The Bruyneel interview

iainf72
iainf72 Posts: 15,784
edited November 2009 in Pro race
Interesting to hear his spin on things.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/bru ... tressfully
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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Comments

  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    Ah you beat me to it!

    I was about to start a thread called 'We might as well Whinge'
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    yes, he certainly has a go at Kazhakstan and Kazhak riders. VDB at 13 sounded like some talent..

    Contador sounds just as mistrustful of LanceA and the mechanics as Lemond. Lemond fingerprinted his own waterbottles at the 1986 TDF, he was that scared.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    Ah you beat me to it!

    I was about to start a thread called 'We might as well Whinge'

    FWIW I read it all and didn't see much in the way of anything unusual. Some personality conflicts. That happens to everyone. As for problems with the countries government,
    jeez, I don't doubt that in the least. Sounds to me like he went to work everyday, played the cards that were dealt to him, and made the best of an imperfect situation. To be honest I've got to believe what HE says, more or less. He was there through it all as opposed to the people who will inevitably chime in, on this subject, claiming to know all
    about everything and they weren't even close to being in the position he was in, yet they know all.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    dennisn wrote:
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    Ah you beat me to it!

    I was about to start a thread called 'We might as well Whinge'

    FWIW I read it all and didn't see much in the way of anything unusual. Some personality conflicts. That happens to everyone. As for problems with the countries government,
    jeez, I don't doubt that in the least. Sounds to me like he went to work everyday, played the cards that were dealt to him, and made the best of an imperfect situation. To be honest I've got to believe what HE says, more or less. He was there through it all as opposed to the people who will inevitably chime in, on this subject, claiming to know all
    about everything and they weren't even close to being in the position he was in, yet they know all.

    he sounds like he made good choices re team selection for the TDF. Let's not forget he took on AC before AC had proven himself, so again, like with the signing of Boonen in 2002, JB clearly knows what he is looking at.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Dave_1 wrote:

    he sounds like he made good choices re team selection for the TDF. Let's not forget he took on AC before AC had proven himself, so again, like with the signing of Boonen in 2002, JB clearly knows what he is looking at.

    I knew Contador was a huge talent before 2007. I don't think he'd have struggled to get a team. Boonen was brought to USPS by Demol

    I think there is a lot of revisionism in that article. I don't think many people would agree that Astana rode to defend Alberto's position. They might say they wanted to get Lance into 2nd place but lets be honest : 2nd place is just the first loser.

    For me, the bit about Lance nearly packing it in seemed plausible. If you take into account how terrified he seemed of crashes in the Giro it makes sense
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190
    I never could warm to the guy. clearly a successful DS but I think he should be left with the old generation and bring in new guys not affiliated with the 1990 / 2000's/
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    intothe12 wrote:
    I never could warm to the guy. clearly a successful DS but I think he should be left with the old generation and bring in new guys not affiliated with the 1990 / 2000's/

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    iainf72 wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:

    he sounds like he made good choices re team selection for the TDF. Let's not forget he took on AC before AC had proven himself, so again, like with the signing of Boonen in 2002, JB clearly knows what he is looking at.

    I knew Contador was a huge talent before 2007. I don't think he'd have struggled to get a team. Boonen was brought to USPS by Demol

    I think there is a lot of revisionism in that article. I don't think many people would agree that Astana rode to defend Alberto's position. They might say they wanted to get Lance into 2nd place but lets be honest : 2nd place is just the first loser.

    For me, the bit about Lance nearly packing it in seemed plausible. If you take into account how terrified he seemed of crashes in the Giro it makes sense

    Contador was damaged goods, both health and operation puerto links by 06 and was paid lowly in 07 so couldn't have been that in demand...so JB to be fair, signed him. TB brought in by other Belgian-JB knows who to pick to run his teams for sure...a good managers IMO.....but one imagines JB knew about TB at least. I don't like JB much, he and the whole tier from the 1990s should be gone, but it won't happen, so, fair to look at his good and bad. He has taken a strong stance on Vinokourov and Kash at least..and the other abusing the whereabouts system by the sound of it. No doubt people will say the opposite though
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?

    No Dennis. It's because Bruyneel is the result of the Saiz system. You know Saiz, he's the guy caught with a big case of cash with a doping doctor.

