BNP
Comments
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The thing I can't get around in my head is WHY people don't think showing them up as a race hate party is not enough??? This is tantamount to accepting race hate as legitimate, and its the other policy areas where they really lack legitimacy - I really don't get this, am I living in a parallel universe?????0
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Griffin has told his follwers that the way to electoral success is to fight on other policy areas and to lay down the racist elements of the party. To fight with him on these areas means that he has chosen and won the battleground. Why play into his hands? Fortunately the QT audience and panel were not suckerred in as so many others seem to have been. Don't let the Griffin ploy work!0
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L-i-T
The problem with the BNP is that fundamentally, their views aren't political as such. They merely construct political policies around a single, deeeply flawed, philosophical premise.
So, I'll happily share a beer with someone who's political views I disagree with, but not people who wear their racism like a badge of honour.0 -
alfablue wrote:The thing I can't get around in my head is WHY people don't think showing them up as a race hate party is not enough??? This is tantamount to accepting race hate as legitimate, and its the other policy areas where they really lack legitimacy - I really don't get this, am I living in a parallel universe?????
You might have been
because we've been showing them up as a race hate party for many years now but they're rapidly gaining in popularity despite it. That policy clearly isn't working we need to find something else that does.
Anti EDL demonstrations and ranting outside the BBC is counterproductive. The anti fascists are seen as just as extreme a bunch of racially one eyed nutters as the EDL. c18, NF, BNP -
The message of BNP=RACIST 'NUFF SAID isn't seen as credible by enough of the Middle Ground Middle England lot anymore.
Just because I can see that its a failing policy doesn't mean I'm accepting anything of the sort and TBH I find that comment rather offensive (I'll happily PM my experiences of the wrong end of racism if you like - I don't go back to 78 Lewisham etc but have lived as a minority in my community and have been attacked and abused cos of my skin colour)
Theres a massive number of people out there saying 'I'm not racist but.....' and legitimising voting BNP to themselves as a protest against the venal excess of Tory/Labour party politics of the last 20+ years.
You might as well say England is crap in bed and can't drive very well as say its inherantly racist to vote BNP. No one ever believes you're pointing the finger at them personally.0 -
alfablue wrote:The thing I can't get around in my head is WHY people don't think showing them up as a race hate party is not enough??? quote]
It is enough for me, and for most other decent people, but unfortunatley there are enough selfish bastards out there who (even if they're ambivalent about race/religon) would gladly sell other groups of people down the river if they think it might benefit them. When people say "Mussolini - he wasn't all bad, at least the trains ran on time" I don't think they're all joking.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:
So, I'll happily share a beer with someone who's political views I disagree with, but not people who wear their racism like a badge of honour.
+1
Its hard to have a friendly chat over a pint with someone who'd happily see you, your friends, and family deported.0 -
Obnoxious as he is, Griffin came across as no more or less intelligent than his political peers, just useless at stage management, which of course is all that Tory/NuLab are any good at.
I was a newcomer to his arguments concerning indigenous peoples and their presence on these islands since the end of the ice age. Fascinating. Apparently, it's all a huge accident being a Briton. So he won't be too fussed about a few people who accidentally wash up here in 2009.
As for his debating skills, he was handed some first rate opportunities to crucify his adversaries but failed to man up. Tory-girl Warsi by her own utterances on the show is evidently a big fan of major western democracies cherry-picking talented professionals from all round the developing world, despite their being needed far more at home than they are here. Yet, handed this nugget to prop up his immigration credentials, Griffin was unable to cash in.
He's a poor debater and his party no more than rabble-rousers - so it's hard to see where he thinks he's going. It was disappointing that the show was recorded in London as it's all to easy to bus in a load of liberal rentagobs inside the M25. Would have been better with a more varied x-section."Consider the grebe..."0 -
rally200 wrote:Always Tyred wrote:
So, I'll happily share a beer with someone who's political views I disagree with, but not people who wear their racism like a badge of honour.
+1
Its hard to have a friendly chat over a pint with someone who'd happily see you, your friends, and family deported.
Just because someone votes for a party doesn't mean they support all of their policies. The pledge to deport everyone not ethnically British is ridiculous and unworkable. However, there's a lot of sensible policies too - like no building on green belt land, not paying for the priveledge of being goverened by Europe and President Blair, no illegal wars, keeping the population under control, etc.0 -
So, you'd vote for them and take the inherrent vapid racism as collatoral?pastryboy wrote:rally200 wrote:Always Tyred wrote:
So, I'll happily share a beer with someone who's political views I disagree with, but not people who wear their racism like a badge of honour.
+1
Its hard to have a friendly chat over a pint with someone who'd happily see you, your friends, and family deported.
