us now. If I seem "overly sensitive" as you succinctly put it, you are absolutely right.

You don't need to point out different opinions, because I can respect other peoples opinion which you seem to have trouble with.

As for joining up to the Army, it doesn't bother me, that was your personal choice.

Just offering my opinion too. Also including the reasons for that opinion. Do you have any trouble with that ?

northstar

Not at all, you don't need to be so aggressive with everyone who has a different opinion, I just didn't see the relevance. Why were you in Angola? (the others I obviously know about).

finchy

Anyone know where I can get white poppies?

I want to wear a red one and a white one this year, so that I can respect the dead/help the veterans, but at the same time support peace.

Anonymous

johnfinch wrote:

Anyone know where I can get white poppies?

I want to wear a red one and a white one this year, so that I can respect the dead/help the veterans, but at the same time support peace.

If you can't find one, buy another red one and cut out some white card, I know the money won't get to the charity, but you can still show your support for it. Just an idea.

finchy

dmclite wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Anyone know where I can get white poppies?

I want to wear a red one and a white one this year, so that I can respect the dead/help the veterans, but at the same time support peace.

If you can't find one, buy another red one and cut out some white card, I know the money won't get to the charity, but you can still show your support for it. Just an idea.

Genius! I take my hat off to you!

Reminds me of the first comic relief day. Some kids came into my school with red noses which were just egg cartons painted red ('twas a poor area).

Anonymous

northstar wrote:

Not at all, you don't need to be so aggressive with everyone who has a different opinion, I just didn't see the relevance. Why were you in Angola? (the others I obviously know about).

I was part of the UN, part of UNAVEM III, to stabilise the country and dis-arm guerillas. we also did a lot of de-mining and mine warfare out there. I was out there for 6 months, it was hairy at times.

I don't mean to be aggressive, but when you believe passionately and the only medium is typing on a keyboard, things may get skewed or take on a different tack. Definitely not being aggressive, just passionate and dis-believing of some peoples perceptions.

northstar

Fair play, I know you probably didn't, just came across like that.

I think things get skewed as people view not wearing a poppy as a personal insult when it's just a personal choice, you can still contribute a donation and not wear it.

nasahapley

I simply don't understand how not wearing a poppy means you are not respecting those who have fought for Britain. Respect is something you either feel or you don't and is unrelated to whether you spend a quid to display a cheap bit of plastic on your breast. I bet there are a good many people who wear poppies not because of any deep respect for servicemen but because they feel compelled to by certain newspapers, and don't really think too much about the sacrifices made at all.

I've given what for me is a fair bit of money to the poppy appeal and HFH but I don't wear a poppy; isn't it infinitely more important to actually try and understand and appreciate the sacrifices that have been made for us rather than make sure our respect is conspicuous? All these attempts to bully people into wearing a poppy is rather ironic since the nazis themselves were also quite keen on making people wear certain symbols (stars of david, pink triangles etc). So frankly I don't care a jot for those who think that by not wearing a poppy I can't have respect for the fallen or that I should be ashamed, because you're bang wrong.