How are we going to fix the forum? (serious)

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Comments

  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Its your right to disagree thats what forums are all about seems to me the calls for moderation are all directed at those with a certain viewpoint .The problem also comes when those who decide whats acceptable dont work fairly, ive already seen it in this forum when certain posters were singled out for moderation and others were left alone for doing the same thing .Heavy handed unfair moderation kills forums stone dead, if you want the forum to be the online equivalent of your local sewing bee them moderate away,if you want an vibrant on line forum with differing opinions then leave well alone

    I agree that heavy handed unfair moderation can kill a forum stone dead. In contrast fair, well run moderation can enhance a forum breathing new life into a dying community encouraging vibrant debate amongst those with differing opinions.

    I'm not talking about different opinions (we have some great debates at times) but the sort of self-centred posting which is only designed to wreck a thread. It's like those Comedy gigs in the 80s which were infested with groups of idiots who travelled from show to show and whose sole aim was to disrupt any comedian with a non-stop barrage of heckling. Didn't give a shit about anyone else who had turned up and paid money to actually watch the comedian(s) as long as they got their personal glory by disrupting the performance. To me trolling on what should be an extremely healthy community is of the same ilk.
    @stagehopper
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    dennisn wrote:
    I don't have a problem with that idea. I guess the next question is WHO decides WHAT IS and WHAT ISN'T GOOD / BAD? A lone moderator? Would seem reasonable. Or is there another way?

    The person who starts the thread. That's why there's an empty to box to write the subject line in when you start a new thread.

    I agree with donrhummy and stagehopper. The biggest issue this forum faces right now is thread highjacking. We all saw it in the Dublin thread.

    I still don't have a solution, though. I wouldn't want to be a moderator - and self-moderation only works when everyone agrees to do it. Some chance of that...
  • meagain
    meagain Posts: 2,331
    Only skimmed this (and for various reasons - mainly I guess bcause I simply don't accept the road bike =s race bike ethos which has become ever more prevalent since back in the very early C+ Forum days (yes, I was there) - I don't often drop by any longer) but this is an old debate and the only real "answer" is:

    "Self-moderate. If you don't like something, don't contribute to it. Or put the opposing view if you feel like a debate. But try to avoid personal attacks on forum members, this is where it gets ugly, we go from a heated pub discussion to a bar brawl."

    Kleber is right.

    But Fora and their active members come and go. Some folk move on. Some get a (better) life. But there are always more readers than contributors!
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    afx237vi wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    I don't have a problem with that idea. I guess the next question is WHO decides WHAT IS and WHAT ISN'T GOOD / BAD? A lone moderator? Would seem reasonable. Or is there another way?

    The person who starts the thread. That's why there's an empty to box to write the subject line in when you start a new thread.

    I agree with donrhummy and stagehopper. The biggest issue this forum faces right now is thread highjacking. We all saw it in the Dublin thread.

    I still don't have a solution, though. I wouldn't want to be a moderator - and self-moderation only works when everyone agrees to do it. Some chance of that...

    I'm not following you. How does filling in the subject line in a new thread stop anyone from doing anything? If you get my meaning? Or am I missing something?? Or have been missing something for some time? Very possible. Or are you saying that everyone should stick to the title and not stray, in their posts, to another subject? I'm missing something here.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    dennisn wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    The person who starts the thread. That's why there's an empty to box to write the subject line in when you start a new thread.

    I agree with donrhummy and stagehopper. The biggest issue this forum faces right now is thread highjacking. We all saw it in the Dublin thread.

    I still don't have a solution, though. I wouldn't want to be a moderator - and self-moderation only works when everyone agrees to do it. Some chance of that...

    I'm not following you. How does filling in the subject line in a new thread stop anyone from doing anything? If you get my meaning? Or am I missing something?? Or have been missing something for some time? Very possible. Or are you saying that everyone should stick to the title and not stray, in their posts, to another subject? I'm missing something here.

    Yes, that is what I'm saying. People start threads in order to discuss a particular topic. And they have every right to do just that, without the discussion being derailed just a few posts in. That is exactly what is happening in certain threads. Isn't that the main problem we're discussing?

