Its sunday, lets have a religious debate!

mfin

Does anyone have a problem with blasphemy for example? ...I don't think twice of typing "jesus christ" or "god" on here myself, just the same as I couldn't care less when I hear a bit of swearing. I know there are some people that would like it much more if everyone conversed like we were at a perpetual georgian tea-party in life, but thank god most people don't.

Anyway does anyone on here attend their town's 'premier stand-up venue' every Sunday?

STEFANOS4784

Religion :?: :roll: :?

Tonymufc

Religion. Its a load of brainwashing crap to me. Never needed it, never wanted it. :x

mfin

They put scaffolding up around my local church this week, i think its fantastic news that they've finally got round to dismantling it but it hasn't even made the paper.

NWLondoner

Lets see religion.

Is this the story where a newly wed lady sleeps with 3 other men?

When she falls pregnant she claims it to be a virgin birth and the husband (fool) believes this. Then when word of the birth gets out the 3 men arrive as "wise" men apparently following a star


Talk about brainwashing children.

mfin

NWLondoner wrote:

Talk about brainwashing children.

That couldn't be more true, it is completely unfair and backward to teach fiction as fact to young minds. I actually find that completely offensive.

The only valid education would be to impartially teach what all the religions think and how they differ, this can show kids what a terrible history of misery and destruction that it has and does cause ...but this wouldn't take long. School assemblies etc etc are completely and utterly wrong.

But... maybe the best solution is to just have a bloody good laugh at it.

Anybody my generation will remember thinking it unfair that all the 'Jovos' didn't have to go to assemblies... if my daughter doesn't want to go to them like I didn't then I'll be out with the pen writing a letter to excuse her from it.

Tonymufc

Take a closer look at religion. Wako, 9/11, 7/7 the crusades. All in the name of religion. What a load of b******s.

mfin

Ahhh.... come on, I think only one of those was done in the name of baby jesus ...just think of his little face, in a manger. Shhhhhh.

downfader

Tonymufc wrote:

Take a closer look at religion. Wako, 9/11, 7/11 the crusades. All in the name of religion. What a load of b******s.

Or Kuwait.. Iraq and now possibly even Iran soon... all in the name of oil. Thats the other thing the world worships

mfin

I was sort of hoping we'd have a few religious types on here so we could get into the blasphemy argument... perhaps I posted when they were all in church, with their bike helmets off of course, praying for stuff they want.

downfader

mfin wrote:

I was sort of hoping we'd have a few religious types on here so we could get into the blasphemy argument... perhaps I posted when they were all in church, with their bike helmets off of course, praying for stuff they want.

Why on earth would you wish to goad them?

STEFANOS4784

Cos it's a laugh

mfin

Yeah, why not, this is a place for discussing things isn't it, if we didn't have different points of view it'd be pretty dull, in fact you wouldn't get any discussion. Its not goading... yes its obvious I think blasphemy is fine but doesn't mean you can't have a damn good clash of minds with people who might say its wrong. I bet their belief would be just as strong as mine.

penugent

Tonymufc wrote:

Religion. Its a load of brainwashing crap to me. Never needed it, never wanted it. :x

I think that that it the important point. IMO, Marx had it spot-on when he stated that religion is the opium of the people. Some people just need it - whatever floats your boat, I say!

penugent

mfin wrote:

Does anyone have a problem with blasphemy for example? ...I don't think twice of typing "jesus christ" or "god" on here myself, just the same as I couldn't care less when I hear a bit of swearing. I know there are some people that would like it much more if everyone conversed like we were at a perpetual georgian tea-party in life, but thank god most people don't.

Anyway does anyone on here attend their town's 'premier stand-up venue' every Sunday?

I have always thought that this is an interesting point. I have often had the misfortune to have to interact with people who are selfish in the extreme and almost criminal in the extent to which their behaviour puts others at risk or to great inconvenience, however, swear at them and they have a hissy fit. Some people don't understand that old saying about sticks and stones and seem to have unreal priorities.

desweller

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

Cos it's a laugh

Very adult of you.

People don't believe in these things because they're idiots. They believe in them because the concept of there being nothing after we die is a frightening one. Do you really think it's a worthwhile use of your time to belittle their beliefs?

FWIW I'm not religious in the slightest, but it does irritate me when people choose to handle the topic in such a puerile way. Religion is a fundamental part of our heritage and culture, whether you like it or not, and while many heinous atrocities have been committed in its name, many extraordinary acts of kindness and charity can also be attributed to those with great faith.

mfin

Yep, people are incredible... religious types do take their fairy stories so seriously and the balance should be found, kids find great joy in phrases like 'christ on a bike' and 'jesus on a stick' for example... religion should be made a bit of fun of with them ...cos in the end they get taught this rubbish at school and they know its complete crap at heart and its unfair to have to make them take it seriously.

mfin

DesWeller wrote:

People don't believe in these things because they're idiots. They believe in them because the concept of there being nothing after we die is a frightening one

Ahh... only if you're led to believe its a frightening one, that's just a tendency we have from not having a brain big enough to truly comprehend existence.

If you accept that your brain is not powerful enough to comprehend this stuff then you should be able to accept that its not worth making massive assumptions on the existence of supernatural beings being plausable, let alone believing its real. So, on that account, maybe these people aren't idiots no, maybe they're intelligent people who haven't got the self belief to dismiss it as the garbage that it is.

