Watch Out RLJ-ers...

1356

Comments

  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    Greg T wrote:
    Imagine my surprise when a thread with RLJ in the title had those too lazy to stop defending their rights against those who do!

    Will wonders never cease?

    So the guy behind the counter in the newsagent was having a sneaky fag at the weekend - in DIRECT CONTRADICTION of the smoking in the workplace ban.

    I nicked a bag of crisps and a paper - apparently that's how it works.

    As it - er - wasn't safe to wait in line.

    This actually isn't remotely a fair comparison.

    By stopping within the cycle box, the car has red light jumped.

    Is the guy behind the counter likely to complain if you also light up?
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • jimjamyaharr
    jimjamyaharr Posts: 96
    Do RLJers actually hurt anyone, apart from themselfs if they get knocked off?
    y get so mad over it?
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    jimjamyaharr wrote:
    Do RLJers actually hurt anyone, apart from themselfs if they get knocked off?
    y get so mad over it?

    er...you appear to be ignoring my post anwering your previous question.
  • tarquin_foxglove
    tarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    biondino wrote:
    antfly wrote:
    So if they scrap the points and enforce the law with cameras so that every motorist who stops in an ASL is fined then that`s got to be a good thing for everyone and there would less reason to RLJ.

    Problem is what Tarquin says above. It's not illegal to be in the ASL in those circumstances.

    It still rips me off though!

    I reckon all junctions & ASL's should be treated as 'box junctions', ie "You MUST NOT enter the junction/ASL until your exit road or lane is clear."
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    jimjamyaharr wrote:
    Do RLJers actually hurt anyone, apart from themselfs if they get knocked off?
    y get so mad over it?

    Because every time someone does it it's reinforcing negative stereotypes of 'bloody cyclists'. It's also illegal.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    Porgy wrote:
    Maybe it's the look of sheer hatred, or fear I get sometimes at ped crossings where the elderly person, or single parent with small child is wondering whether I'm going to stop to let them cross even though the lights have clearly changed int heir favour.

    But this is a completely unjust attitude.

    Just today, coming up to a zebra crossing, taxi moves straight through it, people make no attempt to move. Me, tailing the taxi, also moves through it.

    Person standing on the side swears at me - fine, but no sign of aggresion at all towards the taxi. Apparently it's fine in the public eye for motor vehicles to pick and choose which rules they follow, but not cyclists.
  • jimjamyaharr
    jimjamyaharr Posts: 96
    Porgy
    does this happen alot in london?
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Aidy wrote:
    Porgy wrote:
    Maybe it's the look of sheer hatred, or fear I get sometimes at ped crossings where the elderly person, or single parent with small child is wondering whether I'm going to stop to let them cross even though the lights have clearly changed int heir favour.

    But this is a completely unjust attitude.

    Just today, coming up to a zebra crossing, taxi moves straight through it, people make no attempt to move. Me, tailing the taxi, also moves through it.

    Person standing on the side swears at me - fine, but no sign of aggresion at all towards the taxi. Apparently it's fine in the public eye for motor vehicles to pick and choose which rules they follow, but not cyclists.

    You can hear them. The taxi probably can't. You're also unlikely to be able to kill them with a big metal box. It's cowardice, basically. Don't take it to heart.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • Aidy
    Aidy Posts: 2,015
    tarquin_foxglove wrote:
    I reckon all junctions & ASL's should be treated as 'box junctions', ie "You MUST NOT enter the junction/ASL until your exit road or lane is clear."

    They sort of are. Tarquin was using a bit of selective reading.
    Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked.

    Points to note: "MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber".
    and: "enchroaching on the marked area... if the junction ahead is blocked".[/quote]
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    Aidy wrote:
    Porgy wrote:
    Maybe it's the look of sheer hatred, or fear I get sometimes at ped crossings where the elderly person, or single parent with small child is wondering whether I'm going to stop to let them cross even though the lights have clearly changed int heir favour.

    But this is a completely unjust attitude.

    Just today, coming up to a zebra crossing, taxi moves straight through it, people make no attempt to move. Me, tailing the taxi, also moves through it.

    Person standing on the side swears at me - fine, but no sign of aggresion at all towards the taxi. Apparently it's fine in the public eye for motor vehicles to pick and choose which rules they follow, but not cyclists.

    I agree - it's unfair. On the other hand I see cyclists RLJing and pushing through crossing peds on an almost daily basis. So I can see where the hatred comes from.

    A completely bizarre thing happened today though - a pensioner thanked me for stopping at a zebra crossing today. So I;m feeling righteous. :D
  • larfingravy
    larfingravy Posts: 95
    3 penalty points for ASL using by a car is disproportionate.
    I can understand not wanting to enforce it.

    The public need greater education about their use. Years ago it would have been one of those public safety information films.
  • Porgy
    Porgy Posts: 4,525
    jimjamyaharr wrote:
    Porgy
    does this happen alot in london?

    Does what happen a lot in London? RLJing?