Just because someone votes for a party doesn't mean they support all of their policies. The pledge to deport everyone not ethnically British is ridiculous and unworkable. However, there's a lot of sensible policies too - like no building on green belt land, not paying for the priveledge of being goverened by Europe and President Blair, no illegal wars, keeping the population under control, etc.
Do you honestly believe that these people are any different than the national front? They've changed their policies outwardly with a view to hoodwinking idiot members of the public into thinking they are a halfway credible political entity. Take a brief look around Youtube and google and I think you'll have a better feel for what they really stand for.
Christ. There are other parties with good Green Belt policies if you are interested in that sort of thing. The Labour Party, Lib Dems, Greens and Tories, and possibly the Monster Raving Loony Party as well. Screaming Lord Such had more wit and intelligence than Griffen will ever have and his policies were more thought through.0 -
pastryboy wrote:However, there's a lot of sensible policies too - like no building on green belt land, not paying for the priveledge of being goverened by Europe and President Blair, no illegal wars, keeping the population under control, etc.
I'm sure Hitler had lots of "sensible" policies too.0 -
my guess is the secret to keeping the population under control..is controlling immigration
and im sure thats what pastryboy meant 0 -
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Where does most of our "immigration" come from? (Clue - its Europe)PARIS75 wrote:my guess is the secret to keeping the population under control..is controlling immigration
and im sure thats what pastryboy meant
The thing is, by virtue of the Treaty of Rome, that's not actually immigration, its migration. So, no matter what you do to immigration policy, you aren't going to solve that particular problem.0 -
Meh, IMHO Griffin is only news because we have no Obama (i.e. hope) in the opposite wings to talk about. So he is essentially a Sarah Palin loon, without the looks. Like the Palin story, he has already maxed out his vote and can only lose them from now on. The moment he thinks he is on a roll with a benign topic he gets smug and reverts to his true unelectable self. His true function will be to split the growing UKIP vote which, in turn, will eat into the Tory vote. I think we'll have a minority government ... major shade unknown.0
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Japan
I live in the UK and im bloody sure our future population stats are based around future immigration figures
Of the 10.2 million projected increase in the UK population over the
next 25 years, 55 per cent is projected natural increase (more births
than deaths) and 45 per cent is projected net migration. However,
future numbers of births and deaths are themselves partly
dependent on future migration. Taking this is taken into account, just
over two-thirds of the projected total increase in the UK population
between 2008 and 2033 is expected to be either directly or indirectly
due to future migration.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/pprojnr1009.pdf0 -
Mmm. Not too bright.PARIS75 wrote:Japan
I live in the UK and im bloody sure our future population stats are based around future immigration figures
No, future population stats are based on PAST population figures. That's the problem with those stats.
Do you have a ruler and a piece of paper to hand?
Put two dots on the paper. Line them up with the ruler. Draw a straight line. That is the extent of the "population projections". They took the last few years (which included a "boom" and a huge expansion in the region of Europe from which people are free to migrate here) and carried on the trends for 30 more years, and came up with 70 million. Oh, they also included projected life expectancy and current birth/death rates (there has been a recent blip in birth rates as well, also attributed to the "boom").
Now, if the Uk pound continues to plummet a nn d our recession rumbles on, and half of the migrants decide that, I don't know, France is a better place to be, our population might actually temporarily fall. As a consequence, the same analysis would probably predict the population in 2033 to be in the mid-50's again.
Its misleading cobbers, basically.0 -
If you'd read the predictions for the UK populaton in the news this week you'd know 2/3 of the increase is expected to be from immigration. Slowing that is one way of keeping the population within what this island and its resources can cope with - nothing to do with deportation though of course we've got plenty of illegals and foreign prisoners...
Other ways include not giving so much 'encouragement' to keep people breeding - unless you can afford to raise five kids then you shouldn't be having them. If money wasn't handed out so readily some people (that awful woman who faked the kidnap of her daughter springs to mind) might think twice before jumping into bed.
How naive are you to think that people don't know what the BNP are all about? It's hardly been kept a secret by the media has it (the BBC has made several shows about them). Everyone knows what the BNP are about and where they came from yet thousands are still voting for them despite the constant media attacks.
You can't put the BNP's recent gains down to lots of people suddenly deciding to become a racist or being unaware of what they're about. If any other party took the BNP's stance on immigration the BNP's support would collapse to the point where only the actual racists were voting for them - as was the case before Labour opened the doors to all and sundry. Fact is people are fine with voting for the BNP because it's a protest vote and they know there's not a snowflake in hell's chance they'll actually get into power.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:
Mmm. Not too bright.PARIS75 wrote:Japan
I live in the UK and im bloody sure our future population stats are based around future immigration figures
Now, if the Uk pound continues to plummet a nn d our recession rumbles on, and half of the migrants decide that, I don't know, France is a better place to be, our population might actually temporarily fall. As a consequence, the same analysis would probably predict the population in 2033 to be in the mid-50's again.