    But, like I said, whether that is a viable solution, I don't know. I doubt it. Conversations naturally wander, and I have no problem with a few jokes or a bit of in-thread banter. Someone would have to decide what constitutes a derail, and I'm certainly not volunteering for that job.
  • BikingBernie
    BikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Can't we all just admit that we post on here largely because we enjoy the cut and thrust of a bloody good argument? :wink:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
  • Richrd2205
    Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    edited August 2009
    deleted response
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Can't we all just admit that we post on here largely because we enjoy the cut and thrust of a bloody good argument? :wink:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

    I will. Only problem is we're all really bad at it. Doesn't seem like anyone has convinced another of much of anything. We are all sticking to our guns.
  • Richrd2205
    Richrd2205 Posts: 1,267
    Moray Gub wrote:

    Its your right to disagree thats what forums are all about seems to me the calls for moderation are all directed at those with a certain viewpoint .The problem also comes when those who decide whats acceptable dont work fairly, ive already seen it in this forum when certain posters singled out for moderation and others were left alone for doing the same thing .Heavy handed unfair moderation kills forums stone dead, if you want the forum to be the online equivalent of your local sewing bee them moderate away,if you want an vibrant on line forum with differing opinions then leave well alone

    Moray, because it seems to you (on really very little evidence beyond about 2 troll posts) that moderation=censorship, then we should abandon the idea?
    Really?
    C'mon, you're better than that. Any biased moderation will just accelerate the withering that this forum is experiencing. Do you seriously mean that? You're normally quite considered (if brutal) in your posts
    I'd like to see an elected, consensual ethos & moderation of that: is that bad?

    The signal to noise ratio here at the moment is about the worst of any forum I've ever used & folk are leaving in droves (these 2 facts may or may not be related).

    I kinda get scared when folk say, "that's not the answer!" rather than exploring what the answer might be

    Just now, the only relevant question is, "where are folk going?"

    I want to stay here, but there is no self-moderation, just lots of childishness....
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    dennisn wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Can't we all just admit that we post on here largely because we enjoy the cut and thrust of a bloody good argument? :wink:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

    I will. Only problem is we're all really bad at it. Doesn't seem like anyone has convinced another of much of anything. We are all sticking to our guns.

    Who doesnt like a good debate/arguement call it what you will thats what its all about. I dont come here to see bland post after post of everybody all singing from the same hymnsheet i come here to see and express differing opinions on many topics and in many threads. If a thread wanders then so what its no bad thing imo. What would be a bad thing would be afx's idea of the OP on the thread determining whats acceptable and whats not , as i said a few posts back that will kill the forum dead in its tracks.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:

    Who doesnt like a good debate/arguement call it what you will thats what its all about. I dont come here to see bland post after post of everybody all singing from the same hymnsheet i come here to see and express differing opinions on many topics and in many threads. If a thread wanders then so what its no bad thing imo. What would be a bad thing would be afx's idea of the OP on the thread determining whats acceptable and whats not , as i said a few posts back that will kill the forum dead in its tracks.

    Trouble being, that's not what happens on this forum. Certain people express the same set of opinions on the same (single) topic in several different threads. And they do it over and over again, drowning out any new discussions and scaring away new members.

    I have no problem with a thread wandering off-topic. It's just that it always wanders to the same place.

    Nor did I say that OPs should have the right to decide what is and isn't acceptable. That should be the mods' job.

    Personally I think the Dublin thread was a tipping point. People were having a pleasant conversation, new faces were showing up, and the thread just got trashed. It was beyond a joke.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,252
    afx237vi wrote:

    Personally I think the Dublin thread was a tipping point. People were having a pleasant conversation, new faces were showing up, and the thread just got trashed. It was beyond a joke.

    Surely it was the Glasgow one that got vandalized by petty prejudices. The Dublin one seems OK to me.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    RichN95 wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:

    Personally I think the Dublin thread was a tipping point. People were having a pleasant conversation, new faces were showing up, and the thread just got trashed. It was beyond a joke.

    Surely it was the Glasgow one that got vandalized by petty prejudices. The Dublin one seems OK to me.

