Stage 4 - Team Time Trial SPOILER

dennisn

frenchfighter wrote:

Dennisn:

Last 6k of Astana's ride:
http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube ... OynI&w=560

Last 2k of Saxo:
http://www.steephill.tv/players/youtube ... 42iY&w=560

VDB crash:
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozon ... s/1.559007

Thanks again

jackhammer111 - banned

2. ARMSTRONG Lance 22 ASTANA 10h 38' 07" + 00' 00"
3. CONTADOR Alberto 21 ASTANA 10h 38' 26" + 00' 19"
4. KLÖDEN Andréas 23 ASTANA 10h 38' 30" + 00' 23"
5. LEIPHEIMER Lev i 24 ASTANA 10h 38' 38" + 00' 31"
12. VANDE VELDE Chris 51 GARMIN 10h 39' 23" + 01' 16"
20. SCHLECK Andy 31 SAXO 10h 39' 48" + 01' 41"
29. SASTRE Carlos 1 CERVELO 10h 40' 51" + 02' 44
35. EVANS Cadel 11 SILENCE - 10h 41' 06" + 02' 59"
72. MENCHOV Denis 41 RABOBANK 10h 41' 59" + 03' 52"

Anybody else matter?

dennisn

jackhammer111 wrote:

2. ARMSTRONG Lance 22 ASTANA 10h 38' 07" + 00' 00"
3. CONTADOR Alberto 21 ASTANA 10h 38' 26" + 00' 19"
4. KLÖDEN Andréas 23 ASTANA 10h 38' 30" + 00' 23"
5. LEIPHEIMER Lev i 24 ASTANA 10h 38' 38" + 00' 31"
12. VANDE VELDE Chris 51 GARMIN 10h 39' 23" + 01' 16"
20. SCHLECK Andy 31 SAXO 10h 39' 48" + 01' 41"
29. SASTRE Carlos 1 CERVELO 10h 40' 51" + 02' 44
35. EVANS Cadel 11 SILENCE - 10h 41' 06" + 02' 59"
72. MENCHOV Denis 41 RABOBANK 10h 41' 59" + 03' 52"

Anybody else matter?

Oh the possibilities.

Jez mon

Top_Bhoy wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

I have to say, feel sorry for Cadel today, this is the issue with TTTs, they can be very harsh to riders without good teams.

Agreed. The old time limiting rule was crap, but maybe 39 km is still too long. The Giro and Vuelta have it right... 20 kilometres or thereabouts is the right distance. Still makes a selection, but doesn't put anyone out of contention.

Great to watch but a TTT only benefits the big budget teams and needs to be scrapped. It wouldn't be my preference but a crit would be preferable to a TTT if some localised event is required.

Have to disagree Top_Bhoy, a crit would benefit no one, we saw what happened with the "crit" during this years, Giro. It doesn't work, a crit could easily take out top riders with crashes, considering how big the size of a peleton a tight crit might not be sensible.


I think afx has got it right, a shorter TTT would allow a bit of a sort out, without unfairly penalising Cadel Evans and the suchlike.

donrhummy

Did anyone notice that Lance got huge cheers when introduced to the Franch crowd? Wow have things changed in 4 years!

Kléber

He has always been popular, it's just there is a section of the population that doesn't like him. It's silly to look at it as everyone loving or hating him, in France just like anywhere else he is a divisive figure where opinions vary.

Kléber

Jez mon wrote:

Great to watch but a TTT only benefits the big budget teams and needs to be scrapped. It wouldn't be my preference but a crit would be preferable to a TTT if some localised event is required.

I disagree. The course was short and if the likes of Evans lost time, that's because they and their team didn't pay attention and plan for this. The team were crashing and losing riders, watching them drop and then wait for Johan Van Summeren was painful. They prepared for the TTT by renting the Zolder motor racing circuit, known for its gentle undulations, hardly ideal work for a twisty and hilly time trial. They didn't work effectively as a team and as a result, they lost out.

It might mean that some of the climbers have lost time but all the more reason for them to go on the attack in the mountains, especially since there is only one 40km TT left in the whole race, and that comes after 2 weeks of racing, when recovery matters as much as being a good rider against the clock.