Its misleading cobbers, basically.
whos' the bright one? Please explain the attraction to immigrants for this country of ours?
go on have a guess...even you can give one thatched cottages? big ben?
Or is it our benefits system...bingo!! France will only be a better place to be as you call it when it has the same system as us.....0 -
PARIS75 wrote:Always Tyred wrote:
Mmm. Not too bright.PARIS75 wrote:Japan
I live in the UK and im bloody sure our future population stats are based around future immigration figures
Now, if the Uk pound continues to plummet a nn d our recession rumbles on, and half of the migrants decide that, I don't know, France is a better place to be, our population might actually temporarily fall. As a consequence, the same analysis would probably predict the population in 2033 to be in the mid-50's again.
Its misleading cobbers, basically.
whos' the bright one? Please explain the attraction to immigrants for this country of ours?
go on have a guess...even you can give one thatched cottages? big ben?
Or is it our benefits system...bingo!! France will only be a better place to be as you call it when it has the same system as us.....
Non-EU Immigrants to the UK are not entitled to benefits.
All immigrants I know - and I know a fair number, I employ quite a few - are here because fundamentally there are opportunities to work hard and be recognised and rewarded for working hard. They have various long term goals, some want to settle here permanently and some want to gain experience and take it back their home countries.0 -
Oh my god you are ignorant. Our benefits system is NOT clogged up with sickly or unemployed immigrants, its clogged up wiith sickly and unemployed British people. Do you actually realise that people landing on these shores, even from within the EU are, in fact, not initially eligible to use our benefits system?PARIS75 wrote:
whos' the bright one? Please explain the attraction to immigrants for this country of ours?
go on have a guess...even you can give one thatched cottages? big ben?
Or is it our benefits system...bingo!! France will only be a better place to be as you call it when it has the same system as us.....
I went abroad for 7 years right after uni and even I wasn't eligible to claim benefits when I got home.
People from the EU are migrants, not immigrants. Get that correct. They are also generally hard working, productive and pay taxes. Is it just the funny accent that bothers you?
You WANT them to be the problem, but they simply aren't an economic burden on this country. Why you are so keen to lob the blame on blameless people is something you'll have to ask yourself in a quiet moment.
Neither are assylum seekers an unreasonable burden on this country. We take our share, and policy and administrative c0ckups aside, we also reject and send home our share.
For one thing there are very few of them. Okay, so if you fill Old Trafford with assylum seekers and stand in the centre circle, it would sure look a lot, but within a population of 60 million, it is a tiny number and, quite frankly the least we can offer the world, all things considered.
What have you got against people fleeing political persecution, ethnic cleansing, famine and war anyway?
Or are you actually confusing people who are granted assylum with people who are rejected. Gee. That's pretty dumb.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:
They are also generally hard working, productive and pay taxes. Is it just the funny accent that bothers you?
You WANT them to be the problem,
The irony.
You WANT his post to be about immigrants so you can have a rant.
If you actually read what he said he didn't say anything against immigrants but about the situation that attracts them and that's down to the government.0 -
PARIS75 wrote:I live in the UK and im bloody sure our future population stats are based around future immigration figures
Well, if you want to "control" immigration you'd better vote BNP then.
When they're dragging your neighbours out of their houses because it decides they are not "british", locking up people for being gay, removing the right to vote from people who don't do national service and putting down disabled people at birth don't come running to me.0 -
pastryboy wrote:If you actually read what he said he didn't say anything against immigrants but about the situation that attracts them and that's down to the government.
I can't quite believe you're defending Nick Griffin.
He is the leader of a "politcal" party that specifically exludes people it considers not white from being members.
Read this and then if you can continue to say "he's got a point" then frankly, there's no point in discussing this any more.
http://antiracistnetwork.wordpress.com/ ... a-fascist/0 -
Sorry Pastryboy, I must have mis-read this enlightened prose before ranting.pastryboy wrote:If you'd read the predictions for the UK populaton in the news this week you'd know 2/3 of the increase is expected to be from immigration. Slowing that is one way of keeping the population within what this island and its resources can cope with - nothing to do with deportation though of course we've got plenty of illegals and foreign prisoners...
Other ways include not giving so much 'encouragement' to keep people breeding - unless you can afford to raise five kids then you shouldn't be having them. If money wasn't handed out so readily some people (that awful woman who faked the kidnap of her daughter springs to mind) might think twice before jumping into bed.
I was also, I think somewhat reasonably, tackling others' notions about assylum seekers and immigrants and the supposed burden on the benefits system, which is simply incorrect.0 -
RedJohn wrote:[
At leats the last 2.5 years, which is as long as I have been checking immigrants' right to work in the UK.
I hope you're a bit better at it than Baronness Scotland..
It may be a relatively recent thing then. It was only a few years ago we were getting mugged by 'health tourists' on the NHS and new rules had to be put in place for that.0
