Watch Out RLJ-ers...

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

If you're too scared of traffic to bother waiting at lights then why not go the whole hog and ride everywhere on the pavement. Afterall you're only going to be endangering peds, but fcuk 'em eh, as long as you're ok. :roll:

Headhuunter

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I have to say I've been stopped 2 other times and not fined....

I generally find that any situation which involves me mixed up in a bunch of traffic waiting at lights is dangerous as soon as the motor vehicles begin to accelerate, they're often more concerned about getting through the lights or turning left before the lights change again than watching out for cyclists, especially in situations where you're able to go faster and filter so are approaching from behind. If I'm able to get ahead of the traffic, into the ASL or filter up the cycle lane, I feel far safer but this is not always possible with them blocked

Perhaps I'm missing the point there, but I can't see how what you've said above justfies RLJ-ing for safety's sake...

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

So, you go right across a junction against a red rather than just sit slightly in front of the traffic? Or are you saying that you count RLJ-ing as sitting in front of the white line and that's what you're talking about?

Personally, I'm really rather assertive on a bike, if I find myself mixed up in traffic I take a lane and pretend I'm a car. I never really have any problems with being cut up etc. so I don't worry about staying in the queue at lights.

If I can sit in front of the traffic I do so, but I actually got hauled up for that once. The plod said that as I had passed out of the ASL I had broken the law, I pointed out that the ASL had been full of cars but he said that makes no difference, I have to stay in the ASL, I asked why he was not nicking car drivers in the ASL and cycle lane and he said that he had noted all their numbers, which he blatantly hadn't as his eyes had been on me from the minute he saw me!

Headhuunter

Il Principe wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

If you're too scared of traffic to bother waiting at lights then why not go the whole hog and ride everywhere on the pavement. Afterall you're only going to be endangering peds, but fcuk 'em eh, as long as you're ok. :roll:

You seem to believe that everyone who RLJs accelerates hard through every zebra, pelican, traffic light at 25+mph, scattering peds and forcing motorists to brake. This is not a war! I am not in constant battle with every other road users with a red mist over my eyes! I simply slowly roll over junctions when I can see that absolutely nothing is coming. I try to get to the front of the traffic if this is possible, if the ASL is blocked I pass out of it and get in front of that and wait there. If there are peds crossing or traffic going the other way, I wait, if not I keep going, slowly. I am not trying to "fcuk" everyone up. I repeat this isn't war....

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

You seem to believe that everyone who RLJs accelerates hard through every zebra, pelican, traffic light at 25+mph, scattering peds and forcing motorists to brake. This is not a war! I am not in constant battle with every other road users with a red mist over my eyes! I simply slowly roll over junctions when I can see that absolutely nothing is coming. I try to get to the front of the traffic if this is possible, if the ASL is blocked I pass out of it and get in front of that and wait there. If there are peds crossing or traffic going the other way, I wait, if not I keep going, slowly. I am not trying to "fcuk" everyone up. I repeat this isn't war....

No I don't, you're putting words in my mouth there fella. I could equally say that you believe all traffic is out to kill you:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

If you can't get to the ASL then just stay in with the traffic, you're not required to stop in the ASL at all and there's nothing wrong with sitting behind the vehicle in front of you. That way the car/whatever is behind you can see you and is very unlikely to ram you as it pulls away.

It's not hard really and the more cyclists that behave like traffic the more traffic will get used to and respect cyclists. Jumping lights etc improves the situation for no-one except perhaps you, and one day it may well result in your getting hurt.

I've been riding happily in London for a good few years now, never had any problems caused by waiting at a junction. I have on the other hand, had a few near misses with RLJ'ing cyclists...

Roastie

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

Funny, I don't have these issues. Suggestions:

1) MTFU and accelerate faster
2) Read a good book like Cyclecraft, and apply the defensive riding strategies within.

The situation for cycling is less than ideal and really does need improvement. One of those is improving attitudes (on both sides) and relationships .