    Yes - I reckon it's the majority of cyclists.
  • jimjamyaharr
    jimjamyaharr Posts: 96
    Is there an exceptabal time to RLJ?
    Whats the best way to stop peopel doing it?
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    larfingravy wrote:
    3 penalty points for ASL using by a car is disproportionate.
    I can understand not wanting to enforce it.
    The public need greater education about their use. Years ago it would have been one of those public safety information films.

    But it's not up to the police to decide to enforce anything. If the police decided not to enforce basic laws against burglary for example in your area because in their view it was justified because there were a disproportionate number of poor people unable to lif themselves from poverty other than by nicking your stuff, would you be happy?
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • tarquin_foxglove
    tarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    jimjamyaharr wrote:
    Is there an acceptable time to RLJ?
    No.
    jimjamyaharr wrote:
    What's the best way to stop people doing it?
    Having a stinger stripdeployed along the white line when the lights have gone red.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    jimjamyaharr wrote:
    Is there an exceptabal time to RLJ?

    Yes


    Whats the best way to stop peopel doing it?

    Enforce safety measures like cycle lanes and ASLs that make junctions safer for cyclists
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.

    What is the situation where it's safer to jump a red light at a junction than to not?

    EDIT: you're obviously unlucky with the fines. In my RLJ-ing days, I was stopped about 4 times but never fined.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    Headhuunter wrote:
    biondino wrote:
    It's ludicrous to give points to cars for being in ASLs. I'm not surprised the cops aren't willing to.

    Again, its's not up to the cops to decide what they police. They are there to uphold the law as passed to them by Parliament.

    It's a little more compicated than that.
    They are there to uphold the law as passed to them by Parliament, as much as is allowed by the given resources, in a manner advised by the Home Office, and subject to Court rulings on how the law is to be interpreted.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.

    What is the situation where it's safer to jump a red light at a junction than to not?

    EDIT: you're obviously unlucky with the fines. In my RLJ-ing days, I was stopped about 4 times but never fined.

    I have to say I've been stopped 2 other times and not fined....

    I generally find that any situation which involves me mixed up in a bunch of traffic waiting at lights is dangerous as soon as the motor vehicles begin to accelerate, they're often more concerned about getting through the lights or turning left before the lights change again than watching out for cyclists, especially in situations where you're able to go faster and filter so are approaching from behind. If I'm able to get ahead of the traffic, into the ASL or filter up the cycle lane, I feel far safer but this is not always possible with them blocked
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Dudu
    Dudu Posts: 4,637
    Headhuunter wrote:
    ....If you cycle through the City, the police seem to be lying in wait for cyclists at the moment. .

    Good.
    ___________________________________________
    People need to be told what to do so badly they'll listen to anyone
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Eau Rouge wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    biondino wrote:
    It's ludicrous to give points to cars for being in ASLs. I'm not surprised the cops aren't willing to.

    Again, its's not up to the cops to decide what they police. They are there to uphold the law as passed to them by Parliament.

    It's a little more compicated than that.
    They are there to uphold the law as passed to them by Parliament, as much as is allowed by the given resources, in a manner advised by the Home Office, and subject to Court rulings on how the law is to be interpreted.

    But as I pointed out earlier, the mail I received (posted a couple of pages back) clearly states that this is not a question of resources but a question of the police view being that sanctions against motorists are disproportionate.
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    Headhuunter wrote:
    Eau Rouge wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    biondino wrote:
    It's ludicrous to give points to cars for being in ASLs. I'm not surprised the cops aren't willing to.

    Again, its's not up to the cops to decide what they police. They are there to uphold the law as passed to them by Parliament.

    It's a little more compicated than that.
    They are there to uphold the law as passed to them by Parliament, as much as is allowed by the given resources, in a manner advised by the Home Office, and subject to Court rulings on how the law is to be interpreted.

    But as I pointed out earlier, the mail I received (posted a couple of pages back) clearly states that this is not a question of resources but a question of the police view being that sanctions against motorists are disproportionate.

    Which I agreed was wrong, and should be sent to various MP's and maybe the Police Complaints Authority for further investigation.
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.

    What is the situation where it's safer to jump a red light at a junction than to not?

    EDIT: you're obviously unlucky with the fines. In my RLJ-ing days, I was stopped about 4 times but never fined.

    I have to say I've been stopped 2 other times and not fined....

    I generally find that any situation which involves me mixed up in a bunch of traffic waiting at lights is dangerous as soon as the motor vehicles begin to accelerate, they're often more concerned about getting through the lights or turning left before the lights change again than watching out for cyclists, especially in situations where you're able to go faster and filter so are approaching from behind. If I'm able to get ahead of the traffic, into the ASL or filter up the cycle lane, I feel far safer but this is not always possible with them blocked

    Perhaps I'm missing the point there, but I can't see how what you've said above justfies RLJ-ing for safety's sake...
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.

    What is the situation where it's safer to jump a red light at a junction than to not?

    EDIT: you're obviously unlucky with the fines. In my RLJ-ing days, I was stopped about 4 times but never fined.

    I have to say I've been stopped 2 other times and not fined....

