Watch Out RLJ-ers...

Headhuunter

....If you cycle through the City, the police seem to be lying in wait for cyclists at the moment. They pretty much always hang just out of sight in a doorway near the west bound lane of Newgate, just after it crosses Old Bailey. I spotted one lurkin there this morning.

It's all so predictable, whenever they have a crack down that's the spot they hang out so it's probably advisable to check before RLJ-ing there for the time being. Of course they're not interested in mopeds, cars, white van men, lorries, buses etc etc etc sitting in the ASL box or cycle lane, it's those deadly, evil cyclists they need to crack down up.

This has been a public service announcement....

jamesco

Nice to think the cops are cracking down, but it wasn't my experience this morning. I was waiting at a red-light in the ASL at the intersection of Uxbridge & Askew roads; the first car after the ASL was a cop car with two coppers. Right in front of them three cyclists went through the red and they didn't blink an eye... would it have been treachery (as a cyclist) to give the cops a hurry-up to chase the prats down?

Headhuunter

The City Police are separate from the Met, so it may just be in the City. Personally I'd prefer them to crack down on idiots in the ASL and blocking cycle lanes but they prefer to go for the easier option...

greg66_tri_v2.0

Headhuunter wrote:

so it's probably advisable to check before RLJ-ing there

Or, indeed, not RLJ there.

Or anywhere else.

tarquin_foxglove

RLJ's to the commuting peloton are the equivalent of dopers to the pro one.

For a limited performance gain they turn public opinion against innocent & guilty alike.

I'm all for crackdowns on them.

AidanR

RLJ's to the commuting peloton are the equivalent of dopers to the pro one.

For a limited performance gain they turn public opinion against innocent & guilty alike.

I'm all for crackdowns on them.

+1

DrWorm

tarquin_foxglove wrote:

RLJ's to the commuting peloton are the equivalent of dopers to the pro one.

For a limited performance gain they turn public opinion against innocent & guilty alike.

I'm all for crackdowns on them.

Well said :thumbs up:.

biondino

A car RLJed in front of me on Kings Road earlier and the cop van on the other side of the road didn't seem to care!

amnezia

Headhuunter wrote:

....If you cycle through the City, the police seem to be lying in wait for cyclists at the moment. They pretty much always hang just out of sight in a doorway near the west bound lane of Newgate, just after it crosses Old Bailey. I spotted one lurkin there this morning.

It's all so predictable, whenever they have a crack down that's the spot they hang out so it's probably advisable to check before RLJ-ing there for the time being. Of course they're not interested in mopeds, cars, white van men, lorries, buses etc etc etc sitting in the ASL box or cycle lane, it's those deadly, evil cyclists they need to crack down up.

This has been a public service announcement....

Cyclist who jump red lights cause me a lot more problems than a moped in the ASL

Headhuunter

Exactly Biondino, I frequently see motorists RLJ-ing, not that it's a defence in itself. I've said it before and I'll say it again, getting ahead of traffic is IMO far safer than sitting mixed up in it. It's often not possible to get ahead of the traffic because the ASL or cycle lane is blocked.

I'm not talking about blasting through red lights, scattering peds as you go, I'm talking about a slow roll through. The day they enforce ASLs and set up filtered traffic lights for cyclists will be the day I stop RLJ-ing.

It kind of irks me a bit that the police seem to have resources to hang about on street corners nicking cyclists who RLJ yet they show very little interest when a bike gets nicked or when motorists drive ear clamped to a mobile phone, block an ASL etc etc. It seems purely a revenue generating exercise on a soft target.

I actually wrote a letter to the City Police asking why they stop cyclists who RLJ but not motorists blocking ASLs, in essence the reply said that they didn't believe that the sanctions imposed on motorists were fair (I think its said £60 fine and points on license vs £30 fine to a cyclist for RLJ). So the police are selectively policing cyclists only. I can copy and paste the full letter here if you like....

Porgy

Headhuunter wrote:

I actually wrote a letter to the City Police asking why they stop cyclists who RLJ but not motorists blocking ASLs, in essence the reply said that they didn't believe that the sanctions imposed on motorists were fair (I think its said £60 fine and points on license vs £30 fine to a cyclist for RLJ). So the police are selectively policing cyclists only. I can copy and paste the full letter here if you like....

May as well shut down parliament then knowing that our boys in blue are making the real decisions. :evil:

Clever Pun

if you can't spot a cop loitering near traffic lights, what else have you missed?... be careful out there suiciders

biondino

Headhuunter wrote:

Exactly Biondino, I frequently see motorists RLJ-ing, not that it's a defence in itself. I've said it before and I'll say it again, getting ahead of traffic is IMO far safer than sitting mixed up in it. It's often not possible to get ahead of the traffic because the ASL or cycle lane is blocked.