RLJ = part of the problem. Much better to be part of the solution.

Headhuunter

Il Principe wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

You seem to believe that everyone who RLJs accelerates hard through every zebra, pelican, traffic light at 25+mph, scattering peds and forcing motorists to brake. This is not a war! I am not in constant battle with every other road users with a red mist over my eyes! I simply slowly roll over junctions when I can see that absolutely nothing is coming. I try to get to the front of the traffic if this is possible, if the ASL is blocked I pass out of it and get in front of that and wait there. If there are peds crossing or traffic going the other way, I wait, if not I keep going, slowly. I am not trying to "fcuk" everyone up. I repeat this isn't war....

No I don't, you're putting words in my mouth there fella. I could equally say that you believe all traffic is out to kill you:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

If you can't get to the ASL then just stay in with the traffic, you're not required to stop in the ASL at all and there's nothing wrong with sitting behind the vehicle in front of you. That way the car/whatever is behind you can see you and is very unlikely to ram you as it pulls away.

It's not hard really and the more cyclists that behave like traffic the more traffic will get used to and respect cyclists. Jumping lights etc improves the situation for no-one except perhaps you, and one day it may well result in your getting hurt.

I've been riding happily in London for a good few years now, never had any problems caused by waiting at a junction. I have on the other hand, had a few near misses with RLJ'ing cyclists...

I would like to stop in the ASL but it's usually impossible. I'm not saying that it's a choice of death or getting ahead of the traffic. I've been forced to wait in traffic and have been perfectly safe before, but equally I have felt very unsafe at other junctions as traffic pulls away and jostles for position, left hooks etc. I just prefer to err on the side of safety (as I see it) and get ahead of the traffic but NOT at the expense of peds. I've never had problems when I've been able to get into an ASL and get ahead of the traffic.

In an ideal world the police would enforce ASLs and in an even more ideal world there would be filter lights allowing cyclists to set off before motor traffic at some of the more complex junctions.

I've been cycling for many years now and have never had any probs RLJ-ing, if I ever go down it'll be from a left hook or some loony pulling out of a side road in front of me etc.

amnezia

jimjamyaharr wrote:

Do RLJers actually hurt anyone, apart from themselfs if they get knocked off?
y get so mad over it?

erm yeah they do, namely pedestrians and other cyclists

Headhuunter

Roastie wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

Funny, I don't have these issues. Suggestions:

1) MTFU and accelerate faster
2) Read a good book like Cyclecraft, and apply the defensive riding strategies within.

The situation for cycling is less than ideal and really does need improvement. One of those is improving attitudes (on both sides) and relationships .

RLJ = part of the problem. Much better to be part of the solution.

1) It's never a problem with acceleration, it's a problem with being left hooked or squeezed.
2) I'll look out for the book, it may be an interesting read

I RLJ because there seems to be no solution at the moment. When the powers that be sort things out I'll stop.

il_principe

You might "feel" unsafe - doesn't mean that waiting with traffic is unsafe, it's not providing you're not waiting to the left of a left turning HGV in his blind spot.
:shock:

Before this descends into acrimony I just want to say that I'm not trying to flame you here, but you must be able to see why your actions irritate those of us that don't RLJ?

Roastie

Headhuunter wrote:

1) It's never a problem with acceleration, it's a problem with being left hooked or squeezed.
2) I'll look out for the book, it may be an interesting read

I RLJ because there seems to be no solution at the moment. When the powers that be sort things out I'll stop.

1. If you're still getting left hooked and/or squeezed, you are probably not positioning yourself well. As LiT and IP have mentioned already, you ahev to just ride with the traffic as part of it. Then you'll get treated like traffic and you'll be safer.

2.

Copenhagen takes time.

cjcp

Terrible weather we've been having lately, what?

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

1) It's never a problem with acceleration, it's a problem with being left hooked or squeezed.

This is the point, If you can't wait at the front then don't wait to the side of vehicles wait in the middle so you are clearly visible in rear view mirrors etc. That way you're not gonna get left hooked etc. 99.9% of drivers aren't actively trying to hit cyclists.