    Doh, of course. How can I get Glasgow mixed up with Dublin?! :shock:
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,252
    afx237vi wrote:

    Doh, of course. How can I get Glasgow mixed up with Dublin?! :shock:

    I've done it myself - but that was after an awful lot of whiskey.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • richard wants a baum
    richard wants a baum Posts: 744
    Moray Gub wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Can't we all just admit that we post on here largely because we enjoy the cut and thrust of a bloody good argument? :wink:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

    I will. Only problem is we're all really bad at it. Doesn't seem like anyone has convinced another of much of anything. We are all sticking to our guns.

    Who doesnt like a good debate/arguement call it what you will thats what its all about. I dont come here to see bland post after post of everybody all singing from the same hymnsheet i come here to see and express differing opinions on many topics and in many threads. If a thread wanders then so what its no bad thing imo. What would be a bad thing would be afx's idea of the OP on the thread determining whats acceptable and whats not , as i said a few posts back that will kill the forum dead in its tracks.

    Ok im scared BB Dennis the Menace and Grumpy Moray are all agreeing :shock: WTF Iain your a genius hopefully now common ground has been found all will be right in the world. :wink:
    Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.
  • Moomaloid
    Moomaloid Posts: 2,040
    To be honest i don't think this forum is so bad, the only thing we are suffering from is a serious lack of discussion topics, but thats the way it is with no big races, and nobody willing to tell us who's signed to SKY :lol:

    There will always be childish idiots, but tend to go away if ignored. We've got the hardcore group of us, and yeah we aint gonna agree everything, god knows MG's posts can do my head in sometimes and at others i'll back him to the hilt... and as he said, topics should be allowed to wander really, thats how we all get to have good discussions.

    We just haven't had anything decent to discuss of late. Roll on the Transfer Talk!! and i can't believe i'm saying this, but the Vuelta too!
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    richard wants a baum wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    BikingBernie wrote:
    Can't we all just admit that we post on here largely because we enjoy the cut and thrust of a bloody good argument? :wink:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM

    I will. Only problem is we're all really bad at it. Doesn't seem like anyone has convinced another of much of anything. We are all sticking to our guns.

    Who doesnt like a good debate/arguement call it what you will thats what its all about. I dont come here to see bland post after post of everybody all singing from the same hymnsheet i come here to see and express differing opinions on many topics and in many threads. If a thread wanders then so what its no bad thing imo. What would be a bad thing would be afx's idea of the OP on the thread determining whats acceptable and whats not , as i said a few posts back that will kill the forum dead in its tracks.

    Ok im scared BB Dennis the Menace and Grumpy Moray are all agreeing :shock: WTF Iain your a genius hopefully now common ground has been found all will be right in the world. :wink:

    Gave me nightmares last night. All very disturbing. :wink:
  • skavanagh.bikeradar
    skavanagh.bikeradar Posts: 1,097
    There are too many people prepared to argue over everything and to never concede that they might be wrong or that someone else might have a view point. It's like being trapped in a room with a load of 14 year olds. It's no fun and all aggro. I'll be self mod-ing and avoiding this forum section. Have fun.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    [quote="skavanagh.bikeradar It's no fun and all aggro. I'll be self mod-ing and avoiding this forum section. Have fun.[/quote]

    I always get a laugh when posters to a forum somehow make a big" i wont be back drama " got news for you SB its not that important honestly.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,819
    Moomaloid wrote:
    To be honest i don't think this forum is so bad, the only thing we are suffering from is a serious lack of discussion topics, but thats the way it is with no big races, and nobody willing to tell us who's signed to SKY :lol:

    Patience, dear, patience. Tuesday is but a mite away!
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:
    There are too many people prepared to argue over everything and to never concede that they might be wrong or that someone else might have a view point. It's like being trapped in a room with a load of 14 year olds. It's no fun and all aggro. I'll be self mod-ing and avoiding this forum section. Have fun.

    Wrong? I've NEVER been wrong. And who are you calling a 14 year old? Wait till I tell my dad. :wink:
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    A few times along these lines it has been mentioned...

    This all seems very simple to me, two extra categories within 'Road' would be a great help.

