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Lance Haters

UncleFredUncleFred Posts: 227
edited August 2009 in Pro race
I've been reading all the posts on here about how much some of you hate Armstrong. I'm not even going to comment on that as it's all been said before.

But, have some perspective. Read a few pages from the Fat Cyclist blog http://www.fatcyclist.com/

Elden & his family have received a huge amount of support from the LAF during his wife's battle with cancer. They might have been able to find this support from somewhere else but they might not.

I'm not a Lance fanboy. I'm a fan of the LAF and what they do.
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  • Robmanic1Robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    frenchfighter will be along shortly to tell you how wrong you are by providing endless quotes, photographs and hear'say from his vast collection of anti-Lance propaganda.

    Enjoy :wink:
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3336802663/
  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    Shouldn't the real thanks go to all the unpaid volunteers who actually provide the support provided by the LAF?
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    No Bernie, no.

    I think you're being a tad unreasonable there don't you?

    That's not to say that the unpaid volunteers should be thanked as well of course.
  • gabriel959gabriel959 Posts: 4,227
    What kind of support? Get well soon? Got you in my prayers?

    To be honest, if I was his (Fatcyclist) situation (got a wife and kid) and that happened to me I wouldn’t want his self-indulgent egotistical help.

    Then again, I wouldn't be writting every single thing that is happening to my wife on an internet blog where everyone could read it.
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  • grantusgrantus Posts: 690
    You'll get no argument from me and, I'd like to think, any reasonably sane person but equally it annoys me when posters refer to people who have a negative view of the man as 'haters'. He is the figurehead of that organisation and I think it's a goodthing (the foundation) however I very much dislike some of his reported behaviour in the cycling world. He's is a bad role model in my opinion due to his bullying of 'weaker' individuals and to me, the people who are happy to turn a blind eye to this behaviour should ask themselves if they'd be so quick to dismiss it if it was their child being bullied by the strongest most popular kid in school?
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    gabriel959

    Different strokes for different folks though, no?

    The fact that the LAF would appear to provide support for a vast number of cancer sufferers should be cause for congratulation I would think.

    Whether you may or may not like it does not detract from this point.
  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    In my opinion it's a sad world when those ‘working in Public Relations’ are given more credit for what they do than those actually providing care for people. Even more so in the case of Lance Armstrong, given that the main beneficiary of the PR effort is Lance Armstrong himself.

    I wonder if people think that other rich figures who allow their names to be used by charitable institutions should also be given more credit for their contribution than those low-paid and volunteer workers who actually provide care?
  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    pauln99 wrote:
    The fact that the LAF would appear to provide support for a vast number of cancer sufferers should be cause for congratulation I would think.
    Yes, congratulations to those who dedicate their time to helping others, not those who dedicate their time to trying to serve their egos by bike racing, 'tweeting' and attempting to undermine rival sportsmen.
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    Biking Bernie

    You're right if those on the front line do not get the recognition they deserve but, in fairness, without the figurehead of Armstrong maybe these guys would be offering their services in the first place.

    It maybe shouldn't be forgotten that a) Armstrong has had cancer and b) was rather famous before the LAF.

    Do you really believe that Armstrong deserves no credit at all?
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    Biking Bernie

    So are you saying that if Armstrong wants to head up a charity he should *only* do this otherwise he should receive zero recognition?:

    He should not race a bike, tweet and 'undermine rival sportsmen' (sic)?

    Your suggestion that he is serving his ego is supposition. He might do these other things merely because he enjoys them. Unless you are particularly close to him I don't see how you can possibly judge his motives.
  • UncleFredUncleFred Posts: 227
    gabriel959 wrote:
    What kind of support? Get well soon? Got you in my prayers?

    The Foundation has given Fatty advice, information, arranged carers, directed them to doctors who may be able to help when others have said there was no hope.

    He and his family have certainly benefitted from the work of the foundation.

    I've been reading the blog for a long time, from way before Susan got sick, it's not always been about her illness.

    As I said before, I'm not a Lance fanboy. I don't think that it's him just running the whole thing, I know there are an army of Volunteers. I support the foundation for the good that it does for people like Elden and his family. If you've read the blog for long enough you'll know that they have really helped out Fatty and he is extremely grateful that they are there.

    I realise that there are reasons that some of you don't like him, I'm not trying to change your minds, hell I share some of those opinions, however I think the foundation does a sterling job.
  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    edited July 2009
    pauln99 wrote:
    Do you really believe that Armstrong deserves no credit at all?
    To answer that you would have to point out exactly what he does that might deserve credit!

    From what I can see his whole Tour comback, his attacks on Contador and so on, do almost nothing to help those with cancer. Surely, if the credibility of the LAF is closely associated with the credibility of LA, his recent actions must also be causing harm to the interests of the LAF?

    He is well know for his 'tweeting'. How much of his 'tweeting time' does he dedicate to educating people about cancer?

    I have read on here that he has given just 7 million dollars of his vast personal wealth the the LAF, and probably did that as part of a tax management strategy. How much credit should he be given for such effectively cost-free giving compared to the ordinary people who give money to the LAF?
  • BikingBernieBikingBernie Posts: 2,163
    UncleFred wrote:
    The Foundation has given Fatty advice
    Ultimately 'The Foundation' means the people who provide their services!

    It is also the case that if the LAF did not exist there are many other charities providing help to cancer sufferers, and many of those have a rather better record with regards their running costs and so on than does the LAF. It might even be argued that the LAF is drawing in funds that could be better spent elsewhere.
  • PokerfacePokerface Posts: 8,640
    I have read on here that he has given just 7 million dollars of his vast personal wealth the the LAF

    :roll:

    Yes - a mere $7 million of his OWN money. Pocket change to you or me.