    Lets say you turned 40 - It's been acceptable to have a drink at lunchtime for the last 15 years and you have no interest in changing. The world move on and that drink is no longer accepted. Should you fimd something else to do?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    dennisn wrote:
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    Ah you beat me to it!

    I was about to start a thread called 'We might as well Whinge'

    FWIW I read it all and didn't see much in the way of anything unusual. Some personality conflicts. That happens to everyone. As for problems with the countries government,
    jeez, I don't doubt that in the least. Sounds to me like he went to work everyday, played the cards that were dealt to him, and made the best of an imperfect situation. To be honest I've got to believe what HE says, more or less. He was there through it all as opposed to the people who will inevitably chime in, on this subject, claiming to know all
    about everything and they weren't even close to being in the position he was in, yet they know all.

    I agree not much to see here.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?

    No Dennis. It's because Bruyneel is the result of the Saiz system. You know Saiz, he's the guy caught with a big case of cash with a doping doctor.

    Lets say you turned 40 - It's been acceptable to have a drink at lunchtime for the last 15 years and you have no interest in changing. The world move on and that drink is no longer accepted. Should you fimd something else to do?

    So what did JB do wrong this year with regard to doping issues then, for you too say that you must have something on him ? Or is this another case of Astana/JB/Lance bashing based on dislike alone which is so prevalent amongst forum members. Yourself being one of the main protagonists of course.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Moray Gub wrote:

    So what did JB do wrong this year with regard to doping issues then, for you too say that you must have something on him ? Or is this another case of Astana/JB/Lance bashing based on dislike alone.

    No. I was just trying to explain to Dennis why some people don't think Bruyneel has a place in cycling.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?

    No Dennis. It's because Bruyneel is the result of the Saiz system. You know Saiz, he's the guy caught with a big case of cash with a doping doctor.

    Lets say you turned 40 - It's been acceptable to have a drink at lunchtime for the last 15 years and you have no interest in changing. The world move on and that drink is no longer accepted. Should you fimd something else to do?
    His age is irrelevant, what is relevant is that he was a product of a questionable regime whereby doping practices were deemed not only acceptable but necessary, (Saiz was not from a cycling background, but used his knowledge of sports, physical therapy and sports medicine to great affect whereby he would use all medical advancements to improve his team) and then there is the large question mark over the performance of his riders over the last 9 years. So when I say I don’t like the guy, I mean I don’t like the stale and discoloured history associated with him. He has been a good DS in terms of number of grand tour wins, in an era where doping practices were wide spread, but going forward I would rather not have him.

    As much as I think Brailsford is a bit of a twit, I do admire his programme and methodology, although some of his coaching staff have come from teams that may or may not have "form". I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    If Bruyneel came out and said "doping is unacceptable" then I would say, ok, that’s a good start, but you have more of a chance winning the grand national riding the skeletal remains of the queen mother, than of Bruyneel saying that.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    iainf72 wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:

    So what did JB do wrong this year with regard to doping issues then, for you too say that you must have something on him ? Or is this another case of Astana/JB/Lance bashing based on dislike alone.

    No. I was just trying to explain to Dennis why some people don't think Bruyneel has a place in cycling.

    So other than a link to Saiz during his riding days what else you got on him to say that he isnt following anti doping rules and refuses to change ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    intothe12 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?


    . I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    Does David Milllar still ride for Garmin ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190
    in order to instil a sense of belief back in the racing community, those involved need to be cleaner than clean and they have to hold them to a standard higher than everyone else (their livelihoods depend on it...sponsorship etc..) They also need to admit past wrongs and come through a cleansing process. And the anti-doping charter / UCI toilet paper effort is not what I'm talking about. I’m talking about forget this sh*te about writing books “cmon lets win” or whatever..I’m talking about in depth articles with respected journalists... Messers Walsh & Kimmage case in point.

    For all of Bjarne Riis's past transgression, and Zabel for that matter, you have to admire the guys for standing up and saying, ok, I doped...blah blah...ok it’s not as if Riis hand delivered the jersey to the ASO, but very few people now talk about him in a negative way in relation to doping. He may be a nut case who drags his team through marshs in winter but not about doping. Same with Zabel, it’s like the guy has never done anything wrong. This is because they all stood up and said "mea culpa". Ok it was convenient for them all to do it as the same time as they were probably about to get outed in the German press, but Bruyneel like his charges stand behind the belief that they are the most tested athletes in histroy, never failed drug tests...blah blah... but about everyone who left his team were done for drugs within 3 years of leaving the team...

    this is not a court of law, it is the court of public opinion, and for a lot of people, he is guilty.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    intothe12 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?