It's not over for Sastre or Evans but they ought to have planned better to save a bit more time. Cervelo in particular better get Hushovd or Haussler to bag a stage win because they have brought Roulston and others too for the sprints.

jackhammer111 - banned

donrhummy wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

PeteinSQ wrote:

I see Alberto wasn't there to give Lance a hug.

Wrong! Hi five and a hug.

No, I believe you might be incorrect here. Are you sure you saw Contador (in his Spain colors, NOT in the Astana colors) hugging Lance? I didn't and i watched the hug/high-fives 4 times.

I stand slightly corrected.. high 5, no hug, right before AC steps onto the bus.

This is a big dog situation and they are both huge dogs. Don't expect them to be all fun and games during the race. Neither will give the other the slightest sign of weakness or submission until it's clear who is stronger in the mountains. If this is truly AC's time, he's going to have to earn it.

I'm only rooting for lance to stick it to the ones that hate him beyond any reason.

mididoctors

Kléber wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Great to watch but a TTT only benefits the big budget teams and needs to be scrapped. It wouldn't be my preference but a crit would be preferable to a TTT if some localised event is required.

I disagree. The course was short and if the likes of Evans lost time, that's because they and their team didn't pay attention and plan for this. The team were crashing and losing riders, watching them drop and then wait for Johan Van Summeren was painful. They prepared for the TTT by renting the Zolder motor racing circuit, known for its gentle undulations, hardly ideal work for a twisty and hilly time trial. They didn't work effectively as a team and as a result, they lost out.

It might mean that some of the climbers have lost time but all the more reason for them to go on the attack in the mountains, especially since there is only one 40km TT left in the whole race, and that comes after 2 weeks of racing, when recovery matters as much as being a good rider against the clock.

It's not over for Sastre or Evans but they ought to have planned better to save a bit more time. Cervelo in particular better get Hushovd or Haussler to bag a stage win because they have brought Roulston and others too for the sprints.

I'm sort of on the same page here

this race isn't over

Quite Frankly

Lance's tweets on today's stage:

''Boo-YA!!!''

''Well, what can I say? The team was simply awesome today. Consistent, fluid, mistake-free. We love this event (TTT) and are stoked to win.''

''I thought the course was tough but proved to be 2x. Ouch. Popo and Klodi were on fire.''

''And they might need to repair the pavement on the sections where Alberto was pulling. All in all, great day.''

''Headline for us - important to gain time on our rivals which we did. More wind tomorrow..''


You see, they love each other really.

dennisn

jackhammer111 wrote:

donrhummy wrote:

jackhammer111 wrote:

PeteinSQ wrote:

I see Alberto wasn't there to give Lance a hug.

Wrong! Hi five and a hug.

No, I believe you might be incorrect here. Are you sure you saw Contador (in his Spain colors, NOT in the Astana colors) hugging Lance? I didn't and i watched the hug/high-fives 4 times.

I stand slightly corrected.. high 5, no hug, right before AC steps onto the bus.

This is a big dog situation and they are both huge dogs. Don't expect them to be all fun and games during the race. Neither will give the other the slightest sign of weakness or submission until it's clear who is stronger in the mountains. If this is truly AC's time, he's going to have to earn it.

I'm only rooting for lance to stick it to the ones that hate him beyond any reason.

I had 2 big dogs once(Newfoundlands) and they weren't threatened by anything. Mellowest dogs around. It's the small dogs that always seem to be on edge and trying to prove something.

Fastlad

Quote of the day for me......LA. "Contador came here to win...and quite frankly, so did i. 8)

Looks like the nerves and the doubts have left Lance and his confidence is sky high. He looks as happy as a dog with two dicks!!

GroupOfOne MkII

Not sure if anyone else has commented on it/noticed it, but on the ITV highlights they interviewed Millar after Garmin's ride, and said commiserations on not winning the stage.

It seemed to me they'd done the interview after Astana had beaten their time, but put it before they showed Astana winning, thus essentially taking some of the 'drama' out of would anyone beat Garmin. Doesn't really matter, but not terribly professional I thought.

JC.152

as well with itv tonight they had only about 4 teams left to show at 7.05 by quikly shooting through most of others

FJS

mididoctors wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

Great to watch but a TTT only benefits the big budget teams and needs to be scrapped. It wouldn't be my preference but a crit would be preferable to a TTT if some localised event is required.