    Make no mistake - no matter how wealthy you are - $7 million is still a lot of money.


    And that doesn't include the money the Foundation itself raises.


    But I guess unless he donates every last penny of his personal wealth to the charity - some people won't be happy.
  • GyatsoLaGyatsoLa Posts: 667
    grantus wrote:
    You'll get no argument from me and, I'd like to think, any reasonably sane person but equally it annoys me when posters refer to people who have a negative view of the man as 'haters'. He is the figurehead of that organisation and I think it's a goodthing (the foundation) however I very much dislike some of his reported behaviour in the cycling world. He's is a bad role model in my opinion due to his bullying of 'weaker' individuals and to me, the people who are happy to turn a blind eye to this behaviour should ask themselves if they'd be so quick to dismiss it if it was their child being bullied by the strongest most popular kid in school?

    I agree totally with this. While there are a few 'haters' out there, I think the great majority of people who question his sainthood (or his status as an all time great) are making reasonable points about the type of person he is, and in particular his sense of sportsmanship.

    I'm grateful to Lance, because after losing my interest in cycling in the 90's he rekindled it. I loved his first book (although over time I've become more and more skeptical about some of the things he wrote), and loved watching him ride, but there is something about the man and his behavior that leaves a bad taste in (my) mouth. I've known a few people who have met or had dealings with him - some are riders in Austin. Everything I hear about his behavior to me yells 'narcissist' and 'bully'. Yes, he is hugely generous and did good things with cancer, and I know he is genuinely liked by many people who have dealt with him on his home ground. But there is something about him that reminds me of Tony Soprano-type gangsters - showy displays of charity, steadfast loyalty to the 'inner crew', while showing no empathy at all to those who are in his way. Of course, his ruthlessness and obsessiveness is part of what made him a winner, but others can be ruthless in competition while still being 'normal' outside the arena. He has been excellent for cycling commercially, there is no doubt about that - but I think he's played a key role in robbing cycling of some of its soul - his role in the doping 'omerta' we all know about - but also his refusal to ride a full proper season, his lack of respect to some other riders... the list goes on.

    So, call me a hater if you will. I don't hate him at all, I quite admire him. I just don't what he does and I'm deeply cynical about the whole cancer saint thing. Real charity is done quietly.
  • Robmanic1Robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    ^^^^^^ I was just about to say exactly that (but would have put it better) :wink:
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3336802663/
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,317
    Robmanic1 wrote:
    ^^^^^^ I was just about to say exactly that (but would have put it better) :wink:

    Me too.
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  • Homer JHomer J Posts: 932
    You don't hate him. He just make you feel inadequate , he's everything you want to be, but never will be.
  • Stuey01Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    just 7 million dollars

    your argument didn't hold much water to begin with, but really, ffs...

    A guy wrote in to Cycling Plus this month to tell the tale of a cancer sufferer in the UK whose doctor arranged for him to have a cancer survivor phone him to give some emotional support/advice etc. The phone rings and it is Lance himself, talks to the guy and continues to phone the guy every month for the duration of his illness.

    Consider that, given the recipient of the call is a random person from the UK, not even LA's own country, then how many other people do you think he is calling on a regular basis? That is taking up a lot of his own time.
    He is not only the figurehead, he IS one of the volunteers.
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  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    The charity that hastens to proclaim its good deeds, ceases to be charity, and is only pride and ostentation.
    - William Hutton.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    BikingBernie

    You're a tough man to impress.

    Short of never riding a bike again, or pursuing any other interest, or 'wasting' any time on the internet and donating all of his time and wealth, I'm not sure what he could do to win your approval.
  • Robmanic1Robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    frenchie, where you been man? It's the second page!
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3336802663/
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,503
    Robmanic1 wrote:
    frenchie, where you been man? It's the second page!


    :lol::lol::lol:
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    frenchfighter

    "The charity that hastens to proclaim its good deeds, ceases to be charity, and is only pride and ostentation."

    Lance is using his profile as a cancer victim and international athlete to promote the foundation for a positive outcome.

    He can hardly hide his involvement can he?
  • Stuey01Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    The charity that hastens to proclaim its good deeds, ceases to be charity, and is only pride and ostentation.
    - William Hutton.

    What a complete load of pish.

    Charities proclaim their good deeds to encourage people to donate to them so they can continue to do said good deeds.

    Of course their are bad apples, but to tar all like that is ridiculous.
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur
  • jamlalajamlala Posts: 284
    Some people will always find something to complain about won't they? If they LAF was called the BikingBernie Foundation, of the (god forbid) FrenchFighterFoundation then do you think it would be half the success it is? Why do you think charities like to ally themselves with celebs? BECAUSE ITS GOOD PUBLICITY FOR THEM. Just as LA help to set this up (and I am only assuming this) don't belittle the work that they do.

    'Just 7 million' dollars? I'd like to see you work that out as a percentage of LA's wealth and then YOU to donate the same percentage of your wealth. Credit where credit is due.
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  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Ever heard of Warren Buffett? Know about the tens of billions he has donated?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • pauln99pauln99 Posts: 76
    frenchfighter

    So Lance can only win you over if he gives over the most money in the world ever?

    This is playground stuff.
  • Robmanic1Robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    frenchie hates all alpha males, ever since prison.
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3336802663/
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,365
    @robmanic - lay off the homophobia, eh?
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