    No Dennis. It's because Bruyneel is the result of the Saiz system. You know Saiz, he's the guy caught with a big case of cash with a doping doctor.

    Lets say you turned 40 - It's been acceptable to have a drink at lunchtime for the last 15 years and you have no interest in changing. The world move on and that drink is no longer accepted. Should you fimd something else to do?
    His age is irrelevant, what is relevant is that he was a product of a questionable regime whereby doping practices were deemed not only acceptable but necessary, (Saiz was not from a cycling background, but used his knowledge of sports, physical therapy and sports medicine to great affect whereby he would use all medical advancements to improve his team) and then there is the large question mark over the performance of his riders over the last 9 years. So when I say I don’t like the guy, I mean I don’t like the stale and discoloured history associated with him. He has been a good DS in terms of number of grand tour wins, in an era where doping practices were wide spread, but going forward I would rather not have him.

    As much as I think Brailsford is a bit of a twit, I do admire his programme and methodology, although some of his coaching staff have come from teams that may or may not have "form". I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    If Bruyneel came out and said "doping is unacceptable" then I would say, ok, that’s a good start, but you have more of a chance winning the grand national riding the skeletal remains of the queen mother, than of Bruyneel saying that.

    I'm a bit curious on how YOU yourself have determined that Garmin and Sky are clean as a whistle? Will you change your mind when a RUMOR or two appear on the Internet? What about when one of their riders gets busted??
    I'm of the opinion that doping is not team related. Maybe in the past it was but these days
    no one with any brains is going to tell anyone on the team that he's doping. He's not going to tell the world or anyone else about this. I'm sure there is an "underground" of people willing to provide these services as long as you've got the money but I'm also sure that
    this info is not shared, by the rider, with his employers and directors. Where your career is on the line you're going to be very secretive about these kind of dealings. Some of the riders may look upon doping as a cr*p shoot. You throw the dice and takes your chances.
    Anyway I think to blame any certain TEAM is useless and the easy way out. Teams are simply a name, made up of real people, some good, some bad, but the TEAM doesn't seek out the doctors and the drugs. Each individual does that and it's not something they shout about. OK, I know, stop, you're killing me. I can't read anymore.
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190
    Moray Gub wrote:
    intothe12 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?


    . I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    Does David Milllar still ride for Garmin ?

    C'mon, the guy was an idiot back in the day. I saw him smoking a some cigarettes in Zolder thinking he was cock of the walk after the worlds in 2002, he was a headless chicken. but he stood up admitted his wrongs, spoke with Kimmage, admitted he was a tit, now is a better more respected rider for it.

    He is riding for a guy that has admitted his record up the ventoux means nothing to him as he was juiced to kingdom come and is now all about clean long term business (that and getting locked on wine)
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190
    dennisn wrote:
    intothe12 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?

    No Dennis. It's because Bruyneel is the result of the Saiz system. You know Saiz, he's the guy caught with a big case of cash with a doping doctor.

    Lets say you turned 40 - It's been acceptable to have a drink at lunchtime for the last 15 years and you have no interest in changing. The world move on and that drink is no longer accepted. Should you fimd something else to do?
    His age is irrelevant, what is relevant is that he was a product of a questionable regime whereby doping practices were deemed not only acceptable but necessary, (Saiz was not from a cycling background, but used his knowledge of sports, physical therapy and sports medicine to great affect whereby he would use all medical advancements to improve his team) and then there is the large question mark over the performance of his riders over the last 9 years. So when I say I don’t like the guy, I mean I don’t like the stale and discoloured history associated with him. He has been a good DS in terms of number of grand tour wins, in an era where doping practices were wide spread, but going forward I would rather not have him.

    As much as I think Brailsford is a bit of a twit, I do admire his programme and methodology, although some of his coaching staff have come from teams that may or may not have "form". I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    If Bruyneel came out and said "doping is unacceptable" then I would say, ok, that’s a good start, but you have more of a chance winning the grand national riding the skeletal remains of the queen mother, than of Bruyneel saying that.