    1. Lance Armstrong - one section, all the Lance threads, pro/against
    2. Doping

    Those two sections would leave Pro Race a bit less 'all over the place' and provide new places for some very commonly discussed topics.

    I can't see the need for more than one Lance section myself (ie a pro and an against section), stuff that, cos people will only walk on into the one they don't agree with to stir things up anyway. (plus BikeRadar needn't worry about having an anti-lance category ..in case they would feel it a potentially non-impartial reflection of the site)

    Oh... and (before some clever-clogs says it, followed by an emoticon to 'show their wit') there's no need to make the obvious joke that these sections 'Lance' & 'Doping' could be combined into one single category.

    EDIT : I'd call the sections 'Pro Race - Lance Armstrong' and 'Pro Race - Doping' ...that way when you view the page http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/index.php?c=4 then it would be very organised and easy to spot, you could rename 'Pro Race' to 'Pro Race - General' too ...the three would obviously appear on this index page one above the other. If BikeRadar are against this I can only see that whatever reason holds them back it would stop them from having a more organised, potentially more enjoyable, user-friendly forum, I mean, enough people have joined in with this thread haven't they? It must be an issue.
  • rockmount
    rockmount Posts: 761
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:

    Who doesnt like a good debate/arguement call it what you will thats what its all about. I dont come here to see bland post after post of everybody all singing from the same hymnsheet i come here to see and express differing opinions on many topics and in many threads. If a thread wanders then so what its no bad thing imo. What would be a bad thing would be afx's idea of the OP on the thread determining whats acceptable and whats not , as i said a few posts back that will kill the forum dead in its tracks.

    Trouble being, that's not what happens on this forum. Certain people express the same set of opinions on the same (single) topic in several different threads. And they do it over and over again, drowning out any new discussions and scaring away new members.

    I have no problem with a thread wandering off-topic. It's just that it always wanders to the same place.

    Nor did I say that OPs should have the right to decide what is and isn't acceptable. That should be the mods' job.

    Personally I think the Dublin thread was a tipping point. People were having a pleasant conversation, new faces were showing up, and the thread just got trashed. It was beyond a joke.
    I totally agree ... except for the Dublin / Glasgow thing :wink:

    ...and, like it or not Lance Armstrong is back, and is a credible contender. The suggestion that he isn't, based on his TDF performance is frankly ridiculous, however poor the racing may have been, was everyone else just not really trying ? One last point, I'm never going to believe that a bit of arse cream propelled anyone to any kind of victory, never mind the TDF, and I certainly don't need to hear it ever again thank you. ! Call me a fanboy if that makes you feel better, but' I'm a fan of many, past and present not just LA.
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • bazzargh
    bazzargh Posts: 45
    After coming back to read this forum again and finding it still filling up with the same couple of boring people repeating themselves, I wrote this greasemonkey script, to emulate my killfiles of usenet days gone by. I've removed their names from this copy of the script, and coincidentally won't notice if they reply.

    It looks for the author profile link on the left of posts and works from there. Thought I'd post this in case there's anyone else geeky enough to be using greasemonkey and also hacked off with the noise in here.
    // ==UserScript==
// @name           Squeaky Wheel remover
// @namespace      http://www.bikeradar.com/forums
// @include        http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/*
// ==/UserScript==

var text;
var user;
var link;
var tr;
var links = document.getElementsByTagName( 'a' );

for ( var i = 0; i < links.length; i++ ) {

    link = links[ i ];
    if ( !link.href.match("profile.php\\?mode=viewprofile&u=") ) continue;

    tr = link.parentNode.parentNode.parentNode; 
   // fill in with the uids of the users you want to ignore
    if (link.href.match("u=xxxx")
     || link.href.match("u=xxxxx")) {
	tr.style.display = "none";
    } else {
	text = tr.textContent;
        //ignore replies too, put their usernames here.
        // or, potentially, ignore mentions of specific pro riders.
	if ( text.indexOf( "culprit one"   ) >= 0 
	     || text.indexOf( "culprit two"   ) >= 0) {
	    tr.style.display = "none";
	}
    }
}

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