I disagree. The course was short and if the likes of Evans lost time, that's because they and their team didn't pay attention and plan for this. The team were crashing and losing riders, watching them drop and then wait for Johan Van Summeren was painful. They prepared for the TTT by renting the Zolder motor racing circuit, known for its gentle undulations, hardly ideal work for a twisty and hilly time trial. They didn't work effectively as a team and as a result, they lost out.

It might mean that some of the climbers have lost time but all the more reason for them to go on the attack in the mountains, especially since there is only one 40km TT left in the whole race, and that comes after 2 weeks of racing, when recovery matters as much as being a good rider against the clock.

It's not over for Sastre or Evans but they ought to have planned better to save a bit more time. Cervelo in particular better get Hushovd or Haussler to bag a stage win because they have brought Roulston and others too for the sprints.

I'm sort of on the same page here

this race isn't over

I agree, the TTT is a beautiful specialism, and what seem like enormous gaps now can be corrected in the coming weeks, inviting attacks.

But, I agree that this particular route was in places very dangeours, and so many crashes doesn't do the race any good

What I would prefer is a (not so very technical) TTT of about 20-30 km, with on the same day a normal stage of about 100 km, like in the early 1990s. Those two-stage-days require their own tactics, give soome spice to the first week, spread the GC out a bit, without risk of unbridgable gaps.

afx237vi

FJS wrote:

What I would prefer is a (not so very technical) TTT of about 20-30 km, with on the same day a normal stage of about 100 km, like in the early 1990s. Those two-stage-days require their own tactics, give soome spice to the first week, spread the GC out a bit, without risk of unbridgable gaps.

Nice idea, but split-stages are now banned in grand tours. The 2006 Giro originally planned a mountain TT, then the Milano crit on the final day, but the UCI put the kibosh on it. Spoilsports!

dave milne

Kléber wrote:

He has always been popular, it's just there is a section of the population that doesn't like him. It's silly to look at it as everyone loving or hating him, in France just like anywhere else he is a divisive figure where opinions vary.

did the marmotte at the weekend. there was some guy in full us postal kit and a early 2000 era shiny metallic french bike. I was amazed when I heard him to speak to realise he is french. Didn't realise anyone in france loves him that much.

Eurostar

FJS wrote:

so many crashes doesn't do the race any good

I bet more people crash on a typical flat stage. There are little pile-ups in the bunch every day, but we don't see many of them on the telly.

FJS

afx237vi wrote:

FJS wrote:

What I would prefer is a (not so very technical) TTT of about 20-30 km, with on the same day a normal stage of about 100 km, like in the early 1990s. Those two-stage-days require their own tactics, give soome spice to the first week, spread the GC out a bit, without risk of unbridgable gaps.

Nice idea, but split-stages are now banned in grand tours. The 2006 Giro originally planned a mountain TT, then the Milano crit on the final day, but the UCI put the kibosh on it. Spoilsports!

You're right, but one can dream
Wasn't it the riders' union that pushed for that ban?

FJS

Eurostar wrote:

FJS wrote:

so many crashes doesn't do the race any good

I bet more people crash on a typical flat stage. There are little pile-ups in the bunch every day, but we don't see many of them on the telly.

Not really. There are daily crashes, but not as common as that, although they are more dangerous in a peloton than a TT.
But what matters is that there isn't such a concentration of crashes in a few kilometers, and in so decisive for the GC, in most flat stages.

afx237vi

FJS wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

FJS wrote:

What I would prefer is a (not so very technical) TTT of about 20-30 km, with on the same day a normal stage of about 100 km, like in the early 1990s. Those two-stage-days require their own tactics, give soome spice to the first week, spread the GC out a bit, without risk of unbridgable gaps.

Nice idea, but split-stages are now banned in grand tours. The 2006 Giro originally planned a mountain TT, then the Milano crit on the final day, but the UCI put the kibosh on it. Spoilsports!

You're right, but one can dream
Wasn't it the riders' union that pushed for that ban?