Here we go....

mfin

Also, its all crap just on the simple basis that most people believe the religion they're brought up with, but not the others. Surely that's enough to tell any rational human being that these people are not free-thinking in the slightest ...just susceptable to what they are exposed to combined with a pre-disposition to need to have an explanation for everything they can't understand.

mfin

DesWeller wrote:

Religion is a fundamental part of our heritage and culture

So was burning witches, but we grew out of that.

snailracer

Whether or not religion is "truth", it is noticeable that almost all human societies of any significant size, have a substantial religious element in their history and/or present.

Religion gave societies cold, hard-headed survival advantages over those that did not have it. Otherwise, atheistic societies would be more prominently represented throughout the world. This Darwinian-esque fact makes it difficult for me to dismiss the significance of religion in human affairs.

STEFANOS4784

DesWeller wrote:

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

Cos it's a laugh

Very adult of you..

Took longer than i thought........

finchy

snailracer wrote:

Whether or not religion is "truth", it is noticeable that almost all human societies of any significant size, have a substantial religious element in their history and/or present.

Religion gave societies cold, hard-headed survival advantages over those that did not have it. Otherwise, atheistic societies would be more prominently represented throughout the world. This Darwinian-esque fact makes it difficult for me to dismiss the significance of religion in human affairs.

In 1000 years maybe atheism will be the norm.

It's very hard to say that something has lasted x number of years/centuries/millenia, therefore that is the way for societies to gain advantages, because look how long feudalism lasted, for example - many people in the 14th century would have seen that as the unalterable natural order.

desweller

I would agree that it is not good to encourage people to believe in something for which no definitive evidence exists. It sets a bad precedent for them to handle other aspects of their lives; a certain level of scepticism is a good survival trait to have.

However, religion does provide a sense of purpose to the majority of the population. For the majority of the population to have purpose is crucial to the function of society, wouldn't you say?

So, if we are to turn away from organised religion, then how will people find purpose in their lives? This is not a rhetorical question - I would genuinely like to know how the atheistic posters on this board define their sense of purpose.

Also, religion can provide moral guidance in a way that science is not able to do by its very nature. Science has only the search for truth as its goal, it does not have a moral aspect.

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

Cos it's a laugh

Very adult of you..

Took longer than i thought........

Sorry, I was burning witches. Pesky little blighters are harder to light than you'd think. They all have fire retardant gowns these days.

tebbit

I had a religous education, but we also were taught the theory of evolution and at my Roman Catholic primary we did dinosaurs, so my religous educators had the sense to know they weren't the truth with the world being created in seven days.

The really good thing about passing O level RE is that you can argue with Jehovah's Witnesses on their on ground

Jehovah's Witness "What do you think about sex and violence on the television"

Hungover Tebb1t "Not enough of it, I'm a Jehovah's aethesist, I go to religous people's houses when their not feeling too good and tell them God doesn't exist and apologise for disturbing them."

The use of capitals for God is force of habit.

andy162

I always felt a bit sorry for Jesus. He, as we know came to a rather unfortunate end but fancy having your birthday & Christmas on the same day? That is not good for presents. I would think most people would bring one present to the party & claim it was a joint bithday/Christmas present.

Matt the Tester

i have a joke about jesus christ..

PM me if you have it since i don't wanna offend anyone.

holmeboy

If "GOD" doesn't exist how did you and I get here then? Just blinked into existance? Just asking like. :twisted:

mfin

holmeboy wrote:

If "GOD" doesn't exist how did you and I get here then? Just blinked into existance? Just asking like. :twisted:

Dont know how we got here... not stupid enough to think that any kind of fairy story is any offering of intelligent reasoning though.

Like I said earlier, the human brain isn't capable of figuring these things out rationally, most of us have trouble with a relatively complex maths question for example, and that's based on fully explained rules. So what on earth would make anyone think they could rationally draw the conclusion there's some kind of god that they have no material evidence for?

Plus, even if they did have this evidence which amounted to enough for them to believe in this stuff then surely this would pertain to one particular religion and the other religions would be just fairy stories. They can't all be right and hence the whole thing is rubbish. Utter rubbish for people who have underlying fears, superstitions and dream-like irrationalities in their behavior.

There's plenty of other types of these people, not just religious ones, just look at the queue of people blocking the tills buying scratchcards when you are desperate to get your packet of fags to go cycling with.

Back to the original question, if i asked you what 304/4.3789 was in your head chances are you'd say 'I don't know' ...sure as hell you wouldn't say some answer and stick by it just on some feeling.

guilliano

Well I got here cos my mum and dad were a bit horny once

I am an atheist (note.... not agnostic, definite atheist) but I can understand why some people would believe in a god. It offers a comfort that there is an afterlife where their loved ones continue to exist, an explaination for things that the human mind is still too small to understand and a kind of moral guidance. But as time has passed the western world (why is it called that? you can travel west and end up in the far east) has become less and less religious. Funny how as places become more consumer driven religion becomes more of a minor sector.

To the person who asked what gives an atheist focus in life...... if I have kids in the future my focus will be on bringing them up to be polite, respectful and honest and to enjoy their lives. I hope for no more than to leave people with good memories and my children with good values. People die, but in mind they are never really "gone" until they are forgotten.

mfin

guilliano wrote:

Funny how as places become more consumer driven religion becomes more of a minor sector.

Just to pick up on the above....

You could say that about anything, ...funny how since baked beans were invented religion has become more of a minor sector.