Do read the book Roastie suggests. It's well worth it.

Headhuunter

Il Principe wrote:

You might "feel" unsafe - doesn't mean that waiting with traffic is unsafe, it's not providing you're not waiting to the left of a left turning HGV in his blind spot.
:shock:

Before this descends into acrimony I just want to say that I'm not trying to flame you here, but you must be able to see why your actions irritate those of us that don't RLJ?

But if you get left hooked, as I have been, it IS unsafe. It obviously is inherently unsafe to be waiting in traffic or surely there would be no reason for local authorities to spend taxpayers money constructing ASL boxes.

I don't want this to be acrimonious, I am simply trying to put my view to you all. Sh!t, I was actually hoping to put in an appearance at the Morpeth sometime, but I think you'd all lynch me now. I've been too controversial I think.... Perhaps it's safer to be anonymous.

Paulie W

I dont see what all the fuss about ASLs is. I never try to get into them and normally just settle into the traffic at red lights or junctions 2 or 3 cars back or further if filtering isnt a real option. Those cyclists who seem intent on getting to the ASL come what may often take risks to do so, much greater than the 'risk' of sitting in the traffic. I dont feel in fear for my safety and given that I make every effort not to get myself surrounded by HGVs, buses or vans I rarely feel vulnerable.

Another observation: I do see a lot of cars going through reds as it changes from amber but I dont see many examples of cars sailing through a light that has been red for a period of time whereas RLJers pretty much cross at any point in the lights cycle. In other words, as the light goes green I almost expect to see a few cars still coming across the junction as they just beat or just fail to beat the red and allow for it - still irritating mind - but with cyclists who RLJ you never know when to expect them (Spanish Inquisition etc).

greg66_tri_v2.0

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

Solutions:

(a) don't cycle
(b) take your position in the queue of traffic, and don't nip up the in/outside and push in at the front.

Headhuunter

I just want to say most of my cycling is completely uneventful. I don't get honked, shouted at by peds, cause near accidents, have to brake sharply etc etc. I've been cycling for a number of years and haven't had many problems, 2 or 3 accidents that I have had took place years ago when I was "learning the ropes". I just feel safer getting out of traffic and my RLJ-ing is victim free. I literally slow to about walking or gentle jogging pace to cross on red when literally nothing at all is coming. I don't RLJ every single junction.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Il Principe wrote:

Can't believe I've let myself get dragged into this again.

You know, I think the only thing worse than a cyclist who RLJs is one who doesn't wear a helmet. I can't think of a single reason why they shouldn't be compulsory :twisted:

Headhuunter

Greg66 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

Solutions:

(a) don't cycle
(b) take your position in the queue of traffic, and don't nip up the in/outside and push in at the front.

But I'm legally supposed to be able to "push to the front" if there is an ASL, but unfortunately it's usually blocked.

cjcp

Headhuunter wrote:

Sh!t, I was actually hoping to put in an appearance at the Morpeth sometime, but I think you'd all lynch me now. I've been too controversial I think.... Perhaps it's safer to be anonymous.

Nah, come along. The beer's very good. God, I feel like a beer.

There are some things we're not all going to agree on, so best agree to disagree is my view. RLJing is one of them. Let us unite for a moment, contemplate the fact that it's about to pee it down - no, it already is - and unite against the virus that is the scooter.

Headhuunter

cjcp wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Sh!t, I was actually hoping to put in an appearance at the Morpeth sometime, but I think you'd all lynch me now. I've been too controversial I think.... Perhaps it's safer to be anonymous.

Nah, come along. The beer's very good. God, I feel like a beer.

There are some things we're not all going to agree on, so best agree to disagree is my view. RLJing is one of them. Let us unite for a moment, contemplate the fact that it's about to pee it down - no, it already is - and unite against the virus that is the scooter.