I'm not talking about blasting through red lights, scattering peds as you go, I'm talking about a slow roll through. The day they enforce ASLs and set up filtered traffic lights for cyclists will be the day I stop RLJ-ing.

It kind of irks me a bit that the police seem to have resources to hang about on street corners nicking cyclists who RLJ yet they show very little interest when a bike gets nicked or when motorists drive ear clamped to a mobile phone, block an ASL etc etc. It seems purely a revenue generating exercise on a soft target.

I actually wrote a letter to the City Police asking why they stop cyclists who RLJ but not motorists blocking ASLs, in essence the reply said that they didn't believe that the sanctions imposed on motorists were fair (I think its said £60 fine and points on license vs £30 fine to a cyclist for RLJ). So the police are selectively policing cyclists only. I can copy and paste the full letter here if you like....

My comment about cars RLJing wasn't meant to justify cyclists RLJing! I actually strongly disagree that RLJing is safer because it gets you out ahead of traffic; in practice, I reckon that cars who are obliged to accelerate away from lights slowly because there are bikes there too are much less likely to get into a pickle.

So I prefer to be in front of cars when stopped at lights, either in primary or secondary depending on the circumstances, but all the time visible to them. This way, I can more or less govern what they do once the lights change.

Aidy

I was forced to RLJ this morning.

Van swept into the side of me as the lights were turning, the resultant swerve from braking would have put me cleanly under his tyres. By the time he was past me (I think he must have just made it through on the Amber, I'd've ended up stopping well past the lights in the path of the rest of the traffic.

I do wish people wouldn't drag on about all the wrongs of RLJing as if it's the worst crime in the world. Whilst I'm aware that the majority of them are performed unnecessarily, I see plenty of worse examples of both driving and riding when I'm out.

antfly

I don`t live in London Town {thankfully} but if I did I would be glad something was being done to catch the RLJ`ers and I don`t think the police have to ask parliament every time they try to enforce the law.

Headhuunter

antfly wrote:

I don`t live in London Town {thankfully} but if I did I would be glad something was being done to catch the RLJ`ers and I don`t think the police have to ask parliament every time they try to enforce the law.

Not asking them to ask Parliament before enforcing the law but it would be nice if they could enforce ASLs, cycle lanes and other dangerous habits motorists routinely have

Aidy

antfly wrote:

I don`t live in London Town {thankfully} but if I did I would be glad something was being done to catch the RLJ`ers and I don`t think the police have to ask parliament every time they try to enforce the law.

If they're going to fine RLJers, fine. But only if they put equal effort into fining all those who stop at the ASLs.

I don't think it's really fair to fine people for RLJ when the space that's left at the front of lights for cyclists is filled with motor vehicles.

antfly

Is an ASL an advanced stopping lane, i`m guessing it is? Agreed it`s very annoying when cars are in them but I am not sure they can be punished for it, unfortunately.Perhaps someone can confirm or deny that.

Headhuunter

antfly wrote:

Is an ASL an advanced stopping lane, i`m guessing it is? Agreed it`s very annoying when cars are in them but I am not sure they can be punished for it, unfortunately.Perhaps someone can confirm or deny that.

Yes they can, it's been talked about here quite a lot. However they never are.

PinkPedal

I actually wrote a letter to the City Police asking why they stop cyclists who RLJ but not motorists blocking ASLs, in essence the reply said that they didn't believe that the sanctions imposed on motorists were fair (I think its said £60 fine and points on license vs £30 fine to a cyclist for RLJ). So the police are selectively policing cyclists only. I can copy and paste the full letter here if you like....

HH I asked the City Police the exact same question at a recent "safety event" that was held in our building and got the same answer. They asked me whether I thought it was fair on drivers and my response was "well what is more important, safety of vulnerable road users or not wanting to put points on licenses"? Funnily enough they didn't have a response for this.

I can't see any enforcement of ASL's until the penalty is changed to a straight fine.

Aidy

antfly wrote:

Is an ASL an advanced stopping lane, i`m guessing it is? Agreed it`s very annoying when cars are in them but I am not sure they can be punished for it, unfortunately.Perhaps someone can confirm or deny that.

Advance Stop Line, I think.

It's definitely illegal for motor vehicles (including motorbikes, scooters, etc.) to stop at them whilst the light is red.

FrankM

@ Headhunter

I'd be interested in seeing the full text of the response you had from the Police as the same question has occurred to me. For what it's worth, I don't think it's up to the Police to decide that they won't bother enforcing a particular offence on the basis that they think the penalty is unfair. It's their job to enforce the law - whatever that may be - and it's Parliament's (or the DfT's) job to decide what is/is not a suitable punishment.

Headhuunter

This is the text of the mail I received from the City of London Police. Notice paragraph 2, in bold....

Thanks for your e-mail, which has been passed to me for a response.