    I'm a bit curious on how YOU yourself have determined that Garmin and Sky are clean as a whistle? Will you change your mind when a RUMOR or two appear on the Internet? What about when one of their riders gets busted??
    I'm of the opinion that doping is not team related. Maybe in the past it was but these days
    no one with any brains is going to tell anyone on the team that he's doping. He's not going to tell the world or anyone else about this. I'm sure there is an "underground" of people willing to provide these services as long as you've got the money but I'm also sure that
    this info is not shared, by the rider, with his employers and directors. Where your career is on the line you're going to be very secretive about these kind of dealings. Some of the riders may look upon doping as a cr*p shoot. You throw the dice and takes your chances.
    Anyway I think to blame any certain TEAM is useless and the easy way out. Teams are simply a name, made up of real people, some good, some bad, but the TEAM doesn't seek out the doctors and the drugs. Each individual does that and it's not something they shout about. OK, I know, stop, you're killing me. I can't read anymore.

    I'm not suggesting that the teams are practicing organised doping, but they condone it by not doing anything about it.

    If you have raced on a team or with a club (I assume most of you lads have at some stage raced competitively) you are well aware when the guy you have been knocking seven shades of sh*te out of in early season races or during winter spins all of a sudden has a V12 attached to his backside. And you think to yourself, wait a minute, whats going on here? Has he (a) got laid off from work and is now training full time or (b) has he fallen on a bag of needles.

    In the same way as if you are working with someone day in day out and they are too tight to buy a toast sandwich and then all of a sudden they start arriving in to the office in Italian sports cars and Italian suits, eating fine caviar and fine wine and there is no sign of a lotto win or a dead rich uncle in the background, well then something is amiss.

    So by people not speaking up on their suspicions, they condone the act which harms them all.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    intothe12 wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    intothe12 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?


    . I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    Does David Milllar still ride for Garmin ?

    C'mon, the guy was an idiot back in the day. I saw him smoking a some cigarettes in Zolder thinking he was fool of the walk after the worlds in 2002, he was a headless chicken. but he stood up admitted his wrongs, spoke with Kimmage, admitted he was a tit, now is a better more respected rider for it.

    He is riding for a guy that has admitted his record up the ventoux means nothing to him as he was juiced to kingdom come and is now all about clean long term business (that and getting locked on wine)

    Hmmmmmm, sounds like you're almost, almost saying that people can change? Or is it only the people YOU approve of that can change? You're probably right, no one can change unless he does it YOUR way and to the criteria that YOU put forth.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    dennisn wrote:
    I'm a bit curious on how YOU yourself have determined that Garmin and Sky are clean as a whistle? Will you change your mind when a RUMOR or two appear on the Internet? .

    Yes, lets count those rumours about Garmin.

    Oh wait. There aren't any.

    As for Sky, plenty of criticism for some of their signings but I guess the threads did't say Lance in the title so escaped your attention.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    intothe12 wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    intothe12 wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:

    Just for the sake of argument let's suppose you have a job you really like and are pretty good at. So when you reach 40 or so, well, then you're just out simply because you're
    OLD and some new guy wants your job? :? :?


    . I suppose it is very difficult to have a complete break from the past, but the likes of Garmin make a good stab at it when they shout from the roof tops about clean riding. I do think Sky will be a breath of fresh air added to the clean wind started by Garmin.

    Does David Milllar still ride for Garmin ?

    C'mon, the guy was an idiot back in the day. I saw him smoking a some cigarettes in Zolder thinking he was fool of the walk after the worlds in 2002, he was a headless chicken. but he stood up admitted his wrongs, spoke with Kimmage, admitted he was a tit, now is a better more respected rider for it.

    He is riding for a guy that has admitted his record up the ventoux means nothing to him as he was juiced to kingdom come and is now all about clean long term business (that and getting locked on wine)

    Ok he spoke with Kimmage (whatever that is supposed to mean) everything is cool :roll:
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    intothe12 wrote:
    For all of Bjarne Riis's past transgression, and Zabel for that matter, you have to admire the guys for standing up and saying, ok, I doped...blah blah...ok it’s not as if Riis hand delivered the jersey to the ASO, but very few people now talk about him in a negative way in relation to doping. He may be a nut case who drags his team through marshs in winter but not about doping. Same with Zabel, it’s like the guy has never done anything wrong. This is because they all stood up and said "mea culpa". Ok it was convenient for them all to do it as the same time as they were probably about to get outed in the German press, but Bruyneel like his charges stand behind the belief that they are the most tested athletes in histroy, never failed drug tests...blah blah... but about everyone who left his team were done for drugs within 3 years of leaving the team...

    this is not a court of law, it is the court of public opinion, and for a lot of people, he is guilty.