You sound like a welcoming type of chap. Perhaps I'll meet you and the others in a few months when this has died down!

Headhuunter

Greg66 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't believe I've let myself get dragged into this again.

You know, I think the only thing worse than a cyclist who RLJs is one who doesn't wear a helmet. I can't think of a single reason why they shouldn't be compulsory :twisted:

Now not weaing a helmet - there is a victimless crime (apart from the non-helmet wearer). I do wear a helmet at all times I hasten to add....

Paulie W

It's not victimless - think about the fanilies of the helmet makers.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Headhuunter wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

Solutions:

(a) don't cycle
(b) take your position in the queue of traffic, and don't nip up the in/outside and push in at the front.

But I'm legally supposed to be able to "push to the front" if there is an ASL, but unfortunately it's usually blocked.

Ah yes, but just because you're legally allowed to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

For example, I'm legally allowed to pull some fit burd who's 17 and a tiny bit (phwoar, obviously).

But I don't think my wife would approve.

Coriander

Greg66 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't believe I've let myself get dragged into this again.

You know, I think the only thing worse than a cyclist who RLJs is one who doesn't wear a helmet. I can't think of a single reason why they shouldn't be compulsory :twisted:

You, young man, are a troublemaker.

il_principe

Headhuunter wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Sh!t, I was actually hoping to put in an appearance at the Morpeth sometime, but I think you'd all lynch me now. I've been too controversial I think.... Perhaps it's safer to be anonymous.

Nah, come along. The beer's very good. God, I feel like a beer.

There are some things we're not all going to agree on, so best agree to disagree is my view. RLJing is one of them. Let us unite for a moment, contemplate the fact that it's about to pee it down - no, it already is - and unite against the virus that is the scooter.

You sound like a welcoming type of chap. Perhaps I'll meet you and the others in a few months when this has died down!

Please do come along - despite how it may sound, we're not gonna get into a heated debate about RLJ'ing - we're normally far to busy drinking beer and admiring Greg's latest outfit.

cjcp

Headhuunter wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Sh!t, I was actually hoping to put in an appearance at the Morpeth sometime, but I think you'd all lynch me now. I've been too controversial I think.... Perhaps it's safer to be anonymous.

Nah, come along. The beer's very good. God, I feel like a beer.

There are some things we're not all going to agree on, so best agree to disagree is my view. RLJing is one of them. Let us unite for a moment, contemplate the fact that it's about to pee it down - no, it already is - and unite against the virus that is the scooter.

You sound like a welcoming type of chap. Perhaps I'll meet you and the others in a few months when this has died down!

Well, I might be there tonight - watch the Morpeth Thread.

I can vouch for the others I know on here - good chaps/chapettes. The irony is that I'm possibly the least patient of the lot of them! And I'd place a wager that my language on the bike is riper than any of theirs too.

don_don

Greg66 wrote:

Ah yes, but just because you're legally allowed to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

For example, I'm legally allowed to pull some fit burd who's 17 and a tiny bit (phwoar, obviously).

But I don't think my wife would approve.

But you didn't say you think its a bad idea though, did you?

greg66_tri_v2.0

Coriander wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Il Principe wrote:

Can't believe I've let myself get dragged into this again.

You know, I think the only thing worse than a cyclist who RLJs is one who doesn't wear a helmet. I can't think of a single reason why they shouldn't be compulsory :twisted:

You, young man, are a troublemaker.

Moi?

<wanders off, whistling tunelessly to self>

greg66_tri_v2.0

don_don wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Ah yes, but just because you're legally allowed to do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.

For example, I'm legally allowed to pull some fit burd who's 17 and a tiny bit (phwoar, obviously).

But I don't think my wife would approve.

But you didn't say you think its a bad idea though, did you?

I think that any argument with Mrs G66 over this that began with me saying "But dear, it's all just a question of perspective" would not end well.

il_principe

I'll buy a helmet when I need one, so when I buy a Cervelo.

Will I ever tire of poor Cervelo based jokes?

No.