    I generally find that any situation which involves me mixed up in a bunch of traffic waiting at lights is dangerous as soon as the motor vehicles begin to accelerate, they're often more concerned about getting through the lights or turning left before the lights change again than watching out for cyclists, especially in situations where you're able to go faster and filter so are approaching from behind. If I'm able to get ahead of the traffic, into the ASL or filter up the cycle lane, I feel far safer but this is not always possible with them blocked

    Perhaps I'm missing the point there, but I can't see how what you've said above justfies RLJ-ing for safety's sake...

    Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • lost_in_thought
    lost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    I have to say I've been stopped 2 other times and not fined....

    I generally find that any situation which involves me mixed up in a bunch of traffic waiting at lights is dangerous as soon as the motor vehicles begin to accelerate, they're often more concerned about getting through the lights or turning left before the lights change again than watching out for cyclists, especially in situations where you're able to go faster and filter so are approaching from behind. If I'm able to get ahead of the traffic, into the ASL or filter up the cycle lane, I feel far safer but this is not always possible with them blocked

    Perhaps I'm missing the point there, but I can't see how what you've said above justfies RLJ-ing for safety's sake...

    Well I prefer not to be mixed up in the melee of traffic at lights, open to left hooks, sudden swerves etc. If you prefer the cut and thrust of the traffic - go for it!

    So, you go right across a junction against a red rather than just sit slightly in front of the traffic? Or are you saying that you count RLJ-ing as sitting in front of the white line and that's what you're talking about?

    Personally, I'm really rather assertive on a bike, if I find myself mixed up in traffic I take a lane and pretend I'm a car. I never really have any problems with being cut up etc. so I don't worry about staying in the queue at lights.
    FCN 7/1
    Viner Maxima, Tifosi CK7, Giant Bowery, Old commuter.
  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.

    Oh FFS, I can't resist dammit.

    I always slow for zebras etc when I see people waiting. Often they notice me do this and wave me through. It's nice to treat your fellow road users with a little respect. Of course most peds just look amazed that I've even bothered slowing down. That in itself is a little sad really. Sometimes people even thank me for stopping, of course they shouldn't have to, but the fact that such huge numbers of London cyclists think it's ok to behave like selfish cnuts means peds have learnt not to trust us at junctions.

    I'm delighted to see the police enforcing this. RLJ'ing is basically another example of the petty anti-social behaviour/selfishness that is so prevalent in the UK these days. The old argument about getting ahead of traffic is a load of crap, you are traffic so why not wait at the lights like every other vehicle. It's not dangerous to follow the rules of the road, it's dangerous to ignore them. One day you'll get it wrong and fcuk yourself and some other poor sod up as a result. I've had a few close calls with myopic rlj'ing cyclists and the day one of them actually takes me out they'd better have the decency to take responsibility for their actions.

    Can't believe I've let myself get dragged into this again.
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    Il Principe wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    The one thing I'd like to see is perhaps signs or even an advert to point out the intended purpose of ASLs, I honestly think that many scooter/moped/motorbike riders aren't aware that they're not for them.

    Also, if car drivers realised they could end up with 3 points, I bet you they'd be a lot more careful about stopping in them.

    As for the police nabbing RLJ-ers, they rarely force them to pay an on-the-spot fine, it's usually a warning, and I applaud it.

    If, however, they catch the same person the next day, they'll fine them. I also think this is a good thing.

    What's more, saying that you'll break the law because others do it too with the same or different laws is idiotic. This tit-for-tat attitude is getting nobody anywhere.

    They DO fine people. I have been fined once and I've seen others stopped and fined in similar revenue generation exercises er, I mean enforcement of the law... Tit for tat is one thing but I'm afraid if I can get out of danger at junctions I will do.

    Oh FFS, I can't resist dammit.

    I always slow for zebras etc when I see people waiting. Often they notice me do this and wave me through. It's nice to treat your fellow road users with a little respect. Of course most peds just look amazed that I've even bothered slowing down. That in itself is a little sad really. Sometimes people even thank me for stopping, of course they shouldn't have to, but the fact that such huge numbers of London cyclists think it's ok to behave like selfish cnuts means peds have learnt not to trust us at junctions.

    I'm delighted to see the police enforcing this. RLJ'ing is basically another example of the petty anti-social behaviour/selfishness that is so prevalent in the UK these days. The old argument about getting ahead of traffic is a load of crap, you are traffic so why not wait at the lights like every other vehicle. It's not dangerous to follow the rules of the road, it's dangerous to ignore them. One day you'll get it wrong and fcuk yourself and some other poor sod up as a result. I've had a few close calls with myopic rlj'ing cyclists and the day one of them actually takes me out they'd better have the decency to take responsibility for their actions.



    +1
  • Greg T
    Greg T Posts: 3,266
    lost_in_thought wrote:
    Perhaps I'm missing the point there, but I can't see how what you've said above justfies RLJ-ing for safety's sake...

    A combination of being lazy and mildly delayed can be fatal in certain circumstances - like waiting at lights.

    It's been proved in clinical trials that lazy people who put their foot down at lights may well suffer fatal prolapses of their entitlement glands.

    It's safer for them not to - obvious see.
    Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.

    What would Thora Hurd do?

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