    LOL at you using Riis and Zabel as examples of the way forward..........thats like Charles Manson calling Peter Sutcliife a murdering git !
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190
    No need to be condescending. And if you want to plat devil’s advocate, that is fine too.

    My point remains valid in that if the sport wants to present a newer, cleaner and more politically correct version of itself, then either a purge of people is necessary or an admission of past wrong doings and everyone moves forward together.

    The real crux of the problem is the differing agendas. You have guy in the top job at the UCI who is a political animal, and has been since his early days in Ireland and in the various organisations there. All he wants to do is to become the head of the Olympic committee in 10 years time. You have the tacit consent of the UCI to dope to an artificial level (50%) and you have those in power unwilling to stop the rot because too many people have too many vested interests and too much money is being made. ASO...UCI...now Bruyneel with his new money making Radioshack.

    Reform at root and branch is essential and with the non-repentant incumbents in place...well all hope is lost....well not yet I hope.
  • intothe12
    intothe12 Posts: 190

    LOL at you using Riis and Zabel as examples of the way forward..........thats like Charles Manson calling Peter Sutcliife a murdering git !


    you have to start somewhere.

    its better than them saying nothing..surely you would admit that?
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,123
    FWIW .......

    JB did a good job with Astana when he took over in 2007, and deserves credit for it. He brought together 2 different teams and had an extraordinary 2008.

    He seemed to lose the plot when LA came back though. In 2009 he seemed to be rubbing everyone up the wrong way. He has left the team no better than he found it.

    And as for his stance on Vino, I have dug this out from a year ago.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruynee ... -and-basso
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    intothe12 wrote:

    LOL at you using Riis and Zabel as examples of the way forward..........thats like Charles Manson calling Peter Sutcliife a murdering git !


    you have to start somewhere.

    its better than them saying nothing..surely you would admit that?

    Like many who post in here though you are kinda incosistent about who should be the way forward and who shouldnt.Usually its based on personal dislike as some riders/DS etc are more up to their neck in it than JB is yet still not subjected to the Atsana/Lance/JB treatment. FWIW if your condemning JB then you should be condeming Riis and arguing a way forward without him as well.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    intothe12 wrote:
    No need to be condescending. And if you want to plat devil’s advocate, that is fine too.

    My point remains valid in that if the sport wants to present a newer, cleaner and more politically correct version of itself, then either a purge of people is necessary or an admission of past wrong doings and everyone moves forward together.

    The real crux of the problem is the differing agendas. You have guy in the top job at the UCI who is a political animal, and has been since his early days in Ireland and in the various organisations there. All he wants to do is to become the head of the Olympic committee in 10 years time. You have the tacit consent of the UCI to dope to an artificial level (50%) and you have those in power unwilling to stop the rot because too many people have too many vested interests and too much money is being made. ASO...UCI...now Bruyneel with his new money making Radioshack.

    Reform at root and branch is essential and with the non-repentant incumbents in place...well all hope is lost....well not yet I hope.

    I can't help it. I've got to say it, or at least ask it. When you say purge do you mean like Hitler or Stalin? Just get rid of them all because they are ALL bad? Who gets to pick who gets "purged"? YOU? What will the guidelines be for this purging? If any? If someone hasn't "repented", and there are rumors, then he / she is therefore guilty? I know I'm being condescending but none of what you want is going to come to pass with ideas like that. For you I would say hope is lost. For the rest of us, well, we plug along riding our bikes and that's good enough(at least for me). I enjoy the racing but if you get your way
    that will definatly be the end of it. Last but not least, I sincerely hope that cycling never becomes "politically correct".
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Actually, I don't think enough credit is given to either Alain Galopin or Sean Yates for the great success of the Astana team, and in particular Contador. Yates was the DS for his Giro/Vuelta double not Bruyneel. Now, unless the DS is entirely redundant at that team and only the general manager, Bruyneel, calls the race, I'd say Bruyneel is not only rewriting history but being disrespectful to his DSes into the bargain. No wonder Yates left.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I think Gallopin was the DS, but yes, you're right
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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