It is widely recognised that the City of London Police are the only force in London who do actually enforce legislation in relation to ASL's (drivers and cyclists) and we have done so for some time - and will continue to do so. I believe that ASL's play an important role in road safety and, as such, we enforce the law in relation to these whenever we come across transgressions. Your complaint that you have never seen a motorist stopped for breaching ASLs is a common complaint from people who are issued tickets for offences as they feel they are being singled out. I can assure you that we are not focusing attention on any particular mode of transport - just those that we witness committing offences.

I have regularly met with representatives from Transport for London, and there is a growing view that the penalty for a driver, for entering an ASL, of 3 points on the driving licence and a £60 fine is disproportionate to the actual offence, and the penalty for such is being reconsidered and may be brought in line with those of a cyclist, namely just a fine. I believe that this will result in greater enforcement activity as it may allow TfL to remotely enforce these junctions (with cameras), which will subsequently lead to greater compliance from drivers.

For your information, since July last year the City of London Police have dedicated greater resources to traffic enforcement, by challenging poor road user behaviour, and this has resulted in an increased number of fixed penalty notices issued. For instance, we get complaints from cyclists that we never prosecute drivers, however we have issued 253 tickets to drivers who do not wear seatbelts, nearly 400 tickets to those drivers who have been using mobile phones and over 50 tickets to drivers who have gone through a red traffic light (in addition to those who are prosecuted through remote camera enforcement). This is in addition to carrying out a number of enforcement operations in relation to speeding offences and Heavy Goods Vehicles.

These enforcement activities run hand in hand with a number of educational and awareness activities that we run, mainly for cyclists, to try and keep those who use the roads safe.

I am sorry if you feel that you have been singled out but I can assure you that this is not the case. I am responsible for road traffic enforcement in the City of London and my officers understand that if they witness an offence, they are to deal with it accordingly.

I am happy to discuss this further so please do not hesitate to contact me if you wish to do so.

Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

biondino

Aidy wrote:

I was forced to RLJ this morning.

Van swept into the side of me as the lights were turning, the resultant swerve from braking would have put me cleanly under his tyres. By the time he was past me (I think he must have just made it through on the Amber, I'd've ended up stopping well past the lights in the path of the rest of the traffic.

I do wish people wouldn't drag on about all the wrongs of RLJing as if it's the worst crime in the world. Whilst I'm aware that the majority of them are performed unnecessarily, I see plenty of worse examples of both driving and riding when I'm out.

Well yes, sometimes it's unavoidable and no-one would argue that you were put in an untenable situation there' The other day I rode on the pavement after a van slammed on its brakes ahead of me and the only way I could avoid hitting it was to mount the kerb (luckily there were no peds nearby). It happens, we won't go to hell. But the fundamental deal is that RLJing falls firmly on the side of wrong, rather than right. So we need to not do it as a rule.

Antfly - riding in London is fine, and IMHO safer than in most other towns. I can see why it'd be a bit intimidating at first, but professional drivers moving slowly = good, for the most part!

Headhuunter

FrankM wrote:

@ Headhunter

I'd be interested in seeing the full text of the response you had from the Police as the same question has occurred to me. For what it's worth, I don't think it's up to the Police to decide that they won't bother enforcing a particular offence on the basis that they think the penalty is unfair. It's their job to enforce the law - whatever that may be - and it's Parliament's (or the DfT's) job to decide what is/is not a suitable punishment.

Absolutely!

Aidy

Aidy wrote:

Advance Stop Line, I think.

It's definitely illegal for motor vehicles (including motorbikes, scooters, etc.) to stop at them whilst the light is red.

... and the link:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332

Rule 178.

FrankM

The ASL just by Regent's Park where you cross the Euston Road is regularly filled with motorcycles, scooters and cars. I think my biggest complaint with motorbikes and scooters is that if they sit in the ASL in front of me, their exhaust fumes go in my face.

Eau Rouge

Headhuunter wrote:

I have regularly met ...b]

Have you passed this to your MP and whatever MP(s) this force's constituency covers, reminding said MP's that it is not the Police's job to decide which laws are 'fair'. ?

Headhuunter

FrankM wrote:

The ASL just by Regent's Park where you cross the Euston Road is regularly filled with motorcycles, scooters and cars. I think my biggest complaint with motorbikes and scooters is that if they sit in the ASL in front of me, their exhaust fumes go in my face.

It's not just Regent's Park, it's absolutely EVERYWHERE!

Headhuunter

Eau Rouge wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

I have regularly met ...b]

Have you passed this to your MP and whatever MP(s) this force's constituency covers, reminding said MP's that it is not the Police's job to decide which laws are 'fair'. ?

No I haven't, I emailed them back in Jan or Feb so I'm wondering if it's a bit late now. A few people have suggested I do that though.

Aidy

Headhuunter wrote:

No I haven't, I emailed them back in Jan or Feb so I'm wondering if it's a bit late now. A few people have suggested I do that though.

I wouldn't have said it's too late at all.