Yes, with Jens Voigt leading the wails the cycling is getting too hard. Jens Voigt!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/voigt-r ... alf-stages

Strange days.

edhornby

If they want a TTT then why not give out big cash prize, points and leave the times out of the individual GCs ?

Philip S

GroupOfOne MkII wrote:

Not sure if anyone else has commented on it/noticed it, but on the ITV highlights they interviewed Millar after Garmin's ride, and said commiserations on not winning the stage.

It seemed to me they'd done the interview after Astana had beaten their time, but put it before they showed Astana winning, thus essentially taking some of the 'drama' out of would anyone beat Garmin. Doesn't really matter, but not terribly professional I thought.

I don't think so - they got to Millar just as he was taking his helmet off. Now, maybe Garmin have got some crazy recovery technique that involves riders keeping their sweaty helmets on for 20 minutes or so after they finish, but I would imagine that this was shortly after he's crossed the line and the team had told him that Astana were going like a train and well up on Garmin's splits...

moray_gub

greeny12 wrote:

So, realistically, of the main 'contenders':

Evans gone
Menchov gone
Sastre got mountain to climb (literally)
Schlecks struggling
Kreuziger just about still there
VDV not at races after Giro crash

Astana benefit from here on in. Thank goodness for the Lance/Contador rivalry otherwise the next couple of weeks would be dull as dishwater.

TTT was exciting, but it's killed the race as an open contest.

+1 i said before i dislike TTTs becuase it distorts the GC race and the evidence is there for all to see. The race is now dead as a contest imo Alberto (unless he bonks) with his climbing and TT skills will skoosh this now.

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Or it means that Astana will set a train in the mountains inhibiting all attacks until they launch Conatdor/Armstrong in the last 3 kms. Normal service has been resumed :roll:

maybe not you may be miles off the mark like you were yesterday with this cracker

"And Astana are going to ride as a perfectly unified team tomorrow after that little display?"

top_bhoy

Jez mon wrote:

Have to disagree Top_Bhoy, a crit would benefit no one, we saw what happened with the "crit" during this years, Giro. It doesn't work, a crit could easily take out top riders with crashes, considering how big the size of a peloton a tight crit might not be sensible.

I think afx has got it right, a shorter TTT would allow a bit of a sort out, without unfairly penalising Cadel Evans and the suchlike.

Don't disagree with the crit not really being a suitable alternative - but still maintain a TTT is wrong. Never agreed with a TTT as an input into a competition where the individual winner is the most prestigious and top prize. It only skews individuals results.and benefits the biggest/richest teams.

Jez mon

edhornby wrote:

If they want a TTT then why not give out big cash prize, points and leave the times out of the individual GCs ?

What would that achieve exactly? it would be a day off for many GC guys as they would want an extra day off as GC would always be the most important prize. The points on offer might make the sprinters teams constest, and the prize money would mean teams like Garmin would still compete for it, but I can't see Astana pass up the opportunity for an extra rest day.

No, if the ASO want the TTT to remain, they have to keep to this format, otherwise it gets pointless, dull and confusing for the average fan. What ASO should take a greater look at, is the course, 40 minutes of TTing seems too long.

Bugly

Jez mon wrote:

Have to disagree Top_Bhoy, a crit would benefit no one, we saw what happened with the "crit" during this years, Giro. It doesn't work, a crit could easily take out top riders with crashes, considering how big the size of a peloton a tight crit might not be sensible.


I think afx has got it right, a shorter TTT would allow a bit of a sort out, without unfairly penalising Cadel Evans and the suchlike.

A crit with 180 riders would be a circus - the TTT to me was a perfect length it rewarded the strong teams (as do most stages) and punished the inept teams but the shorter length of the stage limited the time losses. Fantastic stage win to Astana.

don key

I actually heard or read a report that he was sharing the lead with Strongarms tictacs. Some news agencies have not the Faust clue. To be positioned where I am eggeing on Chancelled Tara is oddifying indeed. Well done men, Will he still lead when they get to Parrots Trance.
I been Jackson fived all evening , very inspiring, they lead most of the way.

Seventeen pucking fages about a bled in time trial, has any one been convicted and transported to the nearest podium.????????????

jackhammer111 - banned

http://player.sbs.com.au/tdf#/tdf_08/in ... countback/

lance says "i may not be